Underinvestment in Players

shelfboy68

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mentally strong, and mentally shattered are 2 big differences. if you are totally shattered your work will drop a level and mistakes will happen. we have literally been playing twice a week for 2 seasons, and not really had the summer off. with the injuries we have had on top of that, a lot of the squad have played with niggly injuries, or when out on their feet. we needed refreshing in the summer, but had to sell to consider it
If we want to be considered a big club then we need to develop a big club mentality and get used to playing 2 game's a week.
 

ohh Teddy Teddy

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Jan 27, 2011
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Apparently the money was there to spend, Poch has to shoulder a lot of the blame for his stubbornness in the transfer market. He’s worked these players into the ground and It’s really starting to show.

I was happy to give the benefit of the doubt after both the summer and winter windows, but it’s really beginning to show that the lack of activity has cost us this year.

The squad now needs major surgery come the summer and we likely won’t have CL to attract players.
We've had CL for 3 seasons now and I wouldn't say we've attracted any of our signings from it to be honest.
 

rabbikeane

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Mar 29, 2005
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This.
A couple of years ago, some blokes tried to organise a 'Levy out' protest outside the ground, I laughed and took the piss because the turnout was 2, and it looked pretty daft.
But at least these two fellas had the bollocks to actually do something about what they believed in.
As did Jeffrey Dahmer
 

Lighty64

PC huh what a joke, avatar changed
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they have near on spent in that time the amount on players than we have on building a stadium, plus sold the best player at the time. we have only had 1 season where our crowd size has matched theirs. we are a million miles behind them in sponsorships and merchandise because they have been a massive club since the 70's. their now owners picked them up cheap at a time a lot more money is in the game which has allowed them to invest.
@johnweldon10@hotmail.com

since Klopp took over he has spent just short of ½ a billion

Coutinho made them click and scored important goals

we have had 1 season where our crowd has been bigger than theirs, last season at Wembley. this season the majority have been under 50k

they have been a big club since the 70's and have been selling merchandise world wide for most of that time. go to anywhere in the world and ask someone if they have heard of both us or them, and in some places they will say "we have heard of Liverpool", and if they don't own a Liverpool shirt it will be 1 of the other 5.

their owners picked up the club off the bank as the previous owners got in the shit, at a time when TV money has gone through the roof.

we might be catching them up in the money list, but they have been way ahead of us for decades, and football finances didn't start the 1 season we made a decent profit, something we will only make up this season if we reach the semi's or the final.

and after all that Klopp still hasn't won anything yet, and no guarantee they will overturn Man C this season.
 

Lighty64

PC huh what a joke, avatar changed
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If we want to be considered a big club then we need to develop a big club mentality and get used to playing 2 game's a week.
I agree you also need to have the luck in injuries.

please tell me how many times we have been able to field our best 11, with our strongest 7 sat on the bench. at a guess I'd say not once all season.

we never bought anyone in the summer and I agree we needed to, but we also had to sell too and the only players we wanted to sell of any value, are players that have held us together this season, the others had injury issues. we are not big enough yet to be able to pay 3 or 4 players money for sitting at home and no use to the club. in the 10 years we have been preparing the stadium and training facilities we haven't been bring in massive profits.

to compete with the big boys you need a big stadium, and bringing in the same kind of money they do.
 

shelfboy68

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I agree you also need to have the luck in injuries.

please tell me how many times we have been able to field our best 11, with our strongest 7 sat on the bench. at a guess I'd say not once all season.

we never bought anyone in the summer and I agree we needed to, but we also had to sell too and the only players we wanted to sell of any value, are players that have held us together this season, the others had injury issues. we are not big enough yet to be able to pay 3 or 4 players money for sitting at home and no use to the club. in the 10 years we have been preparing the stadium and training facilities we haven't been bring in massive profits.

to compete with the big boys you need a big stadium, and bringing in the same kind of money they do.
Maybe I'm being a tad harsh but I think over the last 3/4 seasons we have had enough to have won something , but as we have seen three semi finals we have just not done enough or strange tactics have cost us.
This year the poor decision not to invest has cost us when the squad has needed rotating or player's needing dropping due to poor form etc, it seems the club is slipping back again before it can go forward means we have some catching up to do.
 

THFC_SWE

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Aug 31, 2012
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I think missing the CL + no signings will cost us more than if we signed 1-2 players and qualified for the CL.

It's not over yet, but it's not looking good.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
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Oct 17, 2006
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8,214
Just going round in a circles and putting £ at front of every decision is costing us time and again.

1st team should come first not cheese rooms.

We all warned we needed players in the summer - we were not asking for Messi - we would have been happy with Grealish ffs.

It’s just boring now this constant underinvestment in the team.

This lies firmly at both Poch and Levy
Good knee jerk. Not investing in players did not cause us to lose against Watford, Burnley and Southampton. Complacency, arrogance and poor game management cost us 11 points in the last 4 Premiership games, not lack of investment. The players we have more than proved they can win games against any club side in Europe so this knee jerk argument about throwing money will not solve the problems until they are addressed, or else new players will more than likely to adopt these bad habits
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
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Did they improve our squad?

Just squad fillers for me.
Maybe with Moura but not Sanchez who did improve our squad and will be a main CB for the long term, far more than just a squad filler.
 

jeremystorey

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Jan 23, 2011
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I don’t think I’m quite ready to agree we’ve squandered the momentum we had. Not yet. Much will depend on this summer. Should the likes of Dele and Kane agitate for a move, we lose Poch and bring in minimal reinforcements then yes, all is lost, and mediocrity will be the name of the game for the foreseeable future.

That said, if we can keep the core and the coach together and actually show some ambition in the transfer market, then it’ll be clear to me that this year was purposefully transitional. There was a collective agreement to make do with what we have and then target this summer for a significant squad refresh.

If that’s not the case and we get more of the same, then yeah... Levy pissed away a chance for something special.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

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Aug 22, 2017
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Apparently the money was there to spend, Poch has to shoulder a lot of the blame for his stubbornness in the transfer market. He’s worked these players into the ground and It’s really starting to show.

I was happy to give the benefit of the doubt after both the summer and winter windows, but it’s really beginning to show that the lack of activity has cost us this year.

The squad now needs major surgery come the summer and we likely won’t have CL to attract players.
The squad really doesn't need major surgery in the summer, that's a knee jerk reaction.

Lloris
Rose/Davies
Alderweireld
Vertonghen
*******
Dier/ Winks/Sissoko
*******
Eriksen
Dele
Son
Kane

Gazzaniga
Trippier/ Aurier
Sanchez
Foyth
Lucas/ Lamela

All are good enough quality. Personally I think we need 2 dead certs for the first team and to move 3-4 out that really have run their course with us. One of our right backs, Wanyama, one of Lucas or Lamela, Llorente & Janssen & Nkoudou don't offer our first XI any game changing value. We have able footballers a plenty but too many are involved in pivotal first team action this season due to long lay offs for Vertonghen, Dier, Dele etc.

We need a top RB, a top CM & an attacking player to rotate with the likes of Dele, Eriksen or Son when one ain't firing. Lucas and Lamela don't out enough quality pressure on them for them to worry about their places.

We were in a position last summer where we only had to spend on one player, each summer, a top signing. Sadly we have taken a step back where we now need 3 but major work isn't necessary, just a replacement for Dembele, a RB that takes responsibility and a WF or AM who can hold their own with first team responsibilities. Personally my first signing would be Grealish, I'd do all I can to rekindle that one. I'd move for Wan-Bissaka & I'd take a punt on Steven N'Zonzi for the quick fix we need that won't cost the earth. Long term I'd keep my eye on Ryan Gravenberch as heir to Dembele in the middle of the park but he's 16 and Ajax won't sell him yet.

Grealish, N'Zonzi & Wan-Bissaka with Gravenberch sweetened up for a year or two when he's ready to take over in CM. All realistic, all gettable and all keep within our financial boundaries, especially the first 2. Not a great list but it would add quality no doubt.
 

Tucker

Jizz Rhino
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
7,433
The squad really doesn't need major surgery in the summer, that's a knee jerk reaction.

Lloris
Rose/Davies
Alderweireld
Vertonghen
*******
Dier/ Winks/Sissoko
*******
Eriksen
Dele
Son
Kane

Gazzaniga
Trippier/ Aurier
Sanchez
Foyth
Lucas/ Lamela

All are good enough quality. Personally I think we need 2 dead certs for the first team and to move 3-4 out that really have run their course with us. One of our right backs, Wanyama, one of Lucas or Lamela, Llorente & Janssen & Nkoudou don't offer our first XI any game changing value. We have able footballers a plenty but too many are involved in pivotal first team action this season due to long lay offs for Vertonghen, Dier, Dele etc.

We need a top RB, a top CM & an attacking player to rotate with the likes of Dele, Eriksen or Son when one ain't firing. Lucas and Lamela don't out enough quality pressure on them for them to worry about their places.

We were in a position last summer where we only had to spend on one player, each summer, a top signing. Sadly we have taken a step back where we now need 3 but major work isn't necessary, just a replacement for Dembele, a RB that takes responsibility and a WF or AM who can hold their own with first team responsibilities. Personally my first signing would be Grealish, I'd do all I can to rekindle that one. I'd move for Wan-Bissaka & I'd take a punt on Steven N'Zonzi for the quick fix we need that won't cost the earth. Long term I'd keep my eye on Ryan Gravenberch as heir to Dembele in the middle of the park but he's 16 and Ajax won't sell him yet.

Grealish, N'Zonzi & Wan-Bissaka with Gravenberch sweetened up for a year or two when he's ready to take over in CM. All realistic, all gettable and all keep within our financial boundaries, especially the first 2. Not a great list but it would add quality no doubt.
I beg to differ. Eriksen and Toby are seemingly off. Lloris and Vertonghen aren’t getting any younger. We lack creativity in midfield, and time and again we fade in the final third of the season.

We also need to replace Dembele.

That’s a lot of work imo.
 

hellava_tough

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Apr 21, 2005
Messages
6,773
I don’t think I’m quite ready to agree we’ve squandered the momentum we had. Not yet. Much will depend on this summer. Should the likes of Dele and Kane agitate for a move, we lose Poch and bring in minimal reinforcements then yes, all is lost, and mediocrity will be the name of the game for the foreseeable future.

That said, if we can keep the core and the coach together and actually show some ambition in the transfer market, then it’ll be clear to me that this year was purposefully transitional. There was a collective agreement to make do with what we have and then target this summer for a significant squad refresh.

If that’s not the case and we get more of the same, then yeah... Levy pissed away a chance for something special.
I hope you're right, but I don't think Levy has ever operated that way; namely, keeping his 'financial powder' dry for a big push when the time is right.

He's never done it, even when we were in a great position to go for it and win something.

If you're being kind, you would say that he's risk-adverse for the benefit of the club. Conversely, you could say that he's greedy and has ploughed all the club's revenue into a stadium project that will enrich him when he finally sells up.

Either way, we'll never 'net spend' significantly in a transfer window.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,863
Indeed, it is abundantly clear that to a small group of SC users, the problem is the fans, and as long we could have the right fans, no problems would ever materialise. The only acceptable type of the fan is the fan who perpetually fears the 90' and accepts anything but.
I think you may have misinterpreted what Saoirse was saying... it's not that fan expectations lead to poor performance by the players, it's that when we have a bad run of form - even one that includes progression to the CL quarters - it feels like the end of the world because expectations are so high. It's why threads like this even exist.

But is this hyperbolic fan assessment actually true now? What expectations are so wildly out of order?
The expectation to:
To do a tiny bit more than zero reinforcements to the squad at all over two windows?
To not lose points in 4 matches in a row and squander a nice and stable top 4 standing?
To keep a 10 point lead over Arsenal?
To win the occasional top 6 match?

These aren't really that fantastic expectations. They are real, and dare I say it, down-to-earth.
And here is the proof of that immediately. We have finished above Arsenal twice in the last 20 years, but now we have an expectation to be 10 points above them? That cannot be viewed as a "down to earth" expectation. We managed to build that gap in the first place but that shouldn't mean that we then set that as par and any downturn should be viewed as failure. Our achievements should be looked at as a whole rather than cherry picking the worst of the bunch.

I think your post actually backs up exactly what Saoirse was saying in terms of fan expectations. The business managers you mention not knowing do exist everywhere. The reason you don't know them is because they report to their managers/boards/stakeholders and not to the public press. Companies have anomalous years in terms of revenue/profits/leads all the time. When they revert to mean it's only seen as a problem if that level falls below long-term targets. Having a good year doesn't mean you disregard context the following year.

So it's not about "fearing the 90's" or anything like that, it's about not using our peak performance as a starting point for our expectations. So when we have four shit league games we can think it wasn't the sky falling in, it was four shit league games.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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Messages
11,346
I think you may have misinterpreted what Saoirse was saying... it's not that fan expectations lead to poor performance by the players, it's that when we have a bad run of form - even one that includes progression to the CL quarters - it feels like the end of the world because expectations are so high. It's why threads like this even exist.


And here is the proof of that immediately. We have finished above Arsenal twice in the last 20 years, but now we have an expectation to be 10 points above them? That cannot be viewed as a "down to earth" expectation. We managed to build that gap in the first place but that shouldn't mean that we then set that as par and any downturn should be viewed as failure. Our achievements should be looked at as a whole rather than cherry picking the worst of the bunch.

I think your post actually backs up exactly what Saoirse was saying in terms of fan expectations. The business managers you mention not knowing do exist everywhere. The reason you don't know them is because they report to their managers/boards/stakeholders and not to the public press. Companies have anomalous years in terms of revenue/profits/leads all the time. When they revert to mean it's only seen as a problem if that level falls below long-term targets. Having a good year doesn't mean you disregard context the following year.

So it's not about "fearing the 90's" or anything like that, it's about not using our peak performance as a starting point for our expectations. So when we have four shit league games we can think it wasn't the sky falling in, it was four shit league games.
No, I didn't misunderstand a thing, actually. But I do see that you enjoy twisting my words. Nobody said that fans expect a 10 point lead to Arsenal. However, once we are in such a wonderful position, there is the expectation to not waste that gap instantly, which I think is a very fair and quite down to earth expectations. Fan's expectations aren't too high, and even if they are, that's not the main problem. "Oh, just bring the right type of fans, and everything else is fine" is an absolutely nonsensical approach and speaks of 1) either disrespect for other fans or 2) that one is handsomely positioned on the club's pay roll.
 

teedee

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Jan 11, 2019
Messages
168
I hope you're right, but I don't think Levy has ever operated that way; namely, keeping his 'financial powder' dry for a big push when the time is right.

He's never done it, even when we were in a great position to go for it and win something.

If you're being kind, you would say that he's risk-adverse for the benefit of the club. Conversely, you could say that he's greedy and has ploughed all the club's revenue into a stadium project that will enrich him when he finally sells up.

Either way, we'll never 'net spend' significantly in a transfer window.
Not with Lewis and Levy at the helm, that's for sure. They may profess to be Spurs fans or football fans, or whatever, but their main aim is to line their own pockets.
 

dtxspurs

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Messages
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No, I didn't misunderstand a thing, actually. But I do see that you enjoy twisting my words. Nobody said that fans expect a 10 point lead to Arsenal. However, once we are in such a wonderful position, there is the expectation to not waste that gap instantly, which I think is a very fair and quite down to earth expectations. Fan's expectations aren't too high, and even if they are, that's not the main problem. "Oh, just bring the right type of fans, and everything else is fine" is an absolutely nonsensical approach and speaks of 1) either disrespect for other fans or 2) that one is handsomely positioned on the club's pay roll.
Expectations you have that are too high: not throw away 10 point leads & buy players.

C'mon man you're just asking for the moon!
 
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