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Why can no-one defend anymore?

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
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It's not just us, as Liverpool & QPR demonstrated this afternoon, and it's been seen from all teams this season from United to Sunderland (arguably excluding Chelsea & Citeh, but even they looked a bit shaky at times against us), teams just cannot defend anymore. No defenders have the pace to match the attack they are facing.

As each season passes we lament how far behind our defensive line is compared to the other clubs we're meant to be competing against, but the Woolwich have looked awful when pushed onto the back foot, Evertons back line dozes off every fifteen minutes and whilst this means we're seeing a lot more goals and attacking talent shining, it seems to be an epidemic and i'm starting to wonder if everyone clamouring to find the next Messi has meant the expectation and quality of defensive coaching and scouting has slipped somewhat.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2003
9,188
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Or is it teams are just so much better in an attacking sense?
They are all pretty average though and collectively appear to have the attention spans of a bunch of 9 year olds at the local football club.
Too much chopping and changing of tactics and personnel I think is the big problem, worrying about the oppo as opposed to playing their own game....
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
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I think it's down to the full backs being so far forward these days the defending aspect seems to be optional.
That said it still doesn't explain things like this weekend when Kabul is our deepest player sitting 5 yds over the half way line with Aguero sitting behind him onside and unmarked.
Its brain dead amateur defending(and thats insulting to amateur football because its not acceptable at that level either).
What puzzles me even more about this example is... no one else in the team sees it and says anything.
If Im playing cb, we're attacking, the opp have left a player on the half way line and the rest of my defence push up leaving me one on one Id be shouting 'Oi, where the f are u going?'.
One left up then 2 defend. Its school boy stuff.
If I was in goal watching that unfold in front of me then again Id be screaming my head off or on the sideline for that matter as I did for my old pub team.
It could be caused as mentioned earlier by chopping and changing means no one takes responsibility but in this case it's the Captain at fault and the Vice Captain watching it and not speaking up (at least dont think he did unless they were ignoring him.)
Another cause is this stupid offside interfering with play crap leaving defenses not knowing whether to push up or not. You can't defend against it unless you just sit deep. Normally end up looking like they dont know whether they're having a shit, shave or a hair cut.
 

Sevens

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2014
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I agree it's partly down to full backs no longer being valued defensively (and when you have a very good full back defensively who isn't great going forward their own fans slate them).

But it's also down I think to a serious dearth in quality of defensive midfielders at the moment, coupled with a lot of teams trying to do away with them all together.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
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I think it might be due to the fact that there's so much pace in the game now. Defenders can't deal with it.
 

Sevens

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2014
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I think it might be due to the fact that there's so much pace in the game now. Defenders can't deal with it.

I don't really think there is anymore pace in the game now than before. Gary Lineker is still the fastest player I have seen over 5 yards. Garth Crooks and Chris Armstrong are the fastest strikers I've seen Spurs have over 10+ yards etc. etc. I think defenders have it harder as years have gone by. Must be a nightmare for a centre half nowadays with the ball dropping from the sky moving around in the wind. It's not as easy to predict as before. And the pitches are like billiard tables which I think helps strikers (although not dribblers funny enough) more than defenders. Finally the game is becoming less and less a contact sport. Which obviously penalises defensive play.
 

VegasII

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2008
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It's because Ossie Ardiles has been using subversive methods to get his anti-defensive football across. Kryptonite in the player's lasgane. Subliminal messages in their gangsta rap and pornos. A Blofeld like scheme where their dreams are interrupted with images and messages of forward thinking defenders.

All of these messages say 'To play in defence is to play like a striker'.

Clearly it's been working wonders for Vergini & Caulker.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
Thing is, fans want exciting football and for some reason, the modern generation of fan, can only get excited about high-lines and this relentless attack minded game. No other league in the world plays the same style as the Premier League, everywhere else it's still a game of tactics and sometimes playing smart rather than the style of throwing everything at the oppo and leaving the defenders stranded in no-mans-land around the centre circle. Wing backs have replaced full backs, it's rare you'll see that straight line of four across the back anymore, and even defensive midfielders are being expected to play both that role and as a deep playmaker - the game has changed, a lot.

It does make me wonder how long it'll be before Sir Ardiles' five-man-suicide-squad formation is considered a viable tactic - it's certainly not far off with the way some teams play with wingers so far up they might as well be wide forwards.

I don't like this high line game, i like to see defenders playing to defend, watching to see when someone is dangerous, react to that threat - there were at least three times against Citeh that Kaboom was the last man, yet was five yards inside their half and, as you can't be offside in your own half of the field, Aguero was loitering on the half way line, behind our last man who even given a head start, could never catch that little demon.

There is nothing wrong with playing a traditional back four, but for some reason, modern managers appear to be completely allergic to it, regardless of the strengths and weaknesses of the players at their disposal.
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
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It does make me wonder how long it'll be before Sir Ardiles' five-man-suicide-squad formation is considered a viable tactic - it's certainly not far off with the way some teams play with wingers so far up they might as well be wide forwards
.

Fu#k that made me laugh. Thank you.
Made me think of Life of Brian , Judean suicide squad lol.
Edit- "Dat showed em..." lol.
 
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Kingstheman

No longer BSoDL
Mar 13, 2006
5,831
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How many defenders 'show a player inside'?

Loads and it resulted in goals against both us and QPR at the weekend.
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
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How many defenders 'show a player inside'?

Loads and it resulted in goals against both us and QPR at the weekend.
This never ceases to amaze me.
That RVP shot against us when he played for Arse always sits in my mind.
There he was, stood stationary on the edge of the box, Keane standing bang in front of him (not a defender granted but even so) and guess what he did. Shifted it onto his left foot and smacked it in.
There were undiscovered tribes in the Amazon who f in knew he was gonna shift that onto his left foot.
Apparently professional footballers have unfortunately yet to realise this.
Its like they've never seen the play before.
Hint- Dembele shifts it to his left 9 times out of 10 ;)
 

goughie1966

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2008
5,150
17,874
Roma losing 7-1 at the moment, Shktar winning 7-0, Chelsea winning 6-0. Nice to see Ashley Cole getting humiliated by Robben and having to be taken off at half time although it hasn't made a scrap of difference
 

Syn_13

Fly On, Little Wing
Jul 17, 2008
14,851
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Roma losing 7-1 at the moment, Shktar winning 7-0, Chelsea winning 6-0. Nice to see Ashley Cole getting humiliated by Robben and having to be taken off at half time although it hasn't made a scrap of difference

What do you mean? They only conceded 2 once Cole went off. That's a 175% improvement right there! :p
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
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Digging this up from page 2, you're basically given the answer by Gary Neville. The emphasis in training isn't on defending any more.

This especially is completely true:
The minimum standards have dropped sharply. When I was brought through from 1991-94, if a full-back allowed a cross it was a crime. Nowadays it barely seems to register.

The one thing Neville does get a bit wrong is this
We always interpret "philosophy" as the attacking style. We never read into that the defensive approach. Sergio Aguero scores goals where he cuts inside and scores with his right foot. I think: why did the defender not show him his left foot? Sometimes the basic attention to defending is not there.
His fourth against us tells the story there.
 

wiggo24

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2013
5,091
36,808
Attacking play is developing much quicker than defensive play.

For example, there are still big, clumsy, slow CB's scattered around the prem, but very few strikers left in the Andy Carroll bracket.

Foreign attacking players are just too good for old-fashioned defenders, although it'll even out soon imo
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
Defence's aren't being coached like they use to

The old george graham coaching is needed for most teams back 4
 

mike_l

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
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And yet teams still manage to look defensively solid against us most weeks...
 

sim0n

King of Prussia
Jan 29, 2005
7,947
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there is so much diving the refs are unable to manage so that defenders dare not breath on an opponent unless there be a freekick/penalty... :pompous:

players flop so much that defending becomes a guessing game these days...
 
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slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
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mike_l, post: 4308677, member: 5923"] And yet teams still manage to look defensively solid against us most weeks...
Thats because teams attack us at pace. 4 passes and it's gone from the edge of their goal area to the back of our net.
We take 20 sideways and backwards passes by which time they have 11 men behind the ball. We are too narrow as well which makes it easy to defend against.
We need to move the ball fast and stretch the game. Until we start doind that we will struggle.
Its so f in obvious what the problem is and yet we've had 2 of our last 3 managers that can't see it.
 
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