Match Threads Wolves vs Spurs - Match Thread

[Timberwolf]

I would love to agree with you but did you see the Man U match? Winks started but still the defence seem to want to hoof it at every opportunity and then SC decided it was still Winks's fault. IMO it can only be tactical the amount of hoof ball we're seeing. I know many of you don't particularly give a shit about the style of play, as long as we're winning, but personally this kind of football makes my eyes bleed.

Well I felt the problem in that particular game that Winks was running around like an absolute madman trying to do everything and leaving big holes in behind. When we have 65%+ possession this isn't an issue as Winks is instrumental in us controlling the match and we're the tempo-setters. However, when our game plan involves going direct and surrendering possession, we need a proper anchor like Dier who will win headers, stay disciplined and cover key defensive areas.

The Sissoko/Winks combo barely worked under Poch, but at least then we usually played with someone like Eriksen so had an extra technical player who could keep possession under pressure and relieve Winks of having to defend too much. With our current play style I think Winks/Sissoko should never ever play together in a CM2 again.

If we'd played Winks instead of Dier yesterday I suspect we would've had a bit more of the ball but I also suspect we would've conceded more than 1.

 

[Primativ]

Got to love a classic scapegoat.

No scape goat, he just isn't good enough. Are you honestly saying since he's been left out of the team you haven't noticed how much better defensively we look?

I doubt it's a coincidence. Stop playing a lightweight academy player with little to no defensive ability at CM and all of a sudden we look much better defensively...not rocket science.

Dier is not good enough either but I can understand why Jose is playing him there, as he at least can play as a DM. Jose is clearly asking Dier to play it simple and play to his strengths.

Some of us have been calling out for Poch to do what Jose is doing, since way before Poch was sacked.

Jose is making the best use of what he has available. Poch seemed to lose touch with reality and pragmatism, and seemed to have this overly romantic outlook on the squad and how we should play. I guess this can happen when a coach stays so long at one club and also becomes delusioned with his view on certain players. For example calling Winks a little Xavi when in fact Winks is an extremely passive non progressive possession player who Poch seemed to love but in reality wasn't good enough.

He believed Winks was the key to his possession based philosophy and seemed to pin his hopes on the kid, playing him every week when he was fit. Our results and style suffered badly. It was his downfall. Not the only reason mind, but a big part of it.

Jose has come in and seen he has a severely limited group of CM players fit, but has been pragmatic and seen the need to pick a balanced side, which includes Dier as he is the only CM we have who can play DM (Wanyama is a busted flush).

I'll be amazed if Winks is a starting CM for Jose next season. (Dier may be if Dier can turn his form around, but I find it very unlikely, Jose will know he needs better long term).

 

[Humbleone]

If it wasn't for Mourinhos "feeling" Jan would never have replaced sissoko in the box for the injury time corner. He mentioned it in one of his interviews or post match conference, that he tinkled that. Also Jan mentioned it in his post match interview. Delicate changes normal tactics to great effect including the eriken sub at the right time to whip in the assist.

Certainly worth the big bucks so far. Hope his insights and instincts will bring us glory.

 

[Dillspur]

He's won four out of five league games so far, so it's effective for now that's for sure.

Only been here a few weeks so can't change too much this quickly.

What's he doing in the interim?

Getting results, oh and scoring lots of goals.

But I agree it's just fucking terrible ?

Yes the results have been good, but there is trend of hitting long balls against tougher teams, UTD, Bayern (when there was no need as it was a dead rubber) and now wolves

 

[Ronwol196061]

Winks looks like he can be great. He is an all round sort of player. He tackles at times well and passes can be great. He also looks like a captain of England type.
But.. he doesnt stamp his name on too many games. He isnt creative ebmven like a Gerrard might be.He isnt tough enough on the defensive side. He remains with potential. His Best Before date is still good but can he grow into the type if quality needed as either a CM or a DM?

 

[Humbleone]

That's still part of the problem, though. Wolves we're carving us open as a team, every one of them knowing what they were supposed to be doing, on and off the ball. That's down to the coaching team, we never had that under Poch, and we still don't have it under Jose, (although it's early days and there are good signs). We can't rely on great individual goals to rescue us every time.

Many matches with poch in our pomp we played great as a team, 4-0 home win to Bournemouth and west from spring to mind among many others

 

[Shadydan]

It's not hoof ball, it's direct football and it works for us better than possession play. Under Poch People would constantly moan at the fact that we'd struggle to break a team down because we kept going backwards only to eventually lose the ball anyway, all we're doing now is getting the ball up to the forwards quicker before the opposition defenders are set and this actually suits our forwards who aren't really possession player anyway this wouldn't have happened pre Mourinho.

And what's more I don't want us to play possession football with the likes of Dier, Sissoko and Alli playing in our midfield, it's completely counter productive, until we get in a midfielder who is able to play under pressure/beat a press and is proficient at keeping the ball in the middle of the pitch we need to continue doing this, it's wielding 3gpg on average for God's sake

 

[Ronwol196061]

It's not hoof ball, it's direct football and it works for us better than possession play. Under Poch People would constantly moan at the fact that we'd struggle to break a team down because we kept going backwards only to eventually lose the ball anyway, all we're doing now is getting the ball up to the forwards quicker before the opposition defenders are set and this actually suits our forwards who aren't really possession player anyway this wouldn't have happened pre Mourinho.

And what's more I don't want us to play possession football with the likes of Dier, Sissoko and Alli playing in our midfield, it's completely counter productive, until we get in a midfielder who is able to play under pressure/beat a press and is proficient at keeping the ball in the middle of the pitch we need to continue doing this, it's wielding 3gpg on average for God's sake

Under Poch at times there was great powerful defence and great counters. Other times it took us ages to get the ball down like death with a 1000 passes.
Under Mourinho so far he is hitting the great long balls. You really need both ways if moving forward and Ndombele for me us the key to the ground game.
Looking forward to it all being out together. It seems there is a huge light ahead of us

 

[Shadydan]

Under Poch at times there was great powerful defence and great counters. Other times it took us ages to get the ball down like death with a 1000 passes.
Under Mourinho so far he is hitting the great long balls. You really need both ways if moving forward and Ndombele for me us the key to the ground game.
Looking forward to it all being out together. It seems there is a huge light ahead of us

Guy needs to get in shape, he really would put this team on another level.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Guy needs to get in shape, he really would put this team on another level.

I'm not sure if he can.I think his fitness looks worse than it is
When you have a great player I think you have to fill in the weaknesses. Like have 2 DMs behind him etc.
I think playing to his strengths will pay great dividends.
Yes if he could have the stamina of Sissoko it would be fantastic. Hopefully he picks it up enough.

 

[Mr Pink]

Yes the results have been good, but there is trend of hitting long balls against tougher teams, UTD, Bayern (when there was no need as it was a dead rubber) and now wolves

It's mixing it up.

At the end of the day we're scoring lots of goals.

I don't see the problem at all.

 

[Primativ]

I'm not sure if he can.I think his fitness looks worse than it is
When you have a great player I think you have to fill in the weaknesses. Like have 2 DMs behind him etc.
I think playing to his strengths will pay great dividends.
Yes if he could have the stamina of Sissoko it would be fantastic. Hopefully he picks it up enough.

He needs time. Foreign player, first season in PL, it's happened a million times.

 

[Ronwol196061]

He needs time. Foreign player, first season in PL, it's happened a million times.

Fair enough...but for me it's the things he does so well that I'm interested in.Its funny but we say he isnt fit but when he is dribbling he looks the fittest of all so not sure if the other problem is stamina or he puts his energy into the creative side if the game more than running back. Not sure.

 

[Shadydan]

It's mixing it up.

At the end of the day we're scoring lots of goals.

I don't see the problem at all.

There isn't a problem, some fans just love to moan.

I'd rather we go for the direct option because our forwards are benefiting more now, at least Kane is in the game more as opposed to before when he was averaging a low amount of touches because the ball wasn't getting forward quick enough.

We are bypassing midfield because we are weak there, we don't have great technicians in the middle of the park, Jose knows this and it's better in the short term because we are getting results from it.

 

[Dillspur]

It's mixing it up.

At the end of the day we're scoring lots of goals.

I don't see the problem at all.

There's mixing it up in game, which I think we did well with against the lesser teams I mentioned and then there's what we did against the tougher teams, if the ball doesn't stick or Kane, Moura or son are having an off day then we just invite pressure.

 

[Ronwol196061]

If the other teams defence kept tight and their defensive mids stayed central I think the one plan is not enough.
A team needs different ways to get the ball down.
Enter Ndombele and maybe Lo Celso and maybe even Skipp as time goes on

 

[Jenko]

Being honest I think we could and should be looking to sign a DM who can play the role better than Dier does, but in the short term we just need to get Ndombele fit and starting regularly next to Dier, because he has that ability to receive the ball under pressure and pass the ball forward better than any of our other central midfielders.

Interesting cos that's what most were saying about Winks as he was breaking through. He has gone downhill since and maybe needs a confidence boost but I think he is lacking in the physicality department which is so important in that position, especially for Jose.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Interesting cos that's what most were saying about Winks as he was breaking through. He has gone downhill since and maybe needs a confidence boost but I think he is lacking in the physicality department which is so important in that position, especially for Jose.

Big difference in Winks creativity with Ndombeles.
Winks sometimes hits a great pass.Ndombele knows right away all the time where he wants to go with the ball

 

[Grapo2001]

I'm not sure if he can.I think his fitness looks worse than it is
When you have a great player I think you have to fill in the weaknesses. Like have 2 DMs behind him etc.
I think playing to his strengths will pay great dividends.
Yes if he could have the stamina of Sissoko it would be fantastic. Hopefully he picks it up enough.

Anyone can get in shape if they want to. It's just hard work and cardio training.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Anyone can get in shape if they want to. It's just hard work and cardio training.

True.If they want to.
But some creative people put their energy more into the creative endeavours. Nobody is perfect.
Ndombele has got more skill than a lot of players combined
Poch was more fixated on the discipline than the creative talents of players.And Klopp got the better of him valuing creativity.