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Women's Football - Wage Disparity Debate

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
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In this instance its about the wages they earn representing the national team. The USA men's team earned $9m for reaching the last sixteen in 2014, but the USA women's team that won the tournament in 2015 earned $2m. The women's team have won three world cups, and sell out stadiums, but don't earn even a quarter of the amount the men take home.



But the women's team and the men's team play for the same company. If you weren't paid the same basic rate as the woman sitting next to you who does the same job you'd be pretty upset.

Point one - doesnt matter what they win. A sold out stadium is a fraction of football income. Without income wages cannot be high/increased. There is (currently) no money in women's football. It's not a debate, they don't generate the cash like the mens team.

Point 2. We're all paid differently in my company based on what we do, not what sex we are.
The income my company generates though is not split into what the ladies bring in and what the men bring in. It's a single income.
Being as though there are far more men on that side of the business, that wouldn't be close or even fair.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
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Ada Hegerberg
Caroline Graham Hansen
Maren Mjelde
Guro Reiten
Marta
Karen Carney
Fran Kirby
Carli Lloyd
Alex Morgan
Megan Rapinoe


And no, I didn't google anything.

I don't disagree with your point (but you set me a challenge so I thought why the hell not). Hell a few years ago a bog standard U18s boys side beat a women's tpp flight team in a friendly here in Norway. I'd back the U20 mens WC winner no problem, maybe (probably) even the U17 WC winner.

But it isn't just about quality, otherwise women's tennis players wouldn't have the same prize money as men's in Grand Slams.

Never heard of any of them.

Then again, I have to Google players Spurs mens team try to sign.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
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Unless I’ve misunderstood you, It really really isn’t. That may well be an ongoing issue I’m not sure but in this instance, in the article in question, it’s about prize money. Read the quotes it’s plain enough.

You're absolutely right. I didn't even see the link for this article and assumed it was the same issue I'd heard about recently.

It's not near the same level.
I doubt the best womens football team could win the u23 mens world cup. The U23s don't get 2 million for winning. Added to that the u23's world cup is probably more popular.

Is equal pay about working to the same level, or people doing the same job getting paid the same basic amount?

And if it's about audience figures...

The 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup Final drew a record 26.7 million viewers, greater than final games of the 2014 World Series or the 2015 NBA Finals, and the 2010 Men's World Cup final drew 26.5 million viewers.
 

barry

Bring me Messi
May 22, 2005
6,505
15,345
You're absolutely right. I didn't even see the link for this article and assumed it was the same issue I'd heard about recently.



Is equal pay about working to the same level, or people doing the same job getting paid the same basic amount?

And if it's about audience figures...

The 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup Final drew a record 26.7 million viewers, greater than final games of the 2014 World Series or the 2015 NBA Finals, and the 2010 Men's World Cup final drew 26.5 million viewers.

Firstly getting paid more when you bring in more money is common. A multitude of jobs do exactly this.
Secondly where are you getting these audience figures?
 

Gareth88

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2017
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I'm pretty sure women in the WNBA are in the same position, I think the lower pay has to do with popularity of the sport rather than gender.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
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Point one - doesnt matter what they win. A sold out stadium is a fraction of football income. Without income wages cannot be high/increased. There is (currently) no money in women's football. It's not a debate, they don't generate the cash like the mens team.

Point 2. We're all paid differently in my company based on what we do, not what sex we are.
The income my company generates though is not split into what the ladies bring in and what the men bring in. It's a single income.
Being as though there are far more men on that side of the business, that wouldn't be close or even fair.

Point 1. You can still pay the men and the women the same basic wage though. You can add in bonuses for success, for income generated through sponsorship, prize money etc. There are national teams already doing this.

Point 2. I'm not sure what your saying to be honest. Are you saying that a man and a woman who do the exact same job at your company would be paid different basic salaries?
 

barry

Bring me Messi
May 22, 2005
6,505
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Point 1. You can still pay the men and the women the same basic wage though. You can add in bonuses for success, for income generated through sponsorship, prize money etc. There are national teams already doing this.

Point 2. I'm not sure what your saying to be honest. Are you saying that a man and a woman who do the exact same job at your company would be paid different basic salaries?

What constitutes a basic amount?
 

raiden

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2013
265
264
I Remember reading an article that said that the U.S womens team not only played more games but also generated more revenue and profit for the soccer federation then the mens team. And if thats the case surely they deserve at least equal money.
 

raiden

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2013
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264
Quick search finds a article in the Atlantic but its not the original one i read
 

Rob

The Boss
Admin
Jun 8, 2003
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Firstly you win

Nah he doens't. Now he's named the most well-known he can think of, the challenge is how many other people have heard of them. That's hown you judge popularity and popularity is what drives viewing figures and attendances which ultimately pays the money.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
Point 1. You can still pay the men and the women the same basic wage though. You can add in bonuses for success, for income generated through sponsorship, prize money etc. There are national teams already doing this.

Point 2. I'm not sure what your saying to be honest. Are you saying that a man and a woman who do the exact same job at your company would be paid different basic salaries?

Point 2, no I'm not. Im saying in a company where the income isn't split between what women bring in and what men bring in, everyone is paid purely on what they do. There are senior women who earn plenty more than me. My wife earns double my salary and her bonus is a joke.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
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Firstly getting paid more when you bring in more money is common. A multitude of jobs do exactly this.
Secondly where are you getting these audience figures?

Usually through a bonus though. You hit certain criteria and you earn more money.

Just Google most watched soccer match in the USA.

As an example the New York times...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/07/...hed-soccer-game-in-united-states-history.html

What constitutes a basic amount?

I've got no idea what figure would be suitable for a basic wage for international football players. I'm sure they can work out a fair amount. The men might have to take a pay cut so the women can earn more.

I Remember reading an article that said that the U.S womens team not only played more games but also generated more revenue and profit for the soccer federation then the mens team. And if thats the case surely they deserve at least equal money.

This one?

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ns-soccer-team-win-their-battle-for-equal-pay

In its defense, US Soccer has also cited higher revenues and higher game attendance for the men’s national team compared to the women. Historically, that’s been a strong argument for the federation but not so much lately: since 2016 the women’s team has brought in more revenue than the men. In the fiscal year for 2016, the lawsuit says, US Soccer projected a loss of around $400,000 but ended the year with $17.7m in profit due to the women winning the 2015 World Cup and surging in popularity. The latest financial picture released by the federation continues to show more revenue generated by the women. The men didn’t even qualify for the 2018 World Cup, losing out on what would have been big revenues.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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Well the women get paid more than the men in the england squad. They haven't been paid since the 70's all the money goes to charity.
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
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It's not near the same level.
I doubt the best womens football team could win the u23 mens world cup. The U23s don't get 2 million for winning. Added to that the u23's world cup is probably more popular.

Anybody said, "That's a bold statement" yet?
 

Danners9

Available on a Free Transfer
Mar 30, 2004
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from today: https://www.foxsports.com.au/footba...s/news-story/a4ee4c04f62bdda856928bf8c377164a

W-League players will earn the same minimum hourly wage as their A-League counterparts under a commitment to increase their pay by a third.

The FFA and players’ union have signed off on a one-year extension to the collective bargaining agreements underpinning each of the leagues. The minimum W-League remuneration will increase by 33 per cent to $16,344, bringing them in line with the men when the shorter season is factored in.
---

That is just under 9k GBP. They play a league season of 12 games. The Men's is 27 games. I presume there are cup games, as well.
---
This is from elsewhere, but:
Generally, A-League clubs have operated on a "rule of sevens": Seven players earning in the highest bracket ($200,000 or more), seven in the middle tier (between $100,000 and $150,00) and then seven players hovering just above the minimum salary ($61,287).

(The agreement in the first link also increased the salary cap by $400k to $3.2m per year, so the salaries will increase and the W-League salary increase is based on the new figure)
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
You're absolutely right. I didn't even see the link for this article and assumed it was the same issue I'd heard about recently.



Is equal pay about working to the same level, or people doing the same job getting paid the same basic amount?

And if it's about audience figures...

The 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup Final drew a record 26.7 million viewers, greater than final games of the 2014 World Series or the 2015 NBA Finals, and the 2010 Men's World Cup final drew 26.5 million viewers.

Taken from the link you used:

"Ed Desser, a sports television consultant and former N.B.A. executive, described several factors leading to a “perfect storm” of viewership on Sunday night: a time of year with light sports competition, a strong American team to root for, a rematch of the 2011 Women’s World Cup finalists, and weeks of buildup for the American team on both Fox and Fox Sports 1."
In other words, had the USA not been in it, the viewing figures would have been much much lower.

The men's WC final draws in massive figures regardless of who is in it.

You then slightly skew the claim about the comparison to the World Series.
The 26.7 million viewers for the WC final was English & Spanish speaking, whereas the article states the figure for the World Series as only being the English speaking viewers, so it's not a like for like comparison.

You also failed to add the bit that the NCAA Men's Basketball final for that year had a higher audience.

That being said... In the US, women's football is definitely a growing sport of choice for girls. It does pull in an audience over there, whereas across the rest of the world it doesn't.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
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FIFA is a not-for-profit who’s (supposed) mission is to plough the money back into the game all over the world, especially at grassroots level. Commercial popularity should not be the prime consideration for distribution of investment in the men’s or women’s international game. Otherwise you just increase the divide between the haves and the have nots.
lol
 
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