New Stadium Details And Discussions

Chris12345 · Nov 10, 2009

I imagine the wide aisles are a safety requirement... although the Stade de France I noticed has aisles that widen towards the doors, and are narrow at the top (i.e. where it's only the back row that uses it) which I thought was quite good... ain't seen it anywhere else tho...

southlondonyiddo · Nov 10, 2009

Chris12345 said:
I imagine the wide aisles are a safety requirement... although the Stade de France I noticed has aisles that widen towards the doors, and are narrow at the top (i.e. where it's only the back row that uses it) which I thought was quite good... ain't seen it anywhere else tho...

Sounds a better idea.

More likely the dumbing down of football so we dont shout & swear so much and sit there quietly in little rows and isles. ! Easily viewed by cctv with the stewards ready to pounce at the merest sign of passion or over exuberance!

All these grounds you go to these days have tons of Isles and exits and those stupid bits that look like scaffolding everywhere St James's Park,Reading etc etc.....bloody horrible and all makes for less groups of supporters sitting together in 1 area

nicdic · Nov 10, 2009

steve said:
Agreed, I emailed the club saying the same thing as I'm sure others did. The lower tier not only generates more atmosphere but obviously gives people a better view and gets them closer to the action. Right now apart from the West Stand I imagine the numbers for upper and lower are similar, if not in the majority for the lower tiers...

Lower tier might have better atmosphere, but it doesn't give you a better view.

ever · Nov 10, 2009

southlondonyiddo said:
Sounds a better idea.

More likely the dumbing down of football so we dont shout & swear so much and sit there quietly in little rows and isles. ! Easily viewed by cctv with the stewards ready to pounce at the merest sign of passion or over exuberance!

All these grounds you go to these days have tons of Isles and exits and those stupid bits that look like scaffolding everywhere St James's Park,Reading etc etc.....bloody horrible and all makes for less groups of supporters sitting together in 1 area

but they do reduce the risk of accidents, if an evacuation is needed for some reason then it is a fire risk/health and safety risk for there not to be enough aisles

MattyP · Nov 10, 2009

I'm pretty sure you'll find the aisles thing is a health and safety issue.

I'd be amazed if Levy would not fit in another few seats if he was able to do it by reducing the width of the aisles. More seats = more money = more dividend = more smiles from Dan.

steve · Nov 10, 2009

nicdic said:
Lower tier might have better atmosphere, but it doesn't give you a better view.

Does from where I sit...

southlondonyiddo · Nov 10, 2009

steve said:
Does from where I sit...

Which is?

East lower, pretty central about 20 rows back I would guess?

steve · Nov 10, 2009

yes row 24 towards the park lane...close enough to feel the noise but also see whats going on....sat in the upper tiers (except West) and although you can see everything it's too distant and noiseless for my liking...

Lancaster Spur · Nov 21, 2009

There are quite a few objections in the comments on the planning site. 3 from one bloke with 3 different companies! Fool. Most objections are centred around the traffic problems of an increased capacity.

Achap · Nov 21, 2009

Lancaster Spur said:
There are quite a few objections in the comments on the planning site. 3 from one bloke with 3 different companies! Fool. Most objections are centred around the traffic problems of an increased capacity.

Less than a quarter of the responses are objections, and they seem pretty lightweight, don't they. The three you mention from the egg bloke particularly, appear to just be made to extort assistance from Spurs or the Borough in providing new premises. The benefits to the whole area, and responses of strong support from local organisations like the Haringey Sports Development Trust and the Haringey Education Business Partnership should easily outweigh that type of objection.

SpurSince57 · Nov 22, 2009

My contact on Haringey Council told me a long while ago—off the record—that nothing's going to get in the way of this; it's far too important for the regeneration of the area.

worcestersauce · Nov 22, 2009

Manner from Heaven for Haringey council I'd have thought SS57.

MattyP · Nov 22, 2009

Made me laugh some of the objections, the club has only been there for over a century, if they didn't want football fans near their homes/businesses why did they move there.

punky · Nov 23, 2009

There are some right numpties on there. Its worth ploughing through for a good laugh. Like #17. He (from Bedfordshire) is complaining its a "waste of resources" (presumably Spurs' as we are the ones paying for it) and should "easily ground-share with the North London neighbours, Arsenal" :duh:

And the twat Derek Osborne who submits the same object 3 different times under 3 different company names. :roll:

davidmatzdorf · Nov 25, 2009

In case no one has posted it yet, here's the link to the planning drawings online:

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=206589

As I work in housing development, I had a look at the plans for the Southern Development. There was suggestion on another board that the council was not happy about the high proportion of 1 & 2 bedroom flats.

I can see that MAKE have adopted the obvious and sensible approach, which is to provide 3 and 4 bedroom maisonettes at ground level, many of them with a bit of private outdoor space attached, and then pile up the 1 and 2 bedroom flats above. If there is going to be affordable housing anywhere, it's likely to go into those 3 & 4 bedroom maisonettes at ground level first.

If the council demands a higher percentage of larger units above, it doesn't look very hard to tweak the plans accordingly. But there are also 3 & 4 bedroom units on the second and third floors - the 1 & 2 bedroom flats are on the fourth to tenth floors and there are a few 4 bedroom units amongst the penthouses on the eleventh to nineteenth floors, so it's not as if the scheme has no larger units at all.

If anyone is in any doubt about how big this development is, have a look at some of the Southern Development drawings - and then compare them with the overall plans. The Southern Development is where the housing and hotel and club museum are and it's easier to get a grip on the scale from these drawings. Roughly nos. 1-20 are floor plans; then nos. 25-36 show various views of the building - use the zoom tool on Acrobat Reader to have a closer look.

Also, if anyone is still in any doubt as to whether the club is serious about this, have a look at the level of detail on the drawings - this is why it takes months/years to prepare a big planning application. They have individual layouts for every flat type, they've worked out where the external window-cleaning tracks will run, they've even got chairs and tables on the balconies for scale.

davidmatzdorf · Nov 25, 2009

Achap said:
Less than a quarter of the responses are objections, and they seem pretty lightweight, don't they. The three you mention from the egg bloke particularly, appear to just be made to extort assistance from Spurs or the Borough in providing new premises...

As is often the case, many of the objections to the planning application are not based on valid planning considerations. The one that always drives me nuts (and that pops up on every single planning application) is the suggestion that the council should turn down a planning application because the noise of construction will disturb the neighbours. Half a second's thought would reveal that, if this were a valid planning objection, nothing would ever get built. So, of course, councils routinely ignore all of these.

I'm heartened by the high proportion of responses supporting the plans. Most of them are obviously from Spurs supporters, but equally, most of them focus on the regeneration aspect of the proposal, which is what's going to count with the council.

There are a few objections that are well-considered - mainly the ones centring around the poor transport connections. But, from what we read, this topic has been the subject of years of pre-negotiation between THFC and Haringey. I think the fact that we have got to this stage suggests that the necessary research has already been done and included in the planning application.

My suspicion is that the listed buildings will cause a problem and that this will delay the scheme. English Heritage can override any level of enthusiasm from Haringey Council and simply say "no" to the demolition. However, I do not really believe the club's insistence that they cannot deliver the scheme without removing these buildings. I think it is spin intended to apply pressure.

It would cost more to keep the buildings and would probably create a less successful scheme, but if they have to redesign around the listed buildings, I think they will just do it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they already have an alternative version sketched out.

worcestersauce · Nov 25, 2009

English Heritage can say no but that isn't the end of it, if they say no then the club (and council) apeal and English Heritage have to justify their objection and pay costs if they lose, which they will, so they won't fight this one.
I understand they went for shit or bust with the Gerkin and lost so they have to be very selective about what court cases they waste money on these days.
To be honest English Heritage is an honourabe ideal but I believe they got to the stage where they started to fight everything and so have lost some credibility.
The buildings that will remain have already been agreed on and are in the application so I don't think the plans will be changed.

davidmatzdorf · Nov 25, 2009

worcestersauce said:
English Heritage can say no but that isn't the end of it, if they say no then the club (and council) apeal and English Heritage have to justify their objection and pay costs if they lose, which they will, so they won't fight this one.

EH (or the local authority) would only have to pay the costs of the appeal 1) if they lost and 2) if the Inspector found that EH (or the local authority) had refused the application improperly or on entirely spurious grounds. The most common - indeed almost the only - occasion when an authority gets hit with appeal costs is when the councillors have wilfully and unjustifiably overturned an officers' recommendation for approval. This happens quite often, because councillors are more concerned with appeasing their NIMBY constituents than in following legal advice. But it would be a real rarity for this to affect EH. They can just stand on their own judgment that the buildings are worthy of retention - they're the experts, after all.

worcestersauce said:
To be honest English Heritage is an honourable ideal but I believe they got to the stage where they started to fight everything and so have lost some credibility.

Mmm. Yes. Long ago. Preserving stuff out of fear that the replacement might be worse. Which is not their job.

worcestersauce said:
The buildings that will remain have already been agreed on and are in the application so I don't think the plans will be changed.

Where did you hear that? That's not my impression, although no one has told me otherwise. I've just been concluding from the club's noisy assurances that everyone else is on board, combined with their deafening silence about the listed buildings, that this issue is still in play.

Lilbaz · Nov 26, 2009

Can't the Mayor overide EH? With one of our major shreholders being chairman of the tories (at least I think he is) and with a few hundred thousadn votes on the line I think he may quash any objections (at least I hope).

C0YS · Nov 26, 2009

Interesting thought, it seems like our pitch size isnt actually increasing too much only

to 105m x 68m, from 100m x 67
very intersting plans...

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