New Stadium Details And Discussions

wooderz · Mar 30, 2011

bigturnip said:
The Games won't even be over then. Or maybe you've got visions of us playing while all the wheelchairs are whizzing round the outside.

The paralympics are in 2013?

RichieS · Mar 30, 2011

$hoguN said:
I agree with what you have written there Richie, well everything other than the PR campaign, as I feel we handled it the mature adult way, whereas West Ham were just trying every cheap trick they could to get public backing.

Yeah, by better I suppose I meant shouted louder. We really should have pulled things that were just wrong up though - like the £500m myth.

bigturnip · Mar 30, 2011

RichieS said:
Just posted this in the thread in the main forum; it's a response to my brother who for some reason likes athletics and was arguing with me via text. The reference to teachers and their pension is because our dad is having to retire from teaching at 56 in order to keep his pension.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/club-statement-300311.html

So we have another instance of media interference in the process.

Re: "Legacy" - What do you (or I, or anybody) actually know about the West Ham plans? Their entire bid was based on a massive media campaign where they spouted constant drivel about keeping a track and some bollocks about "promises made in the Queen's name".

So the OPLC chose their much safer (in the eyes of the media) bid because it retains the temporary (i.e. the actual post-games plan was to dismantle all of the stadium you can see, leaving just the subterranean part as an athletics arena) structure with a track inside. This is a massive over simplification of the 'legacy'. So when does the stadium actually get to be used for track and field? I don't think West Ham are going to let people stick javelins in their pitch during the season. And all the temporary seating they're going to put over the track isn't exactly going to make it accessible.

In contrast, our £25m (of club money) redevelopment of Crystal Palace into the National Athletics Stadium would have been available 365 days a year for track and field. Yes, it's smaller (25,000 as opposed to the 40,000 that West Ham plan) but that only matters to delusional people such as yourself and Seb Coe who think more than 8 people in this country are interested in athletics (and don't start spouting off about all the applications for Olympics tickets - people want to go because it's the Olympics, not because it's athletics).

The legacy was never about the stadium anyway - it was about trying to get people enthused about athletics rather then it being something that you have to do at school and then mercifully goes away afterwards. West Ham successfully made it about the stadium and nothing more.

Ultimately, West Ham ran a much better PR campaign, to the point where the OPLC had no option but to choose them to avoid getting destroyed by the press. Oh, and it may have had something to do with the number of people who are involved with both the OPLC and Newham Council.

Did I mention as well that the £40m loan that Newham have taken out on behalf of West Ham is underwritten by the taxpayer? And that West Ham are taking up the £35m redevelopment fund, again provided by the taxpayer on top of the £500m the Olympic Park (yes, park, not stadium like the media get away with saying - the stadium was £80m) which, while avaiable to Spurs, we weren't going to use. Do we not think that instead of being given to West Ham, that £75m might have been better spent, I dunno, keeping teachers' final salary pensions so that they aren't forced to retire early?

And finally, as yet there have been NO guarantees from anybody that West Ham will be forced to retain the track. How stupid are people going to feel in a few years time when they tear it up? Oh wait, everyone except you, Seb Coe and the other 6 won't care because athletics will have been forgotten about again.

By the way, changes to teacher's pensions don't affect any pension entitlement already accrued, so nobody is being forced to retire early to keep their final salary pension.

$hoguN · Mar 30, 2011

I agree we should have dispelled some of the utter tripe they spouted however the way they publically went about trying to trash us maybe part of the basis for any leagal action so I would like to see how it all plays out before being too critical of how we handled ourselves.

bigturnip · Mar 30, 2011

wooderz said:
The paralympics are in 2013?

No, 2012.

StartingPrice · Mar 30, 2011

bigturnip said:
Levy should just man up and accept defeat, it's making him look bitter and will do no good for the club.

But you are only saying that because you obstinately didn't/don't want the club to move anywhere, ever (I don't really want the club to move, but not with the blind obstinacy that you have - which means, I believe, I look at the case more objectively). If it wasn't for that you might see that there was something 'dodgy' about the decision, and therefore it is not a case of whether Levy should 'man-up' or not, but whether justice has been done in this instance. I feel to we should wait on the outcome before deciding whether Levy is right or wrong in taking this action.

wooderz · Mar 30, 2011

bigturnip said:
No, 2012.

He said 2 seasons time....2011/2012 = 1 - 2012/2013 = 2

WhiteStripe · Mar 30, 2011

bigturnip said:
The Games won't even be over then. Or maybe you've got visions of us playing while all the wheelchairs are whizzing round the outside.

2 seasons time....ie the start of 2013/2014 season, so 1 year after the Olympics.

talkshowhost86 · Mar 30, 2011

SpurSince57 said:
Get over what?

Yes, I know he made a vague statement about 'spiralling costs'. He wasn't terribly specific about what these were, however (to say the least), and hasn't been since. Are you telling me you weren't just a little surprised when the initial announcement about non-viability was made just after planning permission was granted? I can tell you that Haringey Council were.

And now it's sour grapes and a judicial review. Whoopee!

Do you seriously think though that Levy would put the time and money into a judicial review process if the NDP was viable? I do agree that it's strange that it seemed to suddenly become unviable and it would be nice to have some more details on the difference in costs/practicality of the two projects, but I think the fact that we're going for JR (if we do actually do that) clearly shows that Levy doesn't fancy the NDP anymore and that is likely to be because of the financial benefits of both projects.

SpurSince57 · Mar 30, 2011

talkshowhost86 said:
Do you seriously think though that Levy would put the time and money into a judicial review process if the NDP was viable? I do agree that it's strange that it seemed to suddenly become unviable and it would be nice to have some more details on the difference in costs/practicality of the two projects, but I think the fact that we're going for JR (if we do actually do that) clearly shows that Levy doesn't fancy the NDP anymore and that is likely to be because of the financial benefits of both projects.

This is what I meant: it seems very strange to me that the club went to the time, trouble and not inconsiderable expense of having the plans redrawn and then announced that the project was no longer viable. Don't fans deserve some transparency?

Krafty · Mar 30, 2011

Its not a judicial review yet, thats how I read it, its a letter of intent to seek a judicial review.

What that means I dont know, maybe I'm too obsessed with conspiracy theories to come up with a sensible suggestion.

worcestersauce · Mar 30, 2011

bigturnip said:
Levy should just man up and accept defeat, it's making him look bitter and will do no good for the club.

This is not about some pathetic little pride thing and it's not about accepting defeat for the sake of the club, it is about a partnership with an international events company that was going to pump a huge amount of money into a scheme which the club feels is the right one for the club's future with all the financial benefits that would acrue from it.
Whatever you may think about the scheme it would be a corporate dereliction of duty not to challenge the dubious decision and and just walk away from what it ses as that great opportunity.
The decision was made on dubious financial grounds and without concrete guarantees so, whether it is overturned or not, it is important that these points are looked into thoroughly.

SpurSince57 · Mar 30, 2011

That, however, is how it will look, and almost certainly how the media will run it.

L-man · Mar 30, 2011

I think it may be a similar situation to when Levy was threatening to report Liverpool and United to the PL over the Berba and Keane transfers. He made them cough up for the THFC foundation.

Maybe he's going to carry out legal proceedings until we get the enterprise zone of whatever it was. We might be told behind the scenes to drop the issue in exchange for the zone.

Just a thought.

sloth · Mar 30, 2011

Not Lammy's biggest fan, but I was really impressed with him in this interview: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hopes-Spurs-legal-action-will-fall-away.html?

Interestingly he raised the subjects of the Northumberland Park Depot, which I'd for a long time thought was an impossibility. Now if we can get a tube station...

MattyP · Mar 30, 2011

sloth said:
Not Lammy's biggest fan, but I was really impressed with him in this interview: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...hopes-Spurs-legal-action-will-fall-away.html?

Interestingly he raised the subjects of the Northumberland Park Depot, which I'd for a long time thought was an impossibility. Now if we can get a tube station...

Whether or not N17 becomes an enterprise zone or not, as far as I understand we will not get a new station at Northumberland Park. TfL / London Underground did their assessment on it and it did not pass the necessary level for it to go any further.

I'd be staggered if, in an age of cuts, the Mayor would over-rule on something like that.

I hope I'm wrong - for the £60m it would take I think in combination with an enterprise zone it could regenerate the whole area. I'd just be amazed if it ever happened.

SpurSince57 · Mar 30, 2011

The problem (or rather, one of the many problems) with the Northumberland Park Depot is that the trackbed that any extension will require belongs to Network Rail, not TfL, and Network Rail are apparently planning to quadruple the line from Tottenham Hale to Broxbourne. And, as before, I simply cannot see TfL agreeing to an extension which will hardly be used other than on match days.

However, it's simply outrageous that Newham, having got the Olympic Park, is also being made an Enterprise Zone when Tottenham is not.

StartingPrice · Mar 30, 2011

MattyP said:
Whether or not N17 becomes an enterprise zone or not, as far as I understand we will not get a new station at Northumberland Park. TfL / London Underground did their assessment on it and it did not pass the necessary level for it to go any further.

I'd be staggered if, in an age of cuts, the Mayor would over-rule on something like that.

I hope I'm wrong - for the £60m it would take I think in combination with an enterprise zone it could regenerate the whole area. I'd just be amazed if it ever happened.

Shi'ite, boy, that Boris is M A D asa coot, though, ain't he:grin:

SpurSince57 said:
The problem (or rather, one of the many problems) with the Northumberland Park Depot is that the trackbed that any extension will require belongs to Network Rail, not TfL, and Network Rail are apparently planning to quadruple the line from Tottenham Hale to Broxbourne. And, as before, I simply cannot see TfL agreeing to an extension which will hardly be used other than on match days.

However, it's simply outrageous that Newham, having got the Olympic Park, is also being made an Enterprise Zone when Tottenham is not.

THIS

Spur-of-the-moment · Mar 30, 2011

StartingPrice said:
Still don't buy into your simple, face-value reading.
You would rather believe that these highly successful, exacting and exhaustively thorough professionals would put in a bid that looks amateurish, or niave, and 'radical misunderstanding of the politics and PR', even though they were in close cahoots with the Mayor of BorisDon, than accept an element of brinkmanship:shrug:

Anyway, I don't know, but neither does anyone else (including you, Sloth) - all I said was the seemingly inept nature of the OS bid allows for the possibility of brinkmanship. And it does.

I'm quite sure that the nuts and bolts of the bid was highly professional. But that's not my point.

The PR was awful. People do get these things wrong, and in this case it was spectacular.

We don't know exactly why Levy went for Stratford - but the main chance came up when AEG fell out with Wham. If Levy was given a nod and a wink by Boris, then it would be the act of the utmost political naivety to imagine that was based on anything other than shifting sands. One has to be able to read a political situation - and, yes, people often get this wrong as well, surprise, surprise.

That's why you hire professionals. In the case of both PR and politics, these professionals have to be very good indeed. I think Levy was badly advised. I hope that with the current legal business he is getting better advice.

Sotm

Spur-of-the-moment · Mar 30, 2011

Krafty said:
Its not a judicial review yet, thats how I read it, its a letter of intent to seek a judicial review.

What that means I dont know, maybe I'm too obsessed with conspiracy theories to come up with a sensible suggestion.

I think they want to have a look at the relevant documentation. It means that they can look at it and think carefully about whether to go to the next step.

Sotm

Forums

What's new

Matches

Sportsbook

Members

New Stadium Details And Discussions

James and SC Striker

Well-Known Member

Tottenham till I die, Stratford over my dead body

Well-Known Member

Tottenham till I die, Stratford over my dead body

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

James and SC Striker

Get out of my club you cretin!

Mod-Moose

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope

Well-Known Member

Misplaced pass from Dier

Well-Known Member

Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes

Well-Known Member

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads