Jenas says what we're all thinking

Hoddle_Ledge · Apr 8, 2011

No not that...

"We have a very difficult game at home against Stoke on Saturday, especially given our record against some teams in the bottom half of the Premier League this season.

Michael Dawson and I were going through it the other day and we've dropped a lot of points against those sides. At Wigan last weekend, things just didn't seem to click, perhaps because the Real Madrid game was at the back of everyone's minds.

We all wanted to play in that match but maybe things have changed now after the result in the first leg. We're desperate to get back in the top four.

Last season, we beat Arsenal and Chelsea and those wins were the catalyst for us finishing fourth and we have them both to play again before the season ends. I believe playing against the stronger sides will bring out the best in us, so let's hope we get the same response as we managed last season."

Evening Standard

Might be wrong but I think this might be the first time our poor form against lower teams has been spoken about in the open.

Maybe JJ has mentioned this to Harry and he might actually do something about it?

AngerManagement · Apr 8, 2011

Lower teams look to pack the middle and keep it tight at the back, they force you to break them down and deny you space behind them whilst simply looking to attack occasionally on the break and from set pieces.

Fact is we lack a clinical striker or two to beat these sides as and when we do create chances (notice how often we relied on VDV or Bale earlier in the season to score the goals that beat these teams)

How many chances did Defoe miss against West Ham for example?

We seriously need an upgrade upfront this summer, how much time can you keep giving people who fail to produce?

Azrael · Apr 8, 2011

Far more important is the admission that they were worry to much about Madrid. It betrays the fact that the players have been putting the CL first this season, which most if us could both see and knew would be a fatal mistake.

Hoddle_Ledge · Apr 8, 2011

Same thing happened quite a lot last season.

Maybe we need to hold demonstration outside the ground for a decent striker and some new tactics.

dav3j · Apr 8, 2011

Hoddle_Ledge said:
Might be wrong but I think this might be the first time our poor form against lower teams has been spoken about in the open.

Maybe JJ has mentioned this to Harry and he might actually do something about it?

I very much doubt this is the first time Harry has realised this. Whether he'll do enough to sort it out is ather issue.

kaz Hirai · Apr 8, 2011

Hoddle_Ledge said:
No not that...

"We have a very difficult game at home against Stoke on Saturday, especially given our record against some teams in the bottom half of the Premier League this season.

Michael Dawson and I were going through it the other day and we've dropped a lot of points against those sides. At Wigan last weekend, things just didn't seem to click, perhaps because the Real Madrid game was at the back of everyone's minds.

We all wanted to play in that match but maybe things have changed now after the result in the first leg. We're desperate to get back in the top four.

Last season, we beat Arsenal and Chelsea and those wins were the catalyst for us finishing fourth and we have them both to play again before the season ends. I believe playing against the stronger sides will bring out the best in us, so let's hope we get the same response as we managed last season."

Evening Standard

Might be wrong but I think this might be the first time our poor form against lower teams has been spoken about in the open.

Maybe JJ has mentioned this to Harry and he might actually do something about it?

well that was blatantly obvious, it was like a training match. no play put any real effort in, to concerned about madrid. I suspect the team and the manager now realises that the champions league run is pretty much done and will now go all out to win league games, just hope Pav and VDV start

StartingPrice · Apr 8, 2011

AngerManagement said:
Lower teams look to pack the middle and keep it tight at the back, they force you to break them down and deny you space behind them whilst simply looking to attack occasionally on the break and from set pieces.

Fact is we lack a clinical striker or two to beat these sides as and when we do create chances (notice how often we relied on VDV or Bale earlier in the season to score the goals that beat these teams)

How many chances did Defoe miss against West Ham for example?

We seriously need an upgrade upfront this summer, how much time can you keep giving people who fail to produce?

Which is exactly why we need a clinical finisher in the box - a Clive Allen type, for when we arre dominating teams who play us like this. And yet so many SCers are still obsessed with the idea that we need a BerbaGit type striker (not that a player of his quality wouldn't be all-round nice to have), and go on about pace and link-up play. These are qualities that are more important when moving the ball from your own third of the field at pace against teams that push you up and apply pressure (i.e. the better teams) - but we don't struggle so much against them, as we have quality in that regard already. They don't really matter so much when we are camped in the oppos 3rd for lengthy periods of the game. The abilty to make space is important - what good is being able to run very fast if you are already in the oppos penatly area. That is why Darren Bent was failing at the Lane. With a team like Sunderland his strengths are being played to, as they come under pressure more and his speed comes into play. We create the chances. All we need is a clinical finisher in the box (which is why I belive Aitch wanted to bring Horse-Face to the Lane).

jonathanhotspur · Apr 8, 2011

VDV and Gallas have both recently said something along the same lines.

But the remark about prioritising the CL is staggering, even though most of us were already of the opinion that that was exactly what was going on. I'm so fucking angry right now.

Archibald&Crooks · Apr 8, 2011

jonathanhotspur said:
VDV and Gallas have both recently said something along the same lines.

But the remark about prioritising the CL is staggering, even though most of us were already of the opinion that that was exactly what was going on. I'm so fucking angry right now.

He said "perhaps because the Real Madrid game was at the back of everyone's minds"

That's the Madrid game. A huge game, which no doubt was being looked forward to by them as much as by us.

He doesn't say that throughout the season the CL was given priority by the management or the players.

jonathanhotspur · Apr 8, 2011

Archibald&Crooks said:
He said "perhaps because the Real Madrid game was at the back of everyone's minds"

That's the Madrid game. A huge game, which no doubt was being looked forward to by them as much as by us.

He doesn't say that throughout the season the CL was given priority by the management or the players.

So you don't think we prioritised the CL? Why were we resting players for it, then? Or risking them in it when they weren't fully fit?

Hoddle_Ledge · Apr 8, 2011

Games before and after the CL matches, bit mixed really. But you could say the games around Inter, Milan and Madrid were slightly worse than the others. Could we really expect anything else though?

West Brom Draw - Werder A - Won Wolves
West Ham Lost - Twente H - Won Villa
Fulham Won - Milan A - Draw Everton
Man U Lost - Milan H - Lost Bolton
Goons Won - Werder H - Won Liverpool
Brum Draw - Twente A - Draw Chelsea
Sunderland Won - Milan A - Lost Blackpool
Wolves Draw - Milan H - Draw West Ham
Wigan Draw - Madrid A - …..Stoke

CosmicHotspur · Apr 8, 2011

Our domestic games and finishing in the top four should always be a priority, because we are then assured of CL football the following season. Of course we want glory, but we aren't going to get instant gratification.

Without one or two new strikers and another goalie, I can see it happening. We've actually played really well in some games but failed to find the net, time and time again which is incredibly frustrating. When we've played badly, we haven't been able to capitalise on the goal-scoring opportunities that arose and you can even win games like that with the right men up front.

Defoe and Crouch have both been great when on form and Pav hasn't really been on the pitch enough to make enough impact although he is certainly capable of scoring important goals. Not so long ago they, and a fair few of our midfield and defensive players, were taking successful potshots at goal but it just isn't happening right now and the goals have dried up.

Must be addressed and soon if we are to make any progress. Sadly, I'm thinking that probably won't be until next season now.

JerryGarcia · Apr 8, 2011

jonathanhotspur said:
So you don't think we prioritised the CL? Why were we resting players for it, then? Or risking them in it when they weren't fully fit?

What's the point in being in the Champions League and not giving it our best go? Just look at the reaction on here after we got knocked out of the UEFA cup a few years back for a start.

The fact is that the top clubs fight on all fronts and we're just not at that level yet (but we're close). I don't understand why you drama queens (not just based on the quoted comment) have to get so crazy after a loss? It's as if you're the Daily Mail and you're trying to sell yourselves with OTT headlines.

jonathanhotspur · Apr 8, 2011

JerryGarcia said:
What's the point in being in the Champions League and not giving it our best go? Just look at the reaction on here after we got knocked out of the UEFA cup a few years back for a start.

The fact is that the top clubs fight on all fronts and we're just not at that level yet (but we're close). I don't understand why you drama queens (not just based on the quoted comment) have to get so crazy after a loss? It's as if you're the Daily Mail and you're trying to sell yourselves with OTT headlines.

Of course I wanted to give it a go. Hell, I'd like to have given it a go in the domestic cups, too.

What's the point of being in the PL and not giving that a go as well?

StartingPrice · Apr 8, 2011

JerryGarcia said:
What's the point in being in the Champions League and not giving it our best go? Just look at the reaction on here after we got knocked out of the UEFA cup a few years back for a start.

The fact is that the top clubs fight on all fronts and we're just not at that level yet (but we're close). I don't understand why you drama queens (not just based on the quoted comment) have to get so crazy after a loss? It's as if you're the Daily Mail and you're trying to sell yourselves with OTT headlines.

This season, because we are not established as a regular CL side. We really don't want to be 1 season wonders. Consecuetive qualifications we would allow us to build the type of squad where it was virtually assured year-on-year, but we haven't reached that stage yet - which is why league position is far more important than CL progression, at this stage, unless we actually go on to win the bluddy thang

omg: to that one, then).

JerryGarcia · Apr 8, 2011

That's the point though, we are giving it a go but we're a few points off 4th having basically played without strikers all season.

I can understand people having a go at the management for failing to bring in a striker and I can understand the frustration at Peter Crouch for being a bit of an idiot. What I can't understand how anyone can question Harry's decision to play a strong team in the biggest game of our recent history. If he puts out the reserves against Madrid because we're worried about Stoke then it shows no ambition at all and who could blame our best players for leaving if that was the case.

We should be beating Stoke tomorrow with our first or second team and if we don't then I doubt it will be because of the Madrid game, it will most likely be because we don't take any of the five thousand chances we create.

JerryGarcia · Apr 8, 2011

StartingPrice said:
This season, because we are not established as a regular CL side. We really don't want to be 1 season wonders. Consecuetive qualifications we would allow us to build the type of squad where it was virtually assured year-on-year, but we haven't reached that stage yet - which is why league position is far more important than CL progression, at this stage, unless we actually go on to win the bluddy thang omg: to that one, then).

I don't think anyone is assured of the fourth spot for the next few years with us, City and Liverpool all playing at about the same level. Like I said in my above post though, we've just not been taking our chances even though we create so many of them. I strongly believe that we'll bring in new strikers who will score the extra goals that we need and we'll be a real force in all competitions. I also think that our top players can see this too and will stay with us see what happens.

WhiteStripe · Apr 8, 2011

Hoddle_Ledge said:
No not that...

"We have a very difficult game at home against Stoke on Saturday, especially given our record against some teams in the bottom half of the Premier League this season.

Michael Dawson and I were going through it the other day and we've dropped a lot of points against those sides. At Wigan last weekend, things just didn't seem to click, perhaps because the Real Madrid game was at the back of everyone's minds.

We all wanted to play in that match but maybe things have changed now after the result in the first leg. We're desperate to get back in the top four.

Last season, we beat Arsenal and Chelsea and those wins were the catalyst for us finishing fourth and we have them both to play again before the season ends. I believe playing against the stronger sides will bring out the best in us, so let's hope we get the same response as we managed last season."

Evening Standard

Might be wrong but I think this might be the first time our poor form against lower teams has been spoken about in the open.

Maybe JJ has mentioned this to Harry and he might actually do something about it?

JJ always comes across as a very grounded, astute individual in these ES articles. I honestly think he gets a raw deal from most.

StartingPrice · Apr 8, 2011

JerryGarcia said:
I don't think anyone is assured of the fourth spot for the next few years with us, City and Liverpool all playing at about the same level. Like I said in my above post though, we've just not been taking our chances even though we create so many of them. I strongly believe that we'll bring in new strikers who will score the extra goals that we need and we'll be a real force in all competitions. I also think that our top players can see this too and will stay with us see what happens.

Sorry, another time this issue has came up recently.
This issue: he asked for an explanation, I provide one. I didn't say it was 100% correct, or that I agreed with it...just that it is a plausible explanation.

I have made the same arguments you are making. I have said recently I don't think we will lose our top players if we don't qualify for CL next season, so it isn't necessarily a disaster. hell, I have even said several times 2 or 3 years ago that we could see the reconstitution of the Big 5, jostling for CL qualification and occasionally missing out.

But, he asked for an explanationand, to my mind, that is an obvious one, whether I agree with it or not...is all:-|

JerryGarcia · Apr 8, 2011

StartingPrice said:
Sorry, another time this issue has came up recently.
This issue: he asked for an explanation, I provide one. I didn't say it was 100% correct, or that I agreed with it...just that it is a plausible explanation.

I have made the same arguments you are making. I have said recently I don't think we will lose our top players if we don't qualify for CL next season, so it isn't necessarily a disaster. hell, I have even said several times 2 or 3 years ago that we could see the reconstitution of the Big 5, jostling for CL qualification and occasionally missing out.

But, he asked for an explanationand, to my mind, that is an obvious one, whether I agree with it or not...is all:-|

Don't worry, I don't even know if I agree with myself. It's not easy being a Spurs fan is it!

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