The Daily ITK Discussion thread January 19th 2012

Matrix said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. In all case an purposes it did look a disaster and still could be considered one.

We still dont have that prolific striker we have all wished for.

Ade is only here on loan, a short term fix.

Pavs still here, GDS is still here. We still only have 1 fulltime leftback and a shed load of rightbacks.

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Rose?

Last window was only seen as a disaster by those that hyped themselves up to think that we were going to sign Kaka or Aguero. We spent little, we reaped the rewards and got rid of a lot of deadwood. It didn't look like a disaster at all.

its good to see that the Levy/Redknapp 'axis of evil' no striker purchase theme is back up and running...must be transfer window time again....

Point #1 - Wages - we pay up to what we can afford for a player after assessing that that player deserves that amount of recompense..... Whatever Man City / Utd / Chelsea / Liverpool / even QPR pay is irrelevant. They arent spurs...... Onouha is a case in point...if thats QPR's benchmark god help em....... City cant get unwanted players off their books as we saw last TFW. We are having trouble offloading a lazy, disinterested Russian International to Russian Clubs FFS.

Point #2 - Getting a striker in at a reasonable price. The rumour doing the rounds up here is that Darren Bent will be wearing liverpool shirt soon for close on £30 million.... yep £30 million .... that means that in real terms Darren Bent is as valuable commodity as Zidane and Ronaldo on Value of Transfer fees (we are guilty of 15 million of this!) This is the same Liverpool who threw £35 million at a pony tailed girlfriend beating championship level one season wonder (and thats going really well for em)...this is the same liverpool who threw £17 million (as i recall) at an arrogant apparent racist who hasnt got the intelligence to utter an apology to placate a nation (rightly or wrongly accused it would have been so much easier to diffuse that particular issue) and you can see that one ending in tears. Bent will do what bent does.. get lucky, get a few goals, infuriate the scousers etc etc etc. But thats £82 million to find a reasonable quality, relatively reliable striker. What will they get back on saurez and carroll? £52 m? Dont think so do you? Would you be delighted if that was us?

Point #3 who is available ?
Huntelaar? Damaio (Think that one will end up another Diego/Ronaldinho rumour - remember that?)

We have adebayor on an absolute steal of a deal, and if his recent slight blip in form continues till may we give him back without a fight.....If he perks up we benefit till may. We have defoe who will score goals ... but he aint happy being on the bench...well good id be pissed if he was happy...... Admittedly my above arguements fall apart miserably when i get to "and we have pav..".... but then again im another knowitall blogger with nothing to lose other than my spirits if we dont have a triumphant end to the season.

Lets see what cards we get dealt and watch with baited breath eh?

Think it's probably safe to say there's jack shit going on.

StanSpur said:

You have me wrong, i don't disagree. I'm not talking about the need to sign £30m players or the next wonderkid. I'm simply talking about looking to replace players with someone noticable improvement. I think Parker is a perfect example, as a replacement for Jenas he is a much better player (not to mention better fit for the team in a Moneyball way) and he wasn't too expensive. There are players out there who are much better than Pav that we could possibly get and as i said i do like Fletcher and Long but i simply don't see them bing that much of an improvement on what we have especially when you consider just how much they would cost.

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Yeah agree, there seems to be a real belief here that Long and Fletcher would cost us under £10M and be willing to come and sit on our bench, let alone even be allowed to move by the clubs they play for!

Seriously, which teams really allow their star players (stars for their level) to leave in January? Yes money talks, but only if you are City or Chelsea who can afford to be stupid.

Oh or Liverpool... remember Carrol to Liverpool anyone? ANYONE?

We might get ina loan player I guess, but unless we go all out on Tevez for example (quality and playing for a team who want rid), I do not see us being able to sign anyone for sensible money.

The question becomes how much is islly and who warrants it (other than Tevez). Hazzard might well, in order to beat Cheslea or City to him, but can we afford him? Should we afford him?

I honestly do not see who it is we could realisticaly sign this window. We would have to spend big, so if that is the case, then it had better be a muttsnuts player rather than a short term back-up player.

There is a reason Man UTD and Arsenal brought back old pros. Yes they are short on money, but we are not exactly massively rich either. They saw what their teams lacked and they have temporarily plugged a hole.

Just a reminder Andy bloody Carrol, can you imagine how much will be asked for Fletcher or Long if that's the going rate for average Prem players from the UK???

R.

Riandor said:

Oh or Liverpool... remember Carrol to Liverpool anyone? ANYONE?
.......
Just a reminder Andy bloody Carrol, can you imagine how much will be asked for Fletcher or Long if that's the going rate for average Prem players from the UK???

R.

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So it aint just me laughing my arse off at that one then!!!!

RuskyM said:

Rose?

Last window was only seen as a disaster by those that hyped themselves up to think that we were going to sign Kaka or Aguero. We spent little, we reaped the rewards and got rid of a lot of deadwood. It didn't look like a disaster at all.

Click to expand...

Rose is a short term fix. He by trade is not a fulltime leftback. Time will tell if he transitions into a solid leftback. Hes done well when hes played so the signs are there.

Not about hype. We have known we need a considerable improvement in the striking department and maybe cover/competition for Bale/Lennon. We addressed the midfield problem with Parker which was good. To and extent we have reaped the rewards yes but we were always a good side hence we were in the champs league and came close to getting 4th again.
Like I said we should be so much better then we are now if we stopped faffing about.
Its not about resting on our laurels. Evolution is the key, not revoltution.

Norvern Munkey said:

its good to see that the Levy/Redknapp 'axis of evil' no striker purchase theme is back up and running...must be transfer window time again....

Point #1 - Wages - we pay up to what we can afford for a player after assessing that that player deserves that amount of recompense..... Whatever Man City / Utd / Chelsea / Liverpool / even QPR pay is irrelevant. They arent spurs...... Onouha is a case in point...if thats QPR's benchmark god help em....... City cant get unwanted players off their books as we saw last TFW. We are having trouble offloading a lazy, disinterested Russian International to Russian Clubs FFS.

Point #2 - Getting a striker in at a reasonable price. The rumour doing the rounds up here is that Darren Bent will be wearing liverpool shirt soon for close on £30 million.... yep £30 million .... that means that in real terms Darren Bent is as valuable commodity as Zidane and Ronaldo on Value of Transfer fees (we are guilty of 15 million of this!) This is the same Liverpool who threw £35 million at a pony tailed girlfriend beating championship level one season wonder (and thats going really well for em)...this is the same liverpool who threw £17 million (as i recall) at an arrogant apparent racist who hasnt got the intelligence to utter an apology to placate a nation (rightly or wrongly accused it would have been so much easier to diffuse that particular issue) and you can see that one ending in tears. Bent will do what bent does.. get lucky, get a few goals, infuriate the scousers etc etc etc. But thats £82 million to find a reasonable quality, relatively reliable striker. What will they get back on saurez and carroll? £52 m? Dont think so do you? Would you be delighted if that was us?

Point #3 who is available ?
Huntelaar? Damaio (Think that one will end up another Diego/Ronaldinho rumour - remember that?)

We have adebayor on an absolute steal of a deal, and if his recent slight blip in form continues till may we give him back without a fight.....If he perks up we benefit till may. We have defoe who will score goals ... but he aint happy being on the bench...well good id be pissed if he was happy...... Admittedly my above arguements fall apart miserably when i get to "and we have pav..".... but then again im another knowitall blogger with nothing to lose other than my spirits if we dont have a triumphant end to the season.

Lets see what cards we get dealt and watch with baited breath eh?

Click to expand...

Riandor said:

Yeah agree, there seems to be a real belief here that Long and Fletcher would cost us under £10M and be willing to come and sit on our bench, let alone even be allowed to move by the clubs they play for!

Seriously, which teams really allow their star players (stars for their level) to leave in January? Yes money talks, but only if you are City or Chelsea who can afford to be stupid.

Oh or Liverpool... remember Carrol to Liverpool anyone? ANYONE?

We might get ina loan player I guess, but unless we go all out on Tevez for example (quality and playing for a team who want rid), I do not see us being able to sign anyone for sensible money.

The question becomes how much is islly and who warrants it (other than Tevez). Hazzard might well, in order to beat Cheslea or City to him, but can we afford him? Should we afford him?

I honestly do not see who it is we could realisticaly sign this window. We would have to spend big, so if that is the case, then it had better be a muttsnuts player rather than a short term back-up player.

There is a reason Man UTD and Arsenal brought back old pros. Yes they are short on money, but we are not exactly massively rich either. They saw what their teams lacked and they have temporarily plugged a hole.

Just a reminder Andy bloody Carrol, can you imagine how much will be asked for Fletcher or Long if that's the going rate for average Prem players from the UK???

R.

Click to expand...

Good posts:clap:

Kaka on loan till the end of the season would be a squad improvement. Get him fit and interested again.

If you look at every club in the major leagues and look who their strikers are, then honestly assess where tottenham are on their radar, what they might cost, what wages they might want, what likely effect they would have on the premier league defences...you find yourself with a very small list that could tick all boxes... Then you have to try and get their respective clubs to agree to sell and agree that yes Pav is valuable in part exchange.

Dont mind evolution, but it doesnt happen in 5 minutes. Blackburn and Leeds tried to speed up the process and, ultimately, it didnt work. Chelsea and City it remains to be seen how those hobbyies eventually pan out.

United/City/Chelsea/Liverpool - None of these businesses can function as a self financing business unit.

In fact theres only us and Le Arse that can.

Hot-Spur said:

You know I'm starting to think us getting a striker would be a bigger miracle than turning water into wine :lol:

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its true, I cant remember the last time we had a great window, we have been incredibly lucky ade has played injured at times

I'm bored of the transfer window now.

Oh, and where the hell is Pottle?!

You know what kind of supporters get to throw a fit because our backup left back is Danny Rose and the forward that we got in the summer, who is a perfect fit, is a loan?

Supporters of a team contending for the title. Some of you should look at the table on occasion. Or watch a match and see how we play. Life's good.

Matrix said:

Rose is a short term fix. He by trade is not a fulltime leftback. Time will tell if he transitions into a solid leftback. Hes done well when hes played so the signs are there.

Not about hype. We have known we need a considerable improvement in the striking department and maybe cover/competition for Bale/Lennon. We addressed the midfield problem with Parker which was good. To and extent we have reaped the rewards yes but we were always a good side hence we were in the champs league and came close to getting 4th again.
Like I said we should be so much better then we are now if we stopped faffing about.
Its not about resting on our laurels. Evolution is the key, not revoltution.

Click to expand...

You contradict yourself - he's a short term fix, yet he needs time to become an LB. Rose has done far far better at LB then he has at LM, for both us and the U21's.

Adebayor is a considerable improvement. Defoe playing well is a considerable improvement. Not having to rely on Crouch or Keane is a considerable improvement.

We were a good side but we weren't a side expected to get top four this year. We added a proven keeper in Friedel who's been superb. We added young talent in Falque, Ceballos and Corblimey. We kept the general structure of the club in tact so we didn't have to wait for the players to gel.

The fact that we're 'faffing' about is saving us ridiculous amounts of money. We're not Liverpool or City or Chelsea, we can't go all out for any player we want. We're not Newcastle, who are having to keep buying players to replace those that they're selling. We're a top club who are trying to get to the top via smart business deals, and randomly going for any flavour of the month player is not a smart business deal. If Redknapp or Levy think we need to improve, we'll improve, but we'll do it cleverly with a player who we've heavily scouted and made sure we're getting a good deal.

Otherwise we're just Liverpool and really, who wants to be Liverpool?

For me, it's time to decide what sort of club we want to be, what we think our status in the game is.

Are we a club that's happy to flirt with the top 4/5/6 places in the prem, hoping that our signings come good, willing to accept that our better players will (sometimes justifiably) want to move on for the big bucks, happy to have one or two good seasons in the sun?

Or are going to decide that now that we've assembled one of the top 2/3 squads in the prem, we're going to make that one final push (financial outlay) to ensure that we can sustain sustaining CL football for the next 4/5/6+ seasons, establish ourselves while our rivals are in periods of transition/decline?


If its the former, then punts like Long and Pav will just about suffice, but with all the consequences that go with it.

But if it the latter, then we shouldn't be baulking at spending 20/25mil on a top class striker.

If the game is all about glory, and if a we aren't going to jeopardise our future financially, then now is the time to gamble.

beats1 said:

its true, I cant remember the last time we had a great window, we have been incredibly lucky ade has played injured at times

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Our last really good transfer was Modric, done completely out of the blue in either June or early July, thats how it should be done. Waking up in the morning to see news we've signed a new player without it being mentioned once in the press.

Its a good job Ade is getting a rest this weekend as he'll likely have to play from now until May with no breaks Eek

HappySpur said:

You know what kind of supporters get to throw a fit because our backup left back is Danny Rose and the forward that we got in the summer, who is a perfect fit, is a loan?

Supporters of a team contending for the title. Some of you should look at the table on occasion. Or watch a match and see how we play. Life's good.

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Whos throwing a fit? Just voicing opinion to constantly improve. We are not Fulham punching above our weight and are content with what we have.

Just want investment in the right places for an already good top squad.

Man United have done this for years. We have broken the top 4 monopoly and we want to stay.

Dont get me wrong we fully appreciate where we are and what we are contending, lets not make it a one season wonder with extreme short term goals.

HappySpur said:

You know what kind of supporters get to throw a fit because our backup left back is Danny Rose and the forward that we got in the summer, who is a perfect fit, is a loan?

Supporters of a team contending for the title. Some of you should look at the table on occasion. Or watch a match and see how we play. Life's good.

Click to expand...

:bowdown:

We have the coolest dude and most honest footballer i have ever seen as a left back, and he very rarely misses a game.....so its not an unreasonable gamble to have a danny rose as backup is it?

I stated a while ago that adebayor is perfect for us at the moment....he either wants a permanent move to spurs (so needs to impress) or a permanent move elsewhere (so needs to impress). If he impresses then Mr Levy has a bit of work to do. If he doesnt (and it most definitely isnt in ade's interest to not impress) he gets shipped back to his nightmare (albeit a well paid nightmare) at city..

spurslenny said:

For me, it's time to decide what sort of club we want to be, what we think our status in the game is.

Are we a club that's happy to flirt with the top 4/5/6 places in the prem, hoping that our signings come good, willing to accept that our better players will (sometimes justifiably) want to move on for the big bucks, happy to have one or two good seasons in the sun?

Or are going to decide that now that we've assembled one of the top 2/3 squads in the prem, we're going to make that one final push (financial outlay) to ensure that we can sustain sustaining CL football for the next 4/5/6+ seasons, establish ourselves while our rivals are in periods of transition/decline?


If its the former, then punts like Long and Pav will just about suffice, but with all the consequences that go with it.

But if it the latter, then we shouldn't be baulking at spending 20/25mil on a top class striker.

If the game is all about glory, and if a we aren't going to jeopardise our future financially, then now is the time to gamble.

Click to expand...

You my friend have hit the nail on the head. I wish i could have put it across like that. :bowdown:

HappySpur said:

You know what kind of supporters get to throw a fit because our backup left back is Danny Rose and the forward that we got in the summer, who is a perfect fit, is a loan?

Supporters of a team contending for the title. Some of you should look at the table on occasion. Or watch a match and see how we play. Life's good.

Click to expand...

...and thats why you are called HappySpur :grin:

Hot-Spur said:

Our last really good transfer was Modric, done completely out of the blue in either June or early July, thats how it should be done. Waking up in the morning to see news we've signed a new player without it being mentioned once in the press.

Its a good job Ade is getting a rest this weekend as he'll likely have to play from now until May with no breaks Eek

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True but i don't mind shit windows but no itk and signings just isn't enough for me to wake up in the mornings Eek