Lack Of leadership

Real_madyidd · Nov 23, 2012

To say we have a lack of leadership is harsh. We have them, they just aren't the right people:

Dawson: Not suited to the pressing game- great leader though
Gallas: Vocal - but over the hill (probably)
Brad - Vocal - but slow off his line and not suited to the tactics.
Parker - been out since AVB came here.

So, at the moment we have no suitable leader on the pitch. The OP is correct. Lloris will become one though (especially after last night and given he is France Captain). Sandro leads by example. Scott Parker Naturally presses and is vocal, can't wait to have him back!

kaz Hirai · Nov 23, 2012

how about that tackle from Sandro on the Lazio player in the 2nd half when they were on the break.

Facking hell that boy is getting better and better, he deserves to have a top quality hard working midfield around him. not the lazy shits huddlestone, bale, dempsey and lennon

Real_madyidd · Nov 23, 2012

Spurs_Bear said:
Yes we may well have been, but adding Huddlestone into the mix because of these mythical 'long balls to Bale' is not going to make us better offensively and a lot weaker defensively.

Using the word "mythical" just makes it look like yopu have not been paying any attention. The fact is Hudd is a better long passer than anyone else on our team. We have all seen it, it is not a "myth" - against some teams it will be useful (especially in Europe)- but normally I think most of us would prefer someone else in the team. He is an option, and quite a good one.

Real_madyidd · Nov 23, 2012

kaz Hirai said:
how about that tackle from Sandro on the Lazio player in the 2nd half when they were on the break.

Facking hell that boy is getting better and better, he deserves to have a top quality hard working midfield around him. not the lazy shits huddlestone, bale, dempsey and lennon

Maybe we have too many lazy shits, but come on, we are Spurs, we love a lazy shit! Why doesn't Sandro "deserve" to play with a Ginola type player? I would happiliy have two Ginolas on the wings and two sandros in the centre.

Spurs_Bear · Nov 23, 2012

Real_madyidd said:
Using the word "mythical" just makes it look like yopu have not been paying any attention. The fact is Hudd is a better long passer than anyone else on our team. We have all seen it, it is not a "myth" - against some teams it will be useful (especially in Europe)- but normally I think most of us would prefer someone else in the team. He is an option, and quite a good one.

Trust me mate, I've been watching Hudd too closely for years now, the long pass that he can provide may not be 'mythical', but certainly the amount of times it has happened over the years and the high regard that people hold it in is certainly mythical.

ShelfSide18 · Nov 23, 2012

Spurs_Bear said:
Trust me mate, I've been watching Hudd too closely for years now, the long pass that he can provide may not be 'mythical', but certainly the amount of times it has happened over the years and the high regard that people hold it in is certainly mythical.

As I said last night, when have we ever seen Huddlestone play a ball like Tom Carroll did for Bale's wrongly offside goal?

Hudd can hit a nice diagonal long pass, so can Dawson in fact, but only when given the freedom of the centre circle so he can take 5 minutes to compose himself which by then means the surprise element of a long diagonal is lost as the opposition are nicely in shape.

As for leaders, Gallas is the only real leader I have seen this season. Sandro is vocal, but I don't think a leader yet, not like Parker anyway. I think Kaboul was growing as a leader too, but is obviously injured, and I can see Verts growing into that kid of player too.

There is a difference between being vocal and being a leader, Walker is vocal but can barely lead himself 5 minutes without cocking up at the moment, Sandro is loud and I think will become a great leader, but not yet.

People are saying we should get Gallas out of the side, but to me that's bollocks because he's the only leader we have at the moment, and that leadership has won us points this season.

eddiebailey · Nov 23, 2012

whitelightwhiteheat said:
Gallas is probably the only genuine leader we have fit currently.

Well there's Dawson...

ShelfSide18 · Nov 23, 2012

Spurs_Bear said:
Parker
Sandro Dembele

This could be what we have been missing. There was a stat from earlier in the season that Sandro and Dembele as a pairing had won possession more times than any other pairing in the League, the only problem was this was literally on the edge of our own area. With Parker to marshall the area in front of the back 4, it would allow Sandro and Dembele to advance/press further higher up the pitch, meaning that when they win the ball back in that area, instead of having to clear the danger, we can use the impetus to build attacks from the there. This was something that was AVB's trademark at Porto.

I said it last year while there were people all over the place saying we were better off without Parker. It was bollocks then and it's bollocks now, we are missing him immensely.

Not against that, Bear, but I think that midfield lacks someone to set a tempo (my buzz word at the moment). I think Tom Carroll is that man, certainly the best we have for that role currently. Last night for instance, he came off for Dembele with 15 left and still made the most successful passes out of anyone on both teams.

I think Parker is fucking great, and we have missed him but I do think that with Dembele not being the kind to shirk his defensive responsibility then him and Sandro or Parker is plenty solid enough to start winning the ball high up the field. One of the chief reasons we get pulled so deep is because we can't keep the bloody ball. Tom Carroll can do that, and he also has the benefit of being coached well so he knows his defensive responsibility too. Get the lad playing is what I say.

felmani26 · Nov 23, 2012

The theory that Huddlestone will shine against lesser sides or sides that don't particularly press well has been blown well and truly out of the water.

Huddlestone's all round game is no where near a standard that is befitting our club and has justifiably fallen well down the pecking order.

ShelfSide18 · Nov 23, 2012

Dan Ashcroft said:
I think Verts and Lloris will grow into those roles as they settle into the club.

To some extent though, if our team is becoming more collective and playing to a system, the need for individuals to stand up becomes less. I'm quite into leadership theory, and shared/distributed leadership has become the norm in most spheres now, except football. Chris Hughton actually has some pioneering ideas on translating these empowered rather than commanded ideas from business/society into the game.

That is interesting (do you have any links for this sort of stuff?). Unfortunately our team collective is sharing and distributing one thing recently... panic, passivity and the unwilling to take responsibility.

ShelfSide18 · Nov 23, 2012

felmani26 said:
The theory that Huddlestone will shine against lesser sides or sides that don't particularly press well has been blown well and truly out of the water.

Huddlestone's all round game is no where near a standard that is befitting our club and has justifiably fallen well down the pecking order.

I think it was absolutely confirmed when Tom H and Tom C lined up together against Maribor, here we had 2 Cm passers and the youngster outshone the guy who has been around for 7 years in broadly the role he has always been meant to play.

felmani26 · Nov 23, 2012

ShelfSide18 said:
I think it was absolutely confirmed when Tom H and Tom C lined up together against Maribor, here we had 2 Cm passers and the youngster outshone the guy who has been around for 7 years in broadly the role he has always been meant to play.

Aye, and it wasn't because Carroll was spraying balls left. right and centre from deep, it was because he was occupying good pockets of space, providing an outlet, actually MOVING and keeping things ticking over nicely which is all a pre-requisite for a CM which Huddlestone supposedly is.

I have absolutely no qualms in selling him in January and nor would I feel threatened in the slightest of this coming back to haunt us.

Harry_Snatch · Nov 23, 2012

paige09 said:
I agree that Sandro is better than Hudd but Hudd can feed long balls to Bale.. I'm not saying it's ideal but until we can get a better passing Mid we just need more offensive options. Even Carroll Parker Dembele or Parker Dembele Siggurdson strike me as more interesting offensively.

This isn't to slight Sandro at all the guy has been one of our top players all year but we were really better offensively last year when he wasn't starting.

Wasn't that more to do with having Modric and VDV in the side and a fit Adebayor?
Sandro adds more offensively than Parker for sure and does as much defensively if not more. This thread is about leadership though and Parker is certainly more your old school style leader. I think we were always going to have a void when Ledley hung them up as well.
the leaders now are:

Lloris, Gallas, Vertonghen, Dawson and Parker.

The problem is that out of all of those only Lloris and Vertonghen feature in our strongest 11 if we play 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2.
Parker features in a 4-3-3.

I guess I forgot Kaboul tbf. He is a leader too. Him and Verts is the choice CB partnership eventually.

Rout-Ledge · Nov 23, 2012

playboypaul said:
I think AVB's tactics are being undermimed by the fact that no one is keeping to them

Yeah, that'd do it.

playboypaul · Nov 23, 2012

paige09 said:
I agree that Sandro is better than Hudd but Hudd can feed long balls to Bale.. I'm not saying it's ideal but until we can get a better passing Mid we just need more offensive options. Even Carroll Parker Dembele or Parker Dembele Siggurdson strike me as more interesting offensively.

This isn't to slight Sandro at all the guy has been one of our top players all year but we were really better offensively last year when he wasn't starting.

AVB does not want us to be playing long ball football at all. So Hudds 'talent', is not needed.

whitelightwhiteheat · Nov 23, 2012

eddiebailey said:
Well there's Dawson...

There's a difference between throwing yourself into last ditch challenges cos you've been caught out of position... and leadership!

I know some people can't grasp that concept though, so....

mpickard2087 · Nov 23, 2012

I don't think its leadership neccessarily, there just seems to be a basic lack of communicstion throughout the team, as if no-one talks to each other.

You see so many little examples of it each and every game right now. Example from last night... ball loops up in the air towards Sandro, he has acres of time and space, but goes up for the header and helps it on up the pitch and gives possession away. All it took was a simple call to let him know, but it didnt happen.

They make the game so much harder than it should be.

TheGreenLily · Nov 23, 2012

chinaman said:
Gallas is the only player with leadership qualities right now.

Probably why he was going to stay and Dawson was going to go.... Just a thought.

yiddo · Nov 24, 2012

I dont particularly think Gallas is a great leader, but seems he is the best we have who is fit anyway.

Dawson + defensive high line = suicide
So unfortunately apart from possibly this weekend against Wet Spam, I cant see him being involved much.

I raised concerns about leadership just after the window closed, I stand by it....
Unless you are a superstar (which we have none of) I do not believe in new players being leaders in a team, it just doesnt happen.
So once we select a side that we feel can work and play the required system, you look for the leaders in the 11.... and you are struggling. This is why I think Parker will be straight in the team once fully fit.

Syn_13 · Nov 24, 2012

Bobbins said:
Agree, just one of the reasons we could do with Parker back.

I'm still desperate to see Parker, Sandro and Dembele playing together in midfield, with Dembele and Sandro a little further forward - that would absolutely bully the oppo.

It would run other teams ragged in midfield and be very physical but it may not provide a lot of creativity, with Dembele being the only guy that has any real guile going forward there.

But then again, it's not like we're brimming with creativity now is it?!

Worth a shot at least.

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