AVB's instructions a detriment to the team?

daehanmingook · Dec 23, 2012

The last thing I want to do is post another unproductive thread castigating the imperfections of AVB, but I began to consider the possibility whilst perusing this article from The Independent (posted URL below if not working). In particular is a quote by Michu which goes

He gives the players freedom; he hardly corrects you while you are on the pitch and that gives players so much confidence

Keeping in mind that this is also the approach of our beloved(?) former leader 'Arry, I wonder if the lack of conviction in the final third, and indeed the ability to score as we have last season, has something to do with AVB's constant, rigid instruction? Now I'm not one who doubts his coaching ability, and I do think he has the potential to grow into one of the best football managers in the game, but as he is still learning his trade (youngest manager in the Premiership) I wonder if perhaps one of his current flaws is in fact the uber-rigid tactics and endless instructions to his players, which hinder them from playing to the best of their ability. Would it be better if he, say, trusted his players more to make the right decisions at the appropriate times, or are the strict instructions really necessary?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...up-football-is-not-life-or-death-8429612.html

Show Pony · Dec 23, 2012

If AVB had Modric and VDV we would score more.

Rumbaldo · Dec 23, 2012

Players always have freedom. AVB cannot control every movement they make or decision they take (sung along to the police)
What I'm sure Andre does is - give the players a role to play, a job to perform how they go about ensuring this gets done is down to them.
I'm sure Defoe could come out and say
" he gives us all detailed instructions a 600 page dossier infact, we know and rehearse every single step we take (more police lyrics) during the week. Being so prepared gives us a massive confidence boost..... Definitely"

So to summize it's horses for courses. People always look for a solution with their past problems in mind maybe michu's last manager was a bit more detailed in his instructions than laudrup, michu is having the season of his life ergo its because laudrup tells them to just go out there and run about a bit. When infact it could be because of what he learned under his previous manager is paying dividends in these new situations he is finding himself in.

Misfit · Dec 23, 2012

The problem yesterday would have been overcome yesterday with even just one of Modric or VDV in the team, nevermind both of them.

Our midfield is terrible, in terms of intelligence and creativity. We didn't take a step back in that respect this summer, we took about 5 or 6 yrs off all our lives. Needs addressing and quickly or we will fall short and will deserve to.

Hell, just a genuine goal threat from midfield would be nice. Syggi hasn't filled that role. Simple as.

Show Pony · Dec 23, 2012

Siggy hasn't filled the role or been given a chance to fill the role yet

DEFchenkOE · Dec 23, 2012

Misfit said:
The problem yesterday would have been overcome yesterday with even just one of Modric or VDV in the team, nevermind both of them.

Our midfield is terrible, in terms of intelligence and creativity. We didn't take a step back in that respect this summer, we took about 5 or 6 yrs off all our lives. Needs addressing and quickly or we will fall short and will deserve to.

Hell, just a genuine goal threat from midfield would be nice. Syggi hasn't filled that role. Simple as.

Disagree, we have played plenty of games with Mod and VdV where we also seemed devoid of any ideas against teams that parked the bus. Used to happen quite a few times I'm sure.

Misfit · Dec 23, 2012

DEFchenkOE said:
Disagree, we have played plenty of games with Mod and VdV where we also seemed devoid of any ideas against teams that parked the bus. Used to happen quite a few times I'm sure.

Oh I agree. It's not a surefire way of unlocking defences who are determined to sit deep and defend. As you rightly point out, it was hard enough with 2 of the best creative CMs in the league. As we've seen all season long so far, it's hopeless right now. We'll not have a few games here and there where we look lost and rudderless. It pretty much defines our play now.

So I'll still go with my original point.

Stavrogin · Dec 23, 2012

We don't know the extent of his instructions or how players react to them, so it's not worthwhile speculating about that too much...

Although, I do think confidence has been the overriding problem this season.

Our best spell was probably against West Ham where, for half an hour, we were literally swaggering about. But that first half was not dissimilar to Stoke. Our problem seems to be that when we don't score we get desperate - and consequently, when we don't score enough we get desperate.

I really don't think it's lack of concentration that causes us to totally loose the momentum when we have a narrow lead. It's this nervousness, this same lack of composure that leads to snatching at chancing and taking hopeless long shots; the same lack of confidence that has led to most of our players looking a little subdued and making more basic mistakes.

What's the cause? It could be instructions but there are plenty of other explanations. We have a lot of new players and players coming back after injury etc.

Misfit · Dec 23, 2012

Show Pony said:
Siggy hasn't filled the role or been given a chance to fill the role yet

Indeed. I wasn't menaing that in a " fuck himm, he's completely worthless and should loaded into a cannon" kind of way. Just that, as of yet, he's not the midfield goal machine he was for Swansea last season. He's still only been at the club for a matter of weeks. Plenty of time and I hope he does settle and become that player.

Right now, about as useful as tits on a fish.

eViL · Dec 23, 2012

Remind me what Harry Redknapp was doing when he was 35..

Show Pony · Dec 23, 2012

Misfit said:
Indeed. I wasn't menaing that in a " fuck himm, he's completely worthless and should loaded into a cannon" kind of way. Just that, as of yet, he's not the midfield goal machine he was for Swansea last season. He's still only been at the club for a matter of weeks. Plenty of time and I hope he does settle and become that player.

Right now, about as useful as tits on a fish.

He is young, give him time

Show Pony · Dec 23, 2012

eViL said:
Remind me what Harry Redknapp was doing when he was 35..

Selling a big shipment of left shoes with frank Lampard senior wasn't it?

YiddoBirdy · Dec 23, 2012

Instructions from managers only act as a guideline for players. When their on the field the majority of the time the players will do what comes natural to them. For instance if we need a goal and one of our players see's space to run into, they will run into that space no matter how complexed his pre match instructions given to him were. AVB's instructions doesn't decrease our chances in scoring, that's rubbish.

fortworthspur · Dec 23, 2012

AVB is doing a great job. If you'd told me on September 1 we'd be tied for 4th halfway through the season I wouldnt have believed you. We lack the flash of past teams, but are much more fundamentally sound.

markiespurs · Dec 23, 2012

Misfit said:
The problem yesterday would have been overcome yesterday with even just one of Modric or VDV in the team, nevermind both of them.

Our midfield is terrible, in terms of intelligence and creativity. We didn't take a step back in that respect this summer, we took about 5 or 6 yrs off all our lives. Needs addressing and quickly or we will fall short and will deserve to.

Hell, just a genuine goal threat from midfield would be nice. Syggi hasn't filled that role. Simple as.

Disagree with this

Yesterday wasn't our best performance of the season, but this game needs to be put into it's proper context. Stoke have conceded just 13 goals in 18 games this season and Stoke have also had more goalless draws this season than any other club in Europe's top five divisions (5) and was their 10th draw overall.

We have had plenty of games over the last few years with both Modric and VDV in the team and still not been able to break teams down.

Misfit · Dec 23, 2012

Yes, I answered this above and don't disagree with you, markie, that even with those players we failed at times to break teams down. They stick out like sore thumbs tbh. We can all remember them.

This season, however, the games where we've been at our creative, free-flowing best stick out like sore thumbs. I'm not saying we'd be able to brush all teams aside. History proves we wouldn't.

The league being a little topsy turvy again is helping us and I'm not laying the blame at anyone's feet. I don't think anyone at the club is dropping the ball. But 60 pts, even in a league where anything and everything can happen, isn't going to get us where we, the club itself and those who own and run it, want to go.

Gedson100 · Dec 23, 2012

Show Pony said:
If AVB had Modric and VDV we would score more.

Plenty of times over the last couple of years we still struggled to put away teams, even with Modric & Vdv

rich75 · Dec 23, 2012

eViL said:
Remind me what Harry Redknapp was doing when he was 35..

Well, as I was interested I had a look, he was in his first year coaching Bournemouth. They were in the shit when he took over but avoided relegation and beat Manchester utd in the FA cup. 3 years later wen he was 38 they won the division with the highest points total in their history.

Sure, he wasn't in the top league or playing in Europe but then he played until he was 34, still, he was doing ok.

beats1 · Dec 23, 2012

jair1970 said:
Plenty of times over the last couple of years we still struggled to put away teams, even with Modric & Vdv

Agree but despite this, the lack of chances we creating also has to do alot with Defoe playing over Ade, he use to bring players in to play and frankly he opened up space yesterday like when Bale was on the right and cut in, he drew their defence to the far post and the box was empty except at the far post. Not one midfielder was running towards goal and Defoe ran far post battle with Huth with the header next to Ade. I couldnt believe what I was seeing at that point I turned stream off since it was clear we had no brains

3Dnata · Dec 23, 2012

AVB would seem to have to get 4 points each game and win by at least 5-0 to prevent these threads.

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