AVB's instructions a detriment to the team?

[Wellspurs]

If AVB had John White, Jimmy Greaves, Bobby Smith, Juergen Klinsmann, Alan Gilzean, Teddy Sheringham, Glen Hoddle, Gary Lineker, Steve Archibald, Martin Peters, David Ginola, Dimitar Berbatov or Clive Allen we would score more. What's your point?

Yeah but how many would we let in? 13 attackers and no defenders!

 

[DIEHARD]

If AVB had Modric and VDV we would score more.

If Harry had Berbatov we would have also scored more.

The way I view it players dont want too much instructions hence the reason Harry is as he is i.e less tactical and more player management. Players want to play and enjoy their football not be told in great detail what to do, how to run, where to pass etc. Then again you need some of that against the tougher opposition. Its a balancing act.

 

[stevenqoz]

On a more general note I find it comical that the assistant coaches stand with their clipboards and read substitute players pages of 'instructions' before they allow them to enter the field of play....often for just a couple of minutes. Game coaching is largely about ongoing fluidity through tactical movements of players and formations. It is surely in the heads of the assistants how can they not just verbally brief the players? Chrissy Hughton was one of the first 'clip board ' kings but now there seem to be many. Perhaps it says more about the limited communication skills apparent with the coaching staff than anything else....AVB included stands with his arm around the player before sending them on.

 

[Shadydan]

OP - No, I don't think it is anything to do with his instructions.

It is an old, old argument, really - AVB is hardly the 1st coach to issue his players with tactical instructions that he wants them to stick to.
There are two fundamental approaches:
1) Thorough preparation and instructions, and
2) Instinctive leadership that encourages players to play off confidence and inspiration.

Both approaches have their draw-backs - we saw some of them under Mr Redknapp, at which time many members of this forum were calling for a more tactically astute approach.

I think the best approach is somewhere in-between the two.

Why do you think AVB is inflexible? I have heard this said a few times this season, especially by journalists - who seem to have decided he was inflexible last season (and not that hewas given an impossible fecking job by Roman fecking Abramho-fecking-vich fecking). But it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny at all. We all know he has a preferred style of play - a 4-3-3 - and yet, due to personnel limitations, he has not only never had the chance to play it, but he hasn't bitched about it, or tried to force totally unsuitable players to play it. he has just got on with things. Part of him just getting on with things has seen us play with a lone striker (again, largely through constrictions), and also a 4-4-2 (which I am sure he would rarely play through conviction). He has also had a plethora of players absent at one time or another that has required him to play players out of position. I really can't see what is inflexible about all of this and really can't see why folk keep repeating the mantra that he is inflexible - apart, of course, from the fact that the myopic media have said it is so, and so it must be.

We have no idea how rigid his instructions are.
Yes, players do need things repeat endlessly - it doesn't matter how many times you tell some players to hold their position, they will still wander outside it and leave a big gap to be exploited.

Just look at the way we have been dropping off and eventually inviting pressure on in games - especially when we are in the total ascendant. I don't believe that is under AVB's minute instruction. I do think it is against any instruction he is giving - so, yeah, I think they probably do need to be constantly told to push up and stop dropping deep and just wish they would listen.

As others have pointed out, it isn't like we were free-flowing against teams like Stoke under Mr Redknapp, either.

But most importantly, again, this argument is as old as the hills - they were having the same argument between Brian Clough's the ball is your friend football, versus Don Revie's dossier for every player, for every game, for every team approach. And I don't think that it is fair to imagine that Brian Clough was a tactical buffoon, or that Don Revie stifled his players into having no creativity whatsoever - it is more complex than that.

And from a personal perspective: it's not fecking rocket science. If a player really is so stupid that he can't remember basic instructions, no matter how intensely they are drilled into their heads, like hug the touchline, or don't let the striker drop of you or get your cross into the back post because <PLAYER X> will be making a run there or don't give the ball to Defoe 'cos he's a greedy then, maybe, we should just get some players with more intellectual ability than a flea

/RANT

Everyone ought to take a step back and read this, beautiful.



Strange thread in all honesty.

 

[Adam]

This isn't an AVB bash as it's a lot to do with the players at his disposal, but unless his instructions are to play badly, does anyone actually know what genuine tactical changes Boas has implemented? Again, not a criticism, just a question really, as I've been to all the home games and haven't sat there one and said 'oh yes, what just happened is clearly an instruction from the management team that we have been working on in training.' Hell, we still tap free kicks and don't leave anyone up when defending corners!

 

[sloth]

The last thing I want to do is post another unproductive thread castigating the imperfections of AVB, but I began to consider the possibility whilst perusing this article from The Independent (posted URL below if not working). In particular is a quote by Michu which goes




Keeping in mind that this is also the approach of our beloved(?) former leader 'Arry, I wonder if the lack of conviction in the final third, and indeed the ability to score as we have last season, has something to do with AVB's constant, rigid instruction? Now I'm not one who doubts his coaching ability, and I do think he has the potential to grow into one of the best football managers in the game, but as he is still learning his trade (youngest manager in the Premiership) I wonder if perhaps one of his current flaws is in fact the uber-rigid tactics and endless instructions to his players, which hinder them from playing to the best of their ability. Would it be better if he, say, trusted his players more to make the right decisions at the appropriate times, or are the strict instructions really necessary?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...up-football-is-not-life-or-death-8429612.html

Too many assumptions.

 

[daehanmingook]

Too many assumptions.

cool story bro

 

[senseispab]

This isn't an AVB bash as it's a lot to do with the players at his disposal, but unless his instructions are to play badly, does anyone actually know what genuine tactical changes Boas has implemented? Again, not a criticism, just a question really, as I've been to all the home games and haven't sat there one and said 'oh yes, what just happened is clearly an instruction from the management team that we have been working on in training.' Hell, we still tap free kicks and don't leave anyone up when defending corners!

I get the impression he's trying to adapt us to play a passing game, a high line, and intense pressing all over the pitch when we lose the ball.

AVB seems like a thinker to me, and I'm hoping he gets the time/breaks to continue to learn his art.

 

[Show Pony]

A manager trying to get his team to think about tactics and what is going on the pitch? How refreshing....

Next we will be hearing he actually runs training sessions instead of belittling a member of his squad to make himself look like a hero...

 

[TheGreenLily]

If Harry had Berbatov we would have also scored more.

The way I view it players dont want too much instructions hence the reason Harry is as he is i.e less tactical and more player management. Players want to play and enjoy their football not be told in great detail what to do, how to run, where to pass etc. Then again you need some of that against the tougher opposition. Its a balancing act.

That is why England have been soooooooo shit for so long.

Quite frankly, any player (IMO) can sod off if they want to think like that, as it is quite clear from the past several years that many of our players clearly need to be told when to pass the ball, as they are to stupid to work it for themselves.

 

[playboypaul]

Oh I agree. It's not a surefire way of unlocking defences who are determined to sit deep and defend. As you rightly point out, it was hard enough with 2 of the best creative CMs in the league. As we've seen all season long so far, it's hopeless right now. We'll not have a few games here and there where we look lost and rudderless. It pretty much defines our play now.

So I'll still go with my original point.

Well, we 'aint doing too bad for goals this season. 34 scored. Equal with Citeh. Only the Chavs 37 and Manure 48 have scored more.

 

[chinaman]

Obviously Harry, who played for West Ham, didn't graduate from the famed West Ham Academy in the 50's and early 60's. So many renowned managers once played for West Ham and they had the practice of staying behind and talk about tactics. Older fans will testify to that.

 

[wishkah]

I havnt read all the previous all of the post so apologies if this has Lreasy been covered. A few of the posts my phone did load showed discussions around players available to play a fluid style.

However I think it's more to do a conjured media perception; that a manager must be a polar end end of the "man manager v tactician" spectrum. With Harry the media makes it seem that we have gone from one end of the scale to the other. I think AVB has the a unity to give us that extra missing peice tactically yet I'm sure he doesn't prevent freedom. In fact his "minor corrections" as noted in the opening post are more likely to be of value.