Ratings vs Manchester United

only1waddle · Dec 1, 2013

felmani26 said:
Perhaps but then to not even have a bench role is curious and sends the subliminal message that he was more culpable at City than others.

It would be a toss up i suppose, drop Lamela and a few bad performances can be attributed, lack of settling in etc, drop Townsend and that may have bought a shit storm on AVB, lesser of 2 evils, i don't think this was the game even for a bench spot, we need him in games like a few of the ones coming up, in the 10 role.

felmani26 · Dec 1, 2013

Legend10 said:
I thought Moussa next to his old partner Sandro was our platform today, these 2 before Sandro's injury last season were a great pairing!

it's certainly not a bad pairing granted but if you inhibit Dembele slightly by making him sit then Capoue offers more from deep and certainly doesn't compromise great defensive screening - theoretically anyway.

In any case all our central midfielders will play key roles this season and see plenty of game time.

felmani26 · Dec 1, 2013

only1waddle said:
It would be a toss up i suppose, drop Lamela and a few bad performances can be attributed, lack of settling in etc, drop Townsend and that may have bought a shit storm on AVB, lesser of 2 evils, i don't think this was the game even for a bench spot, we need him in games like a few of the ones coming up, in the 10 role.

Could well be.

There was plenty of encouragement today but it's by no means a template on how we should line up every home game as we benefited from an away team which had ambitions the same as ours which was to go for the win and resulted in a more open affair.

Of course it helped that we attacked with more purpose and vigour than in previous outings and we will likely line up something similar to our next home match against Liverpool.

Fulham will be the interesting one - we will no doubt rotate a few players but to what extent remains to be seen.

ShelfSide18 · Dec 1, 2013

Legend10 said:
Ok this is a discussion not an argument so take my comments the right way. If Paulinho drops off too much when they are playing out when we win the ball back we are right back were we were before with not enough options forward to play to and so our play becomes slow and predictable, back to square one. Paulinho not dropping most of the time and giving us another forward option immediately we won the ball is what allowed us to move it so much quicker. We may have had much less of the ball than usual but we looked far far more dangerous with it. The chance Paulinho made for Soldado first half is a classic example of how this worked and was a chance we could never normally have made.

We sacrificed some possession to be more dangerous and we looked far far better because of it, plus we played with round in pegs in all of our round holes!

Also the pace of the game suited our payers so much more than the slow intricate football we've been seeing.

Soldado just looked so much better and happier to have a player in near constant contact with him!

Again, I can't disagree with this - and your point is valid. I just think we could have minimised their obvious danger down the right flank (they've obviously been working on that under Moyes, the way they worked the ball to Valencia I thought was very good. I just think we could have forced them to play inside into their weakest area of the field in CM from the back a lot more. And yeah, good discussion, no argument here.

The problem remains though, what happens when the next team rocks up at WHL and refuses to commit 2 players beyond their own penalty spot? Utd gave us a run up, most sides won't. This is the biggest question for me, and as yetr we haven't found the right answer.

haslemereyid · Dec 1, 2013

Back from the game not going to give ratings because I don't think any single player today should be singled out

It was IMO the best performance of the season with the team playing with an urgency from the kick off that we haven't seen so far this year. It's amazing what a difference players playing with desire makes. Whether or not they have taken the criticism to heart I don't know but more of it please

Lennon I thought was instrumental in getting the crowd behind the team after a rough period - his work rate and desire shone and certainly gave me hope for the future

Walker has to be a contender for the athlete of the year - chiriches showed he is going to be a serious player for us and the effort from the midfielders was just immense

I was a seriously proud spurs fan come the final whistle

jonathanhotspur · Dec 1, 2013

ShelfSide18 said:
Nope, think you've misinterpreted my friend.

I don't believe I did.

only1waddle · Dec 1, 2013

ShelfSide18 said:
Again, I can't disagree with this - and your point is valid. I just think we could have minimised their obvious danger down the right flank (they've obviously been working on that under Moyes, the way they worked the ball to Valencia I thought was very good. I just think we could have forced them to play inside into their weakest area of the field in CM from the back a lot more. And yeah, good discussion, no argument here.

The problem remains though, what happens when the next team rocks up at WHL and refuses to commit 2 players beyond their own penalty spot? Utd gave us a run up, most sides won't. This is the biggest question for me, and as yetr we haven't found the right answer.

Minimal changes with a team that sit back, but slot Lamela/Holtby into the 10 role, i think it is more about keeping a rhythm going now, play on performance, fatigue and opposition, not on change to be nice and give someone a game.

mpickard2087 · Dec 1, 2013

What was most pleasing today was that there was a complete change in attitude and mindset. Gone were the emotionless, docile 'robots'. They seemed to wake from their slumber today and show some urgency, spirit and the mentality to get forward and win the game.

This was pleasing to see, and I expect to see this every game from now on.

The actual football we played, well for the first 30 mins it wasn't bad We seemed to play a bit more direct rather than waiting for an opportunity to present itself and played wider and looked to stretch the opposition, rather than narrow. A definite change of approach. We were rocked by the equaliser however and then didn't ever really establish the initiative after that. Sandro's strike in the second half came out of nowhere and you would have hoped that would be enough, but we immediately relinquished the lead and couldn't build on that and see the game out.

Its frustrating to gift them two soft goals after twice going ahead. For the first Dembele got pushed off the ball a bit easily and then I think Walker makes a lazy prod at the ball, hoping to clear it with the outside of his foot, and it goes terribly wrong. For the second they get a fortunate break, but Dawson gets tied in knots as the ball gets played in behind him and we have to accept that this was the 1 time out of maybe 20 that Lloris rushes out and things go wrong.

I don't really know what else to say about the game, I think on the day the teams were fairly even. Lots of hustle and bustle but a lack of quality in all truth. Still a work in progress. Lets hope that the players show this emotion and fight in all games form now on.

Thoughts:

Lloris - Shouldn't have come out for that ball. An error, but unless this becomes a regular occurrence we have to accept it given the amount of times he saves us rushing out.

Walker - The vast majority of his game today was very good. Got up and back, good set piece deliveries and got a goal. One soft bit of play though that cost a goal...

Dawson - Sorry to all his fans, but he is barely hanging on to his place in this team. Getting caught out by pace more and more, drops in when the rest of them are holding the line. An Ok performance, but I cannot wait to see Chiriches-Vertonghen at centre back.

Chiriches - One silly bit of play that could have been punished but on the whole a composed figure at the back and dealt with everything he needed to, including helping out Vertonghen at times. Looks a very good signing, the surprise of the bunch given how well he has settled in.

Vertonghen - How to rate this, knowing his limitations at left back... Doesn't like defending the wide areas, struggles in a foot race down the line and Valencia caused him problems. Stuck at it and tried his best. So-so.

Sandro - Did well. Some important blocks and scored with a fantastic strike.

Dembele - I thought he started quietly, but grew into the game. Solid.

Lennon - Had 30 mins where he looked extremely dangerous. I liked how he got himself into position for the chance he hit with his left foot. That is what we need from our wide players, playing high up the pitch making diagonal runs looking to get in behind the defensive line, rather than in front of it. I think he picked up a knock and did nothing in the 2nd half, sub was fair enough.

Paulinho - Seemed to be playing as a second striker. Ran around quite a bit and put in the miles, but his fortunes were linked to the team as a whole. 30 good mins then struggled for output.

Chadli - Worked hard, helped out Vertonghen. Held his width well for the most part but also popped up infield at times. A performance for the team.

Soldado - That was a bit better today, but still... Missed a good chance and I don't agree with some of the runs he makes. I said in another thread, he is being too 'Defoe' and always looking for the cutback. The ball also needs to stick better when its played into him. Signs of class but still too hit and miss for me right now.

Townsend - Mixed bag.
Defoe - Nothing of note.
Sigurdsson - Ditto.

ShelfSide18 · Dec 1, 2013

jonathanhotspur said:
I don't believe I did.

Believe whatever you like my friend.

seanwhite1961 · Dec 1, 2013

Lloris - 5

Walker - 7

Chiriches - 6

Dawson - 5

Vertonghen - 6

Sandro - 8

Dembele - 6

Paulinho - 6

Chadli - 5

Lennon - 7

Soldado - 5

Townsend - 5
Defoe - 6
Siggy - net

walton · Dec 1, 2013

A little more sense in here than during the match thread, but with time to reflect, I guess that's expected.

Let' put this Lloris penalty 'debate' to bed...it was definitely a pen, regardless of whether a leg was left trailing. Start a debate about the dying art of honesty on the game if you've a problem. As for whether Lloris is to blame, well he made the decision to come out and dive at Wellbeck's feet. Turned out to be a bad decision and he's made a few of them of recent.

Walker again was beyond naïve in his defending. So often he relies on his pace to get him out of trouble because of his dire positional sense.

A small note about Soldado - he was shown genuinely ecstatic at both Spurs goals, which may not mean that much, but is nice to see.

FINALLY...it's going to break my heart seeing Sandro play for another team next season...

JimmyG2 · Dec 1, 2013

Well I enjoyed it in the way I always enjoy Spurs
when you are desperate for a win and you are twice pegged back.
They didn't create much, we soft-gifted them a couple.
Valencia and Rooney were dangerous, the rest meh.
But it was better, quicker, livelier and more inventive.
None of the attackers looked like scoring though there were more signs of life.
It was better tactically and it doesn't look to me that AVB has lost the dressing room.
Walker and Sandro stood out.

Hoddle&Waddle · Dec 1, 2013

Sandro MOTM, Vlad was a very close second.

Also would like to say I thought Soldado was much improved. He didnt score, but played some lovely 1 touch passes/flicks, won a lot of fouls for us. Not saying he set the world alight but it was promising.

Wellspurs · Dec 1, 2013

walton said:
A little more sense in here than during the match thread, but with time to reflect, I guess that's expected.

Let' put this Lloris penalty 'debate' to bed...it was definitely a pen, regardless of whether a leg was left trailing. Start a debate about the dying art of honesty on the game if you've a problem. As for whether Lloris is to blame, well he made the decision to come out and dive at Wellbeck's feet. Turned out to be a bad decision and he's made a few of them of recent.

Walker again was beyond naïve in his defending. So often he relies on his pace to get him out of trouble because of his dire positional sense.

A small note about Soldado - he was shown genuinely ecstatic at both Spurs goals, which may not mean that much, but is nice to see.

FINALLY...it's going to break my heart seeing Sandro play for another team next season...

What for Brazil in the World Cup?

Bus-Conductor · Dec 1, 2013

Sometimes these things write themselves. There is a clear narrative, not everyone agrees with my interpretation of that narrative often, but for me there often is a defined one.

That game today was much more difficult to assess and weigh up. A real curates egg IMO. For me it raised as many questions as it did answers. It was a real mixed bag collectively and individually. Some good things, some bad things and plenty in between.

When I first got in the ground and saw who was out there, I thought, great we're going 433. Next I noticed Soldado was playing. Relief. Then I noticed Dawson and Lennon and a but plug was placed firmly in my optimism valve.

I was looking forward to seeing Dembele carry the ball forward at Utd's defence, alternating maybe with Paulinho bombing in with purpose, while Sandro hunted and gathered. Turns out Paulinho was shunted up into the 10 role, which meant Dembele ended up as an anchor. Dembele worked hard but I don't think we got the best out of him again and it was his dwelling on the ball that led to their first goal.

I know Kaboul looked less than foot perfect last week but Dawson's been largely atrocious this season and last week was a real nadir. I can only assume that this is a dressing room thing. That AVB thinks he has taken a lesson from Chelsea and is trying to keep the most popular player and skipper and ergo his dressing room on-side. This was one of the things I feared when Dawson refused to be shifted last season. I personally think it's a fucking major mistake and he is major negative influence on our development as a footballing team. He is slow, he is ponderous, he can't play high up the pitch, he can't press without selling himself down the river, he's not a good reader of the game and he's a shit leader. he put in a couple of stoic blocks today, but I think is one of the reasons we had to play deeper (AVB had the same problem with Terry at Chelsea) and was horribly skanked a couple of times - worst by Welbeck that should have led to a goal.

His was typical of other performances, some really good things and some really bad from individuals (none more so than my beloved Walker) and also collectively. There was a great spell in the first half when we were right up em', pressing well and rattling the fuck out of a very ordinary midfield and less than brilliant back 4.

I actually think this was the best period of the game, when we were having good pressure and possession and matching their work rate. It was this pressure that led to our free kick and first goal and this pressure that created the best chance of the game for Soldado.

I can just imagine that some will be eulogising over the second half rumble. For me, we stopped matching their ManU's incessant work rate (Moyes is every bit as good in this department - i.e. getting a team working off the ball) - ManU still are the benchmark English team for off the ball pressing. We dropped off the pace somewhat and resorted largely to a passive game.

The second half I'm sure will have had the Redknapp Lottery Retro Fan Boy Society all a glow, but for me it just got too open, and ManU were the ones driving the game, looking more likely. We were hanging in there, but pressing got weak, ManU players were being given way too much time on the ball and it was only the fact that this is the most hum drum bunch they've had for years that didn't see us pay for our loose knickers. And with the exception of Sandro's miracle strike we didn't conjure up anything of real quality second half, despite being in situations to break with purpose several times.

There were some positives. I think the spirit was good. Especially given recent events. No-one could claim AVB has lost the dressing room. We clearly tried to zip the ball about a bit livelier in the first half.

I think Lennon was picked because AVB is striving to find the best balance of inverted and wide threat. Lennon was typically "Lennon lively" for 10 minutes of the first half, but soon disappeared. I wasn't that bothered that he swapped him for Townsend. Chadli wasn't exactly setting the world ablaze but I had more blind faith in him doing something of substance than I had in Lennon at that point. Lennon 8 passes from 13. Chadli 26/33. Stats can lie, but I reckon therein lie the rational of Lennon getting the hook not Chadli.

The crowd deserve credit, getting behind AVB and the team, definitely helped the atmosphere and team I reckon.

I do not understand the hard and fast adherence to 4231, and I really don't think Paulinho was any better there than Holtby would have been. Why not play a 433 and get Paulinho and Dembele alternately attacking from unmarked positions, allowing variation ? If you are going to play a 4231 then Dembele is the least effective in the 2 of those three, why not play Capoue, who moves the ball much quicker - it was Dembele getting caught dwelling (again) that led to Walker's brain/composure/technique hiatus for the first goal.

Where the fuck was Lamela ? Why is Defoe back ahead of Adebayor ? And why could Utd always be able to take a throw in to one of their men but we never could ?

Individual utterances

Lloris - I have only had the "at game" view of the pen and thought it wasn't, need to watch it later on MOTD.

Walker - Where does one begin. This game could be bottled and sold as "Essence of Walker". Gets put through behind the defence and mis-controls the ball pissing away a great position. Whacks a free kick under a jumping wall sweetly to score. Has one of those uniquely Walkerfucks to hand back the goal he scored to Utd. Later he goes charging up field into a tackle that if he doesn't win leaves us very exposed, doesn't win. They end up with a pen. Plays a shit ball for Defoe, then berates Defoe for not "being" where the pass went. There was other weird shit, like the moment he goes to tackle Rooney, catches another player in the corner of his eye and completely leaves Rooney on the ball and runs away in the direction of the other player. Just bizarre. In between he ran around with much gusto, of which he can be suitably proud.

Dawson - same shit different game. brave and stupid.

Chiriches - one poor decision very nearly punished but was otherwise pretty good. One outstanding tackle on Rooney.

Vertonghen - OK.

Sandro - Good game, ran out of a bit of steam second half, wonderful goal.

Dembele - Worked hard but was mostly pretty utilitarian.

Paulinho - Added to the advanced presence and did play a great ball (the best of the game) to Soldado but after that there was a sparsity tangible contribution.

Lennon - A good few minutes, followed by nothing.

Chadli - More involvement than Lennon, defensively helps his FB reasonably well, but creatively was a bit meh.

Soldado - This was the moment. Our tails were up, already winning, a slick move sees our chance famished 26m striker played in to score the goal that ignites his and our season. Oh dear. Maybe next week.

Subs - meh.

THFCSPURS19 · Dec 1, 2013

Bus-Conductor said:
Sometimes these things write themselves. There is a clear narrative, not everyone agrees with my interpretation of that narrative often, but for me there often is a defined one.

That game today was much more difficult to assess and weigh up. A real curates egg IMO. For me it raised as many questions as it did answers. It was a real mixed bag collectively and individually. Some good things, some bad things and plenty in between.

When I first got in the ground and saw who was out there, I thought, great we're going 433. Next I noticed Soldado was playing. Relief. Then I noticed Dawson and Lennon and a but plug was placed firmly in my optimism valve.

I was looking forward to seeing Dembele carry the ball forward at Utd's defence, alternating maybe with Paulinho bombing in with purpose, while Sandro hunted and gathered. Turns out Paulinho was shunted up into the 10 role, which meant Dembele ended up as an anchor. Dembele worked hard but I don't think we got the best out of him again and it was his dwelling on the ball that led to their first goal.

I know Kaboul looked less than foot perfect last week but Dawson's been largely atrocious this season and last week was a real nadir. I can only assume that this is a dressing room thing. That AVB thinks he has taken a lesson from Chelsea and is trying to keep the most popular player and skipper and ergo his dressing room on-side. This was one of the things I feared when Dawson refused to be shifted last season. I personally think it's a fucking major mistake and he is major negative influence on our development as a footballing team. He is slow, he is ponderous, he can't play high up the pitch, he can't press without selling himself down the river, he's not a good reader of the game and he's a shit leader. he put in a couple of stoic blocks today, but I think is one of the reasons we had to play deeper (AVB had the same problem with Terry at Chelsea) and was horribly skanked a couple of times - worst by Welbeck that should have led to a goal.

His was typical of other performances, some really good things and some really bad from individuals (none more so than my beloved Walker) and also collectively. There was a great spell in the first half when we were right up em', pressing well and rattling the fuck out of a very ordinary midfield and less than brilliant back 4.

I actually think this was the best period of the game, when we were having good pressure and possession and matching their work rate. It was this pressure that led to our free kick and first goal and this pressure that created the best chance of the game for Soldado.

I can just imagine that some will be eulogising over the second half rumble. For me, we stopped matching their ManU's incessant work rate (Moyes is every bit as good in this department - i.e. getting a team working off the ball) - ManU still are the benchmark English team for off the ball pressing. We dropped off the pace somewhat and resorted largely to a passive game.

The second half I'm sure will have had the Redknapp Lottery Retro Fan Boy Society all a glow, but for me it just got too open, and ManU were the ones driving the game, looking more likely. We were hanging in there, but pressing got weak, ManU players were being given way too much time on the ball and it was only the fact that this is the most hum drum bunch they've had for years that didn't see us pay for our loose knickers. And with the exception of Sandro's miracle strike we didn't conjure up anything of real quality second half, despite being in situations to break with purpose several times.

There were some positives. I think the spirit was good. Especially given recent events. No-one could claim AVB has lost the dressing room. We clearly tried to zip the ball about a bit livelier in the first half.

I think Lennon was picked because AVB is striving to find the best balance of inverted and wide threat. Lennon was typically "Lennon lively" for 10 minutes of the first half, but soon disappeared. I wasn't that bothered that he swapped him for Townsend. Chadli wasn't exactly setting the world ablaze but I had more blind faith in him doing something of substance than I had in Lennon at that point. Lennon 8 passes from 13. Chadli 26/33. Stats can lie, but I reckon therein lie the rational of Lennon getting the hook not Chadli.

The crowd deserve credit, getting behind AVB and the team, definitely helped the atmosphere and team I reckon.

I do not understand the hard and fast adherence to 4231, and I really don't think Paulinho was any better there than Holtby would have been. Why not play a 433 and get Paulinho and Dembele alternately attacking from unmarked positions, allowing variation ? If you are going to play a 4231 then Dembele is the least effective in the 2 of those three, why not play Capoue, who moves the ball much quicker - it was Dembele getting caught dwelling (again) that led to Walker's brain/composure/technique hiatus for the first goal.

Where the fuck was Lamela ? Why is Defoe back ahead of Adebayor ? And why could Utd always be able to take a throw in to one of their men but we never could ?

Individual utterances

Lloris - I have only had the "at game" view of the pen and thought it wasn't, need to watch it later on MOTD.

Walker - Where does one begin. This game could be bottled and sold as "Essence of Walker". Gets put through behind the defence and mis-controls the ball pissing away a great position. Whacks a free kick under a jumping wall sweetly to score. Has one of those uniquely Walkerfucks to hand back the goal he scored to Utd. Later he goes charging up field into a tackle that if he doesn't win leaves us very exposed, doesn't win. They end up with a pen. Plays a shit ball for Defoe, then berates Defoe for not "being" where the pass went. There was other weird shit, like the moment he goes to tackle Rooney, catches another player in the corner of his eye and completely leaves Rooney on the ball and runs away in the direction of the other player. Just bizarre. In between he ran around with much gusto, of which he can be suitably proud.

Dawson - same shit different game. brave and stupid.

Chiriches - one poor decision very nearly punished but was otherwise pretty good. One outstanding tackle on Rooney.

Vertonghen - OK.

Sandro - Good game, ran out of a bit of steam second half, wonderful goal.

Dembele - Worked hard but was mostly pretty utilitarian.

Paulinho - Added to the advanced presence and did play a great ball (the best of the game) to Soldado but after that there was a sparsity tangible contribution.

Lennon - A good few minutes, followed by nothing.

Chadli - More involvement than Lennon, defensively helps his FB reasonably well, but creatively was a bit meh.

Soldado - This was the moment. Our tails were up, already winning, a slick move sees our chance famished 26m striker played in to score the goal that ignites his and our season. Oh dear. Maybe next week.

Subs - meh.

BC, there is nothing better than reading your post-match analysis. But mate, you are way too harsh on Walker (as always) and Lennon. Thought they were both great today and did not deserve the criticism you have given them.

I guess everybody has their own opinion...

ohtottenham! · Dec 1, 2013

Bus-Conductor said:
Sometimes these things write themselves.

Now, that's where you should have stopped! Edit...sorry BC, unfair not to give you more than that in response. But, feel you really are harsh in your criticism of players you don't seem to like, and look to confirm your negative opinion of them when you watch them...Lennon being a glaring example.

The Apprentice · Dec 1, 2013

Much better performance but can't help but feel we missed a real chance against the worst United team I've ever seen at the Lane.

I still believe in Soldado but that attempt was horrific considering the time of the game it came. Would have been good night.

Where the fuck were Ade and Lamela?

mpickard2087 · Dec 1, 2013

Bus-Conductor said:
I know Kaboul looked less than foot perfect last week but Dawson's been largely atrocious this season and last week was a real nadir. I can only assume that this is a dressing room thing. That AVB thinks he has taken a lesson from Chelsea and is trying to keep the most popular player and skipper and ergo his dressing room on-side. This was one of the things I feared when Dawson refused to be shifted last season. I personally think it's a fucking major mistake and he is major negative influence on our development as a footballing team. He is slow, he is ponderous, he can't play high up the pitch, he can't press without selling himself down the river, he's not a good reader of the game and he's a shit leader. he put in a couple of stoic blocks today, but I think is one of the reasons we had to play deeper (AVB had the same problem with Terry at Chelsea) and was horribly skanked a couple of times - worst by Welbeck that should have led to a goal.

I think he would like to be able to pair Chiriches and Vertonghen, however until Rose reappears from wherever he has disappeared to, its a choice between Dawson and Kaboul. Now, I am no fan of Dawson really, but problems are that:

- Kaboul looks rusty, as shaky as Dawson and as liable to make a mistake.
- Kaboul looks to have no pace since he returned, I don't think we would be able to push much higher up the pitch in all truth.
- Lastly, and most importantly, Kaboul is liable to break at any moment. Dawson is the more durable.

I don't want to see Dawson out there, but right now until we conjure up a left back I don't think we have much choice.

Legend10 · Dec 1, 2013

Bus-Conductor said:
Sometimes these things write themselves. There is a clear narrative, not everyone agrees with my interpretation of that narrative often, but for me there often is a defined one.

That game today was much more difficult to assess and weigh up. A real curates egg IMO. For me it raised as many questions as it did answers. It was a real mixed bag collectively and individually. Some good things, some bad things and plenty in between.

When I first got in the ground and saw who was out there, I thought, great we're going 433. Next I noticed Soldado was playing. Relief. Then I noticed Dawson and Lennon and a but plug was placed firmly in my optimism valve.

I was looking forward to seeing Dembele carry the ball forward at Utd's defence, alternating maybe with Paulinho bombing in with purpose, while Sandro hunted and gathered. Turns out Paulinho was shunted up into the 10 role, which meant Dembele ended up as an anchor. Dembele worked hard but I don't think we got the best out of him again and it was his dwelling on the ball that led to their first goal.

I know Kaboul looked less than foot perfect last week but Dawson's been largely atrocious this season and last week was a real nadir. I can only assume that this is a dressing room thing. That AVB thinks he has taken a lesson from Chelsea and is trying to keep the most popular player and skipper and ergo his dressing room on-side. This was one of the things I feared when Dawson refused to be shifted last season. I personally think it's a fucking major mistake and he is major negative influence on our development as a footballing team. He is slow, he is ponderous, he can't play high up the pitch, he can't press without selling himself down the river, he's not a good reader of the game and he's a shit leader. he put in a couple of stoic blocks today, but I think is one of the reasons we had to play deeper (AVB had the same problem with Terry at Chelsea) and was horribly skanked a couple of times - worst by Welbeck that should have led to a goal.

His was typical of other performances, some really good things and some really bad from individuals (none more so than my beloved Walker) and also collectively. There was a great spell in the first half when we were right up em', pressing well and rattling the fuck out of a very ordinary midfield and less than brilliant back 4.

I actually think this was the best period of the game, when we were having good pressure and possession and matching their work rate. It was this pressure that led to our free kick and first goal and this pressure that created the best chance of the game for Soldado.

I can just imagine that some will be eulogising over the second half rumble. For me, we stopped matching their ManU's incessant work rate (Moyes is every bit as good in this department - i.e. getting a team working off the ball) - ManU still are the benchmark English team for off the ball pressing. We dropped off the pace somewhat and resorted largely to a passive game.

The second half I'm sure will have had the Redknapp Lottery Retro Fan Boy Society all a glow, but for me it just got too open, and ManU were the ones driving the game, looking more likely. We were hanging in there, but pressing got weak, ManU players were being given way too much time on the ball and it was only the fact that this is the most hum drum bunch they've had for years that didn't see us pay for our loose knickers. And with the exception of Sandro's miracle strike we didn't conjure up anything of real quality second half, despite being in situations to break with purpose several times.

There were some positives. I think the spirit was good. Especially given recent events. No-one could claim AVB has lost the dressing room. We clearly tried to zip the ball about a bit livelier in the first half.

I think Lennon was picked because AVB is striving to find the best balance of inverted and wide threat. Lennon was typically "Lennon lively" for 10 minutes of the first half, but soon disappeared. I wasn't that bothered that he swapped him for Townsend. Chadli wasn't exactly setting the world ablaze but I had more blind faith in him doing something of substance than I had in Lennon at that point. Lennon 8 passes from 13. Chadli 26/33. Stats can lie, but I reckon therein lie the rational of Lennon getting the hook not Chadli.

The crowd deserve credit, getting behind AVB and the team, definitely helped the atmosphere and team I reckon.

I do not understand the hard and fast adherence to 4231, and I really don't think Paulinho was any better there than Holtby would have been. Why not play a 433 and get Paulinho and Dembele alternately attacking from unmarked positions, allowing variation ? If you are going to play a 4231 then Dembele is the least effective in the 2 of those three, why not play Capoue, who moves the ball much quicker - it was Dembele getting caught dwelling (again) that led to Walker's brain/composure/technique hiatus for the first goal.

Where the fuck was Lamela ? Why is Defoe back ahead of Adebayor ? And why could Utd always be able to take a throw in to one of their men but we never could ?

Individual utterances

Lloris - I have only had the "at game" view of the pen and thought it wasn't, need to watch it later on MOTD.

Walker - Where does one begin. This game could be bottled and sold as "Essence of Walker". Gets put through behind the defence and mis-controls the ball pissing away a great position. Whacks a free kick under a jumping wall sweetly to score. Has one of those uniquely Walkerfucks to hand back the goal he scored to Utd. Later he goes charging up field into a tackle that if he doesn't win leaves us very exposed, doesn't win. They end up with a pen. Plays a shit ball for Defoe, then berates Defoe for not "being" where the pass went. There was other weird shit, like the moment he goes to tackle Rooney, catches another player in the corner of his eye and completely leaves Rooney on the ball and runs away in the direction of the other player. Just bizarre. In between he ran around with much gusto, of which he can be suitably proud.

Dawson - same shit different game. brave and stupid.

Chiriches - one poor decision very nearly punished but was otherwise pretty good. One outstanding tackle on Rooney.

Vertonghen - OK.

Sandro - Good game, ran out of a bit of steam second half, wonderful goal.

Dembele - Worked hard but was mostly pretty utilitarian.

Paulinho - Added to the advanced presence and did play a great ball (the best of the game) to Soldado but after that there was a sparsity tangible contribution.

Lennon - A good few minutes, followed by nothing.

Chadli - More involvement than Lennon, defensively helps his FB reasonably well, but creatively was a bit meh.

Soldado - This was the moment. Our tails were up, already winning, a slick move sees our chance famished 26m striker played in to score the goal that ignites his and our season. Oh dear. Maybe next week.

Subs - meh.

The sad thing is you wrote all that and you don't even know what formation we played, to think we played 4231 just shows despite writing a thousand words you're not really aware what's going on sometimes BC. That was nothing like 4231 and Dembele didn't anchor the midfield at all, he and Sandro played as a pair and if anything Dembele was usually the slightly more advanced of the 2.

Paulinho played pretty much right up alongside Soldado for the most part, call it whichever way you want 4411 or 442 but today the 4231 we have been playing gave way to a system which allowed us to play with more pace and purpose and suited this group of players so much better.

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