Ratings Vs Man Utd

Main Man said:

Lloris - 7 - outstanding save at the beginning and did well throughout the game, but his rush of the blood could have cost us another 2-1 lead against United.

Walker - 8 - head and shoulders our Man of the Match, I can't believe more people haven't give him credit for a performance where he didn't make a single defensive error. An uncharacteristically intelligent performance where he sacrificed his attacking play because he knew Lennon would pull Evra's pants down, and just focused on keeping the over=rated Januzaj quiet. He kept him so quiet he had to switch wings and then Kagawa felll victim to his masterclass.

Dawson - 8 - really shaky opening ten minutes, but from then on was collosus at the back. A great return to form hopefully!

Chiriches - 6 - it scares me that he is still not switched on with regards balls in behind him. United looked they were targetting him first ten minutes and they were in on a couple of occasions but then they just stopped doing it. They did it for their second goal though, and he has to take all the blame for it. There is no way somebody at fault for the opponents goal is receiving MOTM from me. No way.

Rose - 5 - You could just tell he wasn't fit, and because he has done relatively well all season I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. The least said about his performance tonight, the better.

Lennon - 8 - Him and Walker provide a formiddable partnership down the right. Faultless performance from him really, apart from when he should have scored. But his miss overshadowed some fantastic attacking movement from him, let's not forget that. Poor Evra, pants pulled won yet again. Well done, Azza.

Capouet - 7 - In possession I was actually a bit disappointing with his display, and this is something I am beginning to regularly note about him which is a concern. But what he did so well whilst he was on is occupy that pocket that Rooney likes to drop in to. Before his absence, Rooney was non-existent.

Dembele - 7 - a very different type of performance to what we are used to seeing from Moussa. He will be a tired boy tonight!

Eriksen - 7 - I had been quite critical of him of late, but he played with real intelligence just as he did on Sunday. His goal was particularly refreshing for me, because a midfielder finally took a gamble and it paid off. I keep forgetting this guy is only 21 too! I am definitely excited about what he can bring to the team for the remainder of the season.

Soldado - 8 - We are beginning to see the real Roberto. Fantastic couple of passes tonight which made real notable chances. If it was Berbatov or Suarez who made those passes, he would now have a clip on Spankwire. He must start taking these chances though, but I still think he is going to get 25+ goals this season.

Adebayor - 8 - Almost everything good came through him. He is a very talented striker who should play every minute of every game, but I have always thought that. Hopefully he is OK for Saturday, even if it is only just for another similar 60-minute stint.

Subs - 7 - I questioned every sub really, but they all came on and offered energy - even if little else. But that was all that was required in fairness.

Sherwood - 9 - I have questioned his every team selection and substitution since he took over, but I cant fault him tonight. Lamela would have been a better option than Chadli though in my opinion.

Howard Webb - 8 - I am not Howard's biggest fan, especially as he always contrives to fuck us over at every opportunity. He could have done the same tonight, as Manchester United are a cheating bunch of twats - but he stood firm thank god.

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You really are so biased its unreal.
Vulcan10 you may want to read this again
But here it is for you.
Main man wrote for Chiri
Chiriches - 6 - it scares me that he is still not switched on with regards balls in behind him. United looked they were targetting him first ten minutes and they were in on a couple of occasions but then they just stopped doing it. They did it for their second goal though, and he has to take all the blame for it. There is no way somebody at fault for the opponents goal is receiving MOTM from me. No way.
Dawson was marking Welbeck and they scored once and once only.
You forgot to mention Vlads pass for OUR SECOND GOAL, it took there whole midfield out.

XSuicideBunnyX said:

I watched the game, and I thought that Rose kept Valencia extremely quiet during the first half. However, during the second half, he got done silly over and over by Januzaj. This was a performance like one of his pre-season ones which isn't good enough.

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I'd suggest you watch the first half again in that case.

XSuicideBunnyX said:

Well, if Rose puts Valencia/Januzaj under pressure, then chances are they won't be able to pick someone out like they could if Rose wasn't there at all. I reckon that without a fullback, a winger will find his man half of the time. With the full back defending him, then Valencia's putting in 1 out of 13. You can't tell me that's just due to Valencia being a horrid crosser/Welbeck being a bad target/Dawson and Chiri bossing the air. It's because Rose has enough speed to keep up with Valencia, who's game mostly revolves around sprinting past a slow full-back and putting in a free cross.

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From Redcafe;

Davo99 said:

From Redcafe;

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Yeah I saw that, and I can see at least 4 blocked crosses there. And all but two of the crosses that went in actually looked decent on the pic, so I guess Rose may not have done as well as I thought. But if Valencia had 0 in 12 from his crosses, I'd still say that the full-back did pretty well. If the opposition forwards are connecting with the crosses, then they aren't going to score from them. (you have to consider the pressure the centre backs are under, and they were defo the stars of the show tonight)

That was brilliant, what a wonderful performance, tactical genius. We've got our Tottenham back, playing the Tottenham way, the way the fans want to see them play.

If you believe that, you probably believe in Santa and the fucking tooth fairy. And you are probably marking everyone 8's, 9's and 10's.

The unpalatable truth is that that was a pretty dire performance from start to finish. We controlled none of it, not even defensively, we didn't even press properly. We just sat deep and surrendered the ball. They were allowed time and acres of space all over the pitch and I can't remember a game, any game, any time, when so many crosses were allowed into a penalty box without the slightest pressure on the ball. We had four shots on target, all created on the break and got extremely lucky that two found the net and that this Utd are a shadow of the old Utd.

I don't mind dropping the high line but some sort of line would be good. And we have reverted to not pressing the ball at all. Lennon wasted a brilliant chance and got very lucky his cross deflected and and slowed so Eriksen could dart in and score. I don't think he roasted Evra once, and saw the ball less than everyone else in our side - one of the many reasons we had so little of the game.

Eriksen saw the most ball of anyone, set up a goal and scored a real poachers goal. A good contribution but gave Rose so little help.

I think the Capoue sub was mental. By all means bring Bentaleb on but take off an attacker and give us some semblance of competition in the middle of the pitch.

Sherwoods tactics are, so far, scarily identical to Redknapp's, and even his pre match is starting to sound the same "it's just about the players going out there and enjoying themselves". No it fucking isn't.

I love see in players express themselves, but I also want to see them work hard off the ball, press properly, and defend and attack coherently too.

Great win. Like last year's was a great win. Neither were great performances.

Individual stuff

Lloris - Some poor decisions, like punching outside and flying out to Young, but a couple of good saves. Very mixed bag.

Walker - Defensively good today. Hilarious flap/clap at ball sailing over his head. He does know he's not Uri Geller right ?

Dawson - Dawson

Chiriches - A very decent performance (After recent games quite unexpected) under immense pressure. Beautiful ball out of defence for the second goal, took ManU out of the game.

Rose - Wasn't great, and allowed shitloads of ball into our box, but Eriksen gave him very little help and he was exposed quite a lot.

Lennon - Some may be bamboozled by two or three eye catching moments (followed on most cases by the usual wastage) did well to get into position for the second goal but very lucky his cross bounces off their guy. Must be more involved in games.

Capoue - Tough place to make your first start in CM for a while and started very shakily, but gradually grew into the game. Still not outstanding, but did a pretty good job on Rooney and shouldn't have gone off IMO.

Dembele - OK.

Eriksen - Real sharp bit of poaching for his goal and a decent ball for Adebayor. Also saw more ball than anyone else in our side. Needed to help Rose much more.

Adebayor - Looked like his head was pickled first 20 minutes, then scored then was everywhere putting in a good shift.

Soldado - Worked hard, ball of the game for Lennon.


I really hope these first few games aren't indicative of what's ahead. Good one week, shit the next, often good and shit all in the same 90. I know "they" will enjoy it. It just doesn't do it for me.

Can't say I agree with much of that BC. The bottom line is we're created far better chances than they did. Had we taken them we could of embarrassed them. Sherwood was right to set up to get at their back line.

United may have had, like Wenger would say, 'sterile domination'....but they really did fuck all with it until the last twenty minutes when we sat deeper - losing Adebayor was integral to that. Amazing how we can all see it so differently.

Agree on the Capoue sub mind you but how an earth can you not enjoy the fact that we created much better chances than they did? Had we scored four goals tonight would you still be unsatisfied?

Can't say I agree with much of that BC. The bottom line is we created far better chances than they did. Had we taken them we could of embarrassed them. Sherwood was right to set up to get at their back line.

United may have had, like Wenger would say, 'sterile domination'....but they really did fuck all with it until the last twenty minutes when we sat deeper - losing Adebayor was integral to that. Amazing how we can all see it so differently.

Agree on the Capoue sub mind you but how an earth can you not enjoy the fact that we created much better chances than they did? Had we scored four goals tonight would you still be unsatisfied?

We're better off with a Redknapp/Sherwood philosophy than we are a Ramos/AVB one IMO, @Bus-Conductor. I admire the clarity of your analyses and the structured nature of your arguments, but I fundamentally disagree with you on your notion of "lottery football" (a needlessly pejorative phrase, btw - Harry didn't win 1 in every 14 million matches) vs your preferred "chess match" philosophy. I guess that makes me one of "them": early signs of Sherwood's style do do it for me.

[For what it's worth, I agree with your love of pressing football - I wish we did that more - but where I disagree with you is that, when performances rather than results are being judged, I place more store in the amount of clear-cut goalscoring chances a side creates than I do in the possession percentages.]

I feel far happier with what we're seeing under Sherwood. Early days yes, but a breath of fresh air compared to the negative approach we've been subjected to for months on end. That's not to say it wasn't effective at times, it was - but it was fucking dull and that just doesn't do it for me either I'm afraid.

Bus-Conductor said:

That was brilliant, what a wonderful performance, tactical genius. We've got our Tottenham back, playing the Tottenham way, the way the fans want to see them play.

If you believe that, you probably believe in Santa and the fucking tooth fairy. And you are probably marking everyone 8's, 9's and 10's.

The unpalatable truth is that that was a pretty dire performance from start to finish. We controlled none of it, not even defensively, we didn't even press properly. We just sat deep and surrendered the ball. They were allowed time and acres of space all over the pitch and I can't remember a game, any game, any time, when so many crosses were allowed into a penalty box without the slightest pressure on the ball. We had four shots on target, all created on the break and got extremely lucky that two found the net and that this Utd are a shadow of the old Utd.

I don't mind dropping the high line but some sort of line would be good. And we have reverted to not pressing the ball at all. Lennon wasted a brilliant chance and got very lucky his cross deflected and and slowed so Eriksen could dart in and score. I don't think he roasted Evra once, and saw the ball less than everyone else in our side - one of the many reasons we had so little of the game.

Eriksen saw the most ball of anyone, set up a goal and scored a real poachers goal. A good contribution but gave Rose so little help.

I think the Capoue sub was mental. By all means bring Bentaleb on but take off an attacker and give us some semblance of competition in the middle of the pitch.

Sherwoods tactics are, so far, scarily identical to Redknapp's, and even his pre match is starting to sound the same "it's just about the players going out there and enjoying themselves". No it fucking isn't.

I love see in players express themselves, but I also want to see them work hard off the ball, press properly, and defend and attack coherently too.

Great win. Like last year's was a great win. Neither were great performances.

Individual stuff

Lloris - Some poor decisions, like punching outside and flying out to Young, but a couple of good saves. Very mixed bag.

Walker - Defensively good today. Hilarious flap/clap at ball sailing over his head. He does know he's not Uri Geller right ?

Dawson - Dawson

Chiriches - A very decent performance (After recent games quite unexpected) under immense pressure. Beautiful ball out of defence for the second goal, took ManU out of the game.

Rose - Wasn't great, and allowed shitloads of ball into our box, but Eriksen gave him very little help and he was exposed quite a lot.

Lennon - Some may be bamboozled by two or three eye catching moments (followed on most cases by the usual wastage) did well to get into position for the second goal but very lucky his cross bounces off their guy. Must be more involved in games.

Capoue - Tough place to make your first start in CM for a while and started very shakily, but gradually grew into the game. Still not outstanding, but did a pretty good job on Rooney and shouldn't have gone off IMO.

Dembele - OK.

Eriksen - Real sharp bit of poaching for his goal and a decent ball for Adebayor. Also saw more ball than anyone else in our side. Needed to help Rose much more.

Adebayor - Looked like his head was pickled first 20 minutes, then scored then was everywhere putting in a good shift.

Soldado - Worked hard, ball of the game for Lennon.


I really hope these first few games aren't indicative of what's ahead. Good one week, shit the next, often good and shit all in the same 90. I know "they" will enjoy it. It just doesn't do it for me.

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Oh dear!

Bus-Conductor said:

That was brilliant, what a wonderful performance, tactical genius. We've got our Tottenham back, playing the Tottenham way, the way the fans want to see them play.

If you believe that, you probably believe in Santa and the fucking tooth fairy. And you are probably marking everyone 8's, 9's and 10's.

The unpalatable truth is that that was a pretty dire performance from start to finish. We controlled none of it, not even defensively, we didn't even press properly. We just sat deep and surrendered the ball. They were allowed time and acres of space all over the pitch and I can't remember a game, any game, any time, when so many crosses were allowed into a penalty box without the slightest pressure on the ball. We had four shots on target, all created on the break and got extremely lucky that two found the net and that this Utd are a shadow of the old Utd.

I don't mind dropping the high line but some sort of line would be good. And we have reverted to not pressing the ball at all. Lennon wasted a brilliant chance and got very lucky his cross deflected and and slowed so Eriksen could dart in and score. I don't think he roasted Evra once, and saw the ball less than everyone else in our side - one of the many reasons we had so little of the game.

Eriksen saw the most ball of anyone, set up a goal and scored a real poachers goal. A good contribution but gave Rose so little help.

I think the Capoue sub was mental. By all means bring Bentaleb on but take off an attacker and give us some semblance of competition in the middle of the pitch.

Sherwoods tactics are, so far, scarily identical to Redknapp's, and even his pre match is starting to sound the same "it's just about the players going out there and enjoying themselves". No it fucking isn't.

I love see in players express themselves, but I also want to see them work hard off the ball, press properly, and defend and attack coherently too.

Great win. Like last year's was a great win. Neither were great performances.

Individual stuff

Lloris - Some poor decisions, like punching outside and flying out to Young, but a couple of good saves. Very mixed bag.

Walker - Defensively good today. Hilarious flap/clap at ball sailing over his head. He does know he's not Uri Geller right ?

Dawson - Dawson

Chiriches - A very decent performance (After recent games quite unexpected) under immense pressure. Beautiful ball out of defence for the second goal, took ManU out of the game.

Rose - Wasn't great, and allowed shitloads of ball into our box, but Eriksen gave him very little help and he was exposed quite a lot.

Lennon - Some may be bamboozled by two or three eye catching moments (followed on most cases by the usual wastage) did well to get into position for the second goal but very lucky his cross bounces off their guy. Must be more involved in games.

Capoue - Tough place to make your first start in CM for a while and started very shakily, but gradually grew into the game. Still not outstanding, but did a pretty good job on Rooney and shouldn't have gone off IMO.

Dembele - OK.

Eriksen - Real sharp bit of poaching for his goal and a decent ball for Adebayor. Also saw more ball than anyone else in our side. Needed to help Rose much more.

Adebayor - Looked like his head was pickled first 20 minutes, then scored then was everywhere putting in a good shift.

Soldado - Worked hard, ball of the game for Lennon.


I really hope these first few games aren't indicative of what's ahead. Good one week, shit the next, often good and shit all in the same 90. I know "they" will enjoy it. It just doesn't do it for me.

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Having read all of that, I think I believe in Santa and the fucking tooth fairy

BC is absolutely right. We had no control of the ball out there. All our chances were on counter attacking. But we should have been up 3-0 at least after the first half. Soldado and Lennon should have each put their chances away.

Lennon and dawso

Mr Pink said:

Can't say I agree with much of that BC. The bottom line is we created far better chances than they did. Had we taken them we could of embarrassed them. Sherwood was right to set up to get at their back line.

United may have had, like Wenger would say, 'sterile domination'....but they really did fuck all with it until the last twenty minutes when we sat deeper - losing Adebayor was integral to that. Amazing how we can all see it so differently.

Agree on the Capoue sub mind you but how an earth can you not enjoy the fact that we created much better chances than they did? Had we scored four goals tonight would you still be unsatisfied?

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Lennon and Dawson were playing is all you need to know about BC's "analysis". Lennon and Dawson were both excellent today in what was a very good result.
I know it's a forum but im just sick and tired of his repetitive nonsense. The worst of it is that he runs away from any kind of proper debate and just sticks people on ignore.

yankspurs said:

BC is absolutely right. We had no control of the ball out there. All our chances were on counter attacking. But we should have been up 3-0 at least after the first half. Soldado and Lennon should have each put their chances away.

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I really enjoyed the way we controlled the ball away at man city and arsenal and how all they managed to do was cut us to pieces on the counter. I much prefer those types of games!

yankspurs said:

BC is absolutely right. We had no control of the ball out there. All our chances were on counter attacking. But we should have been up 3-0 at least after the first half. Soldado and Lennon should have each put their chances away.

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What matters is who looked more likely to score - that's what wins you games. And the evidence was overwhelming - we looked the far more likely and should of had the game put to bed.

Chiriches garnering a lot of praise, considering it was him who was caught out for their goal, from what i could see. Granted, he was solid back there, but from what i was watching it was a proper team effort to keep them out for the last 15 minutes. For my money, Ade, Lennon & Erik smashed it today, they looked like a real unit going forward and if it wasn't for some bad luck, Solly would be right up there too. Sublime pass for Lennon early doors, and his movement around the box was quite fantastic. Kane also looked like he was enjoying himself out there - it does encourage me that the youngsters Timsk is rolling out are blending in with the squad well, regardless of their talent. Seems to be a good feeling around the team atm.

Where's the Howard Webb option for MOTM.

He still owes us a couple but that was hefty down payment on the debt.

Lloris – 7.5 Seems fully recovered since the head injury and building on a good performance against Stoke. Saved us on a couple of occasions and came off his line with purpose. He needs to think more carefully about those 50/50 challenges however, as he could have had a penalty given for the rash challenge on Young.

Walker – 7 Once again showed drive and purpose with a non-stop performance. Defended well and instrumental in starting some of our most telling moves

Chiriches – 8.5 What a difference a game makes! He was poor against Stoke but sublime today. He showed a lot of excellent movement and anticipation and was rarely caught out of position. His passing from the back is also brilliant and had a hand in our second goal. A classy defender who is only going to get better as he gains more experience in the PL. An excellent overall performance! MOTM

Dawson – 8.5 People see him as a bit of a liability don’t they, but he was Captain Invincible today. It was a hard game that he was really up for and its games like these that you need Dawson. He got didn’t get caught in possession too much and the ‘hoof it to safety’ strategy was left back in the dressing room. Excellent work Daws!

Rose – 7 While he was a threat offensively when he had the opportunity, they were limited. He laboured at times in defence and the United wingers gave him a torrid time. He did get caught out on a few too many occasions and he looks as though he is not match fit. However, to be fair he was exposed quite a bit by Eriksen moving into central positions and targeted by United. Sherwood needs to work on this and provide him more cover.

Eriksen – 8.5 Scored a great goal, a nice assist and did so much more besides. This is the real Eriksen and he is growing in confidence. He knows he can mix it up in the PL now. He seems to work well moving into the center from left but I still think he should be played as a No. 10 in a more advanced position. Would get a higher rating but he drifted too much into the central area and left Rose exposed.

Dembele – 7 A player who would appear to be missing on the day, however, he was told to hold back and cover in MF and did that admirably in a solid performance.
Capoue – 7 A largely solid performance and did as was expected of him in providing cover. Grew into the game after a nervy start.
Lennon - 7.5 A good game. Troubled United and was an outlet for us. Still a little too hit and miss for my liking but gave us shape in his flank that was missing on the opposite side.

Adebayor – 8.5 He worked hard.He chased. He scored a real CF’s goal and he scared United whenever he was in the penalty area. A wonderful big game player and you hope he isn’t injured for a long spell. Gave us a real cutting edge which has been missing and worked well with the Soldier.

Soldado – 8 Tried to make things happen all game. Missed a sitter as he has been doing lately but he is developing a wonderful understanding with Ade and Eriksen. His hold play, passing and anticipation and running off the ball was top class.

Subs
Bentaleb – 6.5 He was impressive against Southampton and he looked composed and purposeful again in his cameo. A more subdued performance as he was thrown on to provide cover and replace tiring legs.

Chadli – 6 He struggled to impose himself today and to be fair didn’t have a lot of time to settle in.

Kane – 7 Marvellous cameo. Showed strength and character and strong running. A talented youngster who looks better than Defoe to come on in these vital tussles at the moment because of the quality of his all round game.

Sherwood – 8 Put out an attacking team and out thought Moyes. He was brave and courageous and rightly earned the points. I know we're struggling with injuries but the lads did extremely well considering we had key players out. There seems great team spirit and a cohesion to our play missing under AVB. There were some dubious decisions in sub selection but I thought the substitution with Kane was an inspired move.

Manure – 6.5 They flattered to deceive. Were second best for most of the game until the last 20 minutes when they tried to throw the kitchen sink at us. Still seeing some sickeningly poor gamesmanship with obvious dives from Welbeck and Januzaj, even though Young has been highlighted as a serial diver already. You would think this lot would know better. Moyes shrill diatribe on Lloris failed to hide the obvious faults in the Manure game. He was out thought by Sherwood and trying to turn attention to Lloris doesn’t change the result. No mention about the laughable dive by Welbeck which would earn a Gold in the Olympics competition. He desperately needs Van Persie back like a patient with congestive heart failure needs a pacemaker.

Welbeck's was never a penalty...not in a zillion years.

I'm furious with that.
Fuming.
Not good enough.

When I place wagers on correct scores of 3-1 and 4-1, I expect us to keep attacking til the bitter end.

HA!

Suddenly, with a ton of injuries, our 'too-big' squad looks about the right size.
Credit must be added for having an injury crisis yet not having to resort to a Bendtner or suchlike.

An intriguing match and a battle to pick up our usual 3 points up there.
I said beforehand, only partially in jest, that Utd were shit and I do not feel any different after the match.
What frustrated me for the first half an hour or so, was the respect we gave to them and the inability of us to play to our strengths, keep the ball and put the squeeze onto them. They have some quick players but not the guile needed to scare us, & we set up to let them play which was perplexing.

Then, as time moved on and we scored, I started to realise that it was part of a plan...

They set up for a corner & 10 Spurs men mill around the box. They attempt to move forward and our team shuffles backwards as a unit. Dembele and Capoue were so positionally sound that they played very little offensive football. Our attacks were based on pace, quick thinking and the quality that Soldado, Adebayor, Eriksen and Lennon could provide.

I often moan about Lennon, but he's in good form now, & hopefully can maintain this. Too often he reverts to anonymity, and at times he was quiet today but then you spot him 3 yards from Walker as Evra passes the ball backwards and you realise why he's there.

Contrast the opposing flank, where going forward, the intelligence of Eriksen is refreshing.
Having a player as adept as Eriksen out there feels like a luxury. He's no winger but if it is a case of getting your best players onto the pitch, then it works. Is it 4-4-2? Or is it 4-3-3 going forward? Watch Soldado, Ade & Eriksen bound forwrad for the second and it looks like 3 forwards; wasn't this what Andre was supposed to do?!
The downside? Cover for Rose who became isolated. Maybe that was the thinking behind Bentaleb, to put a natual left footer on the left side of midfield, to get closer to both Rose and Eriksen...

Our set up can be perplexing but also fluid. I'm warming to the idea that it is intentional too and results will keep me from going full on Bus Conductor... Maybe i'm more easily pleased.

Lloris 7 Some great saves, needs to realise that sometimes the line is a safe haven though.
Walker 8 Looked completely in control of his area today.. in really good form
Dawson 8 Ideal matched up against a crossing-heavy Moyes side.
Chiriches 8 Asleep for their goal but generally solid & will have learnt a heck of a lot from that about what English football can be.
Rose 6 Roasted at times but slightly isolated
Eriksen 8 Goal & assist. That's what he did week in, week out for Ajax & he's becoming one of our most important players. I like him on that flank & he's just a better player than most.
Capoue 7 Self-sacrificing shift
Dembele 7 Self sacrificing shift
Lennon 8 Think I get the defensive discipline angle after today & he scared them
Adebayor 8 Like Eriksen, purely a superior footballer than most. Well taken goal.
Soldado 7 He's nearly there, a goal will make the difference

Bentaleb 7 We were closing down by the time he was on the pitch
Chadli 6 Ditto
Kane 7 Ran like heck.

Sherwood 8 You can be good or lucky or both. I'm not sure which he is but it's harsh to bemoan how it's going.
The young players are involved, the good players are playing, the results are good.

PS: WHAT'S HAPPENED TO LAMELA?