Chelsea Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

teok · Mar 8, 2014

paulcumpstone said:
difference is fergie always had leaders on the pitch from bruce to keane who would hand out the bollocking on the pitch.

No difference. You bollock players in private, public humilation is a very specific tool used in a tiny amount of situations.

beats1 · Mar 8, 2014

tony0379 said:
Didn't Sherwood say, that our record their is so terrible, we are going to there to enjoy ourselves?

Well I fucking had a great time

*As soon as the second goal went in, I started to watch South Park

TheGreenLily · Mar 8, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
It looked a bad decision not to buy a LB last summer and the chickens have come home to roost. We got our fucking cock caught in our zipper.

Yup and I can't believe that some people thought using Verts was a solution. We really really needed a left back and maybe another CB too, seeing as Koubal has been very injury prone recently. IMO, I think we should sell Kaboul and Dawson too this season, just because of the injury record alone.

kaz Hirai · Mar 8, 2014

Jppf said:
Poor concentration at the back , easy acceptance of defeat and no invention upfront. Going backwards in a year when anything was possible. Baffled by most of Baldini/AVB purchases. Now hope finish 7th avoid Europa and rebuild with top notch manager.

2 things Jppf

1. Which of the 7 signings were you baffled by at the time...not in hindsight

2. Do you really want us to finish outside of Europa league places when next season gives you a CL place? Man city, and Chelsea are Certs for top 4. And one would expect Manchester united will never be so poor again and also make the top 3. I don't see us competing with arsenal even with no Europe, and of course there's Liverpool bolstered by being able to get higher quality players again

Europa may be our only real chance of CL from now on.

Sigh. How different things nearly turned out to be.

Martin fulop taking a back hander.
England capello nonsense
Not being able to put away a poor fulham team at home last season

Cursed club.

Hope our moment in the sun isn't over

lis spur · Mar 8, 2014

Tim Sherwood alone knows what was asked of him by the board.While not up there with Keegan ,you have to admire his honesty and fight ,however this Curates egg of a team would damn even the greatest and most resolute of managers.

alfie103 · Mar 8, 2014

Shadydan said:
Terry, Mertesacker, Hummels aren't the quickest but make up for it in their reading of the game and their anticipation. He is a very good defender actually, he doesn't need to be brave either, brave defenders are genuinely the ones who are normally caught out of position, Michael Dawson is brave not Vertonghen.

Anyway this argument is about whether he's good enough to sign for a top team like Real, IMO he is and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at a top club next season.

You're right that a defender doesn't need to be brave to be good, my mistake. However I don't think his judgment is very good and he gets caught out a few times as well, like at Dnipro away.

CheeseGromit · Mar 8, 2014

Northernspurs said:
Do u know what....harry had it....we shouldn't have let him go. I was all for avb...and then tim...but harry...hes a different gravy ffor all his faults

Why raise Arry. He's gone
Do QPR fans think he has got it ?
The number of new players coming in has created a void in the soul of the club
It has more to do with strong leadership off and on field.
It is only small margins that decide these games and we do not collectively believe
Right now everybody looks to be standing alone

spursram · Mar 8, 2014

We may as well pile on the shit and get it over with...did anyone notice Caulker scored 2 goals today? Presumably from open play as well.

jonathanhotspur · Mar 8, 2014

davidmatzdorf said:
There's some inconsistency in your argument. AVB showed excessive tactical rigidity and we lost several games heavily because he would not adapt his tactical setup to the requirements of specific games. Sherwood's 'all sorts of combinations' represent his attempt to be more flexible and, as in the first half today, it has worked more often than not.

In reality, after a brief, initial flirtation with an open 4-4-2 formation, Sherwood has scarcely changed AVB's formation and tactics at all. He plays one striker most of the time and, when he plays two, one of them is generally tracking back into midfield to make up the numbers. What I think Sherwood has done is to encourage players to be more adventurous and to take more risks within the formation. They have occasionally responded, but I detect some frustration from the manager that they haven't really been able to shake off the hesitancy and conservatism inculcated by AVB.

Formations are less important than fans assume. Football is a fluid game.

The first half today was a very effective tactical plan, for which Sherwood deserves credit. Then a defender slipped and made a misjudgment. Then the ref made a mistake. But then the players gave up and that's what pissed him off.

Lots that I agree with there, david.

KingKay · Mar 8, 2014

For the first time ever i walked out of the room during a Spurs game. I really don't see the point in sitting there and getting wound up by it anymore.The frequency with which we get fucked over as a club is truly outstanding. Are we cursed? In all seriousness, something is fundamentally wrong within the club, we need a no nonsense manager to bring about the complete cultural overhaul that has been necessary for decades. Enough is enough, i'm sick and tired of being second best.

falzo · Mar 8, 2014

Good on Tim for telling it how it is. I was impressed with the line up. Game plan was spot on. Not letting Chelsea play on the break, closing down and when they got passed us we fouled them so defending a set play was an easier task than getting caught on the break. Up to the first goal I was impressed by the work rate. But as we know it always goes tits up and our own doing.

As for tim give him a go. He understands the ingredients you require within a group and being captain of a league winning side I think that counts for something. He has passion and young with his own ideas,
he is on borrowed time and he has only been in the job 3 months.

Locotoro · Mar 8, 2014

Thanks

Shadydan said:
Terry, Mertesacker, Hummels aren't the quickest but make up for it in their reading of the game and their anticipation. He is a very good defender actually, he doesn't need to be brave either, brave defenders are genuinely the ones who are normally caught out of position, Michael Dawson is brave not Vertonghen.

Anyway this argument is about whether he's good enough to sign for a top team like Real, IMO he is and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at a top club next season.

With Puyol announcing he will be leaving Barca this summer along with Victor Valdes it might not be Real that are in for him and he might not be our only targetted player

Jamturk · Mar 8, 2014

davidmatzdorf said:
Up to the 2nd goal, you are right. Sherwood set up the team soundly and they played to his plan, with good effect until Vertonghen fell over and then showed poor judgment when trying to compensate.

Then the ref put the game beyond us.

But the events that led to the 3rd and 4th goals were sloppy, showed a lack of effort and concentration and an absence of team spirit. What I understood from Sherwood's comments was that he was referring to the difference between 2-0 and 4-0.

But he contradicts himself by saying more than once that after the pen the game was over.

Darth Vega · Mar 8, 2014

I think there's two sides to the interview. I respect him for what he said and he's (sadly) not wrong on a lot of things IMO. On the other hand, it's incredibly unprofessional. He spoke like somebody who knows that they're on their way out and really a lot of that should be saved for the dressing room.

There's bigger issues here though. As others have alluded to, this club needs a change. Not just a managerial change, or some more ins and outs with the squad, there needs to be a change of mentality. We've been losers for a long time. We've had some decent moments but be it the collapse in individual games like this or the spectacular 2011/2012 season (still haunts me), we seem to crumble at crucial moments. We can't keep up these sorts of performances if we want to be ambitious and establish ourselves as a top 4 club and beyond. The players and managers have to take some blame but it's happened for a long time with many different players and many different managers. Someone has to come and and shift the direction of this club and almost give us a new identity.

We are the club that is seen for always letting you down - something drastic is required to change this, or maybe it's just in our DNA, I don't know.

Darragh · Mar 8, 2014

teok said:
No difference. You bollock players in private, public humilation is a very specific tool used in a tiny amount of situations.

there is a difference... any players fergie didnt rate he got rid of pretty fucking sharpish..we seem to keep playing the same players for season aafter season and they still at club.....its unreal... we had a proper manager in redknapp who can put together teams and play and act like one for 99% of time... with that u need some luck and a chairmen who will back u and not rely on free signings like saha and nelson even if they are good pro;s.. sherwood was right to say it... any proper spurs fan can see the way the club is run.. its a fucking joke with mickey mouse players in it.. how can one expect top 4 with that in mind... all the players do is talk the talk and say stuff is unacceptable yet two weeks later go out and do the same thing over and over.. get fucking real and lets call a spade a spade for once

jonathanhotspur · Mar 8, 2014

davidmatzdorf said:
There's some inconsistency in your argument. AVB showed excessive tactical rigidity and we lost several games heavily because he would not adapt his tactical setup to the requirements of specific games. Sherwood's 'all sorts of combinations' represent his attempt to be more flexible and, as in the first half today, it has worked more often than not.

In reality, after a brief, initial flirtation with an open 4-4-2 formation, Sherwood has scarcely changed AVB's formation and tactics at all. He plays one striker most of the time and, when he plays two, one of them is generally tracking back into midfield to make up the numbers. What I think Sherwood has done is to encourage players to be more adventurous and to take more risks within the formation. They have occasionally responded, but I detect some frustration from the manager that they haven't really been able to shake off the hesitancy and conservatism inculcated by AVB.

Formations are less important than fans assume. Football is a fluid game.

The first half today was a very effective tactical plan, for which Sherwood deserves credit. Then a defender slipped and made a misjudgment. Then the ref made a mistake. But then the players gave up and that's what pissed him off.

This was what I was trying to say, david. @idontgetit put it better than I did although I expect you won't like the way he puts the boot into our players.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...-sherwood-debate.105259/page-240#post-3908364

"Add in the pressure that having no real attacking outlet puts on your defenders..."

cockjol · Mar 8, 2014

In complete control and then chelsea score from four assists from people not wearing their kit...three from our players and the ref for pen...just bizarre self destruct out of nowhere....had no problem with Sherwood's tactics after 54 minutes

davidmatzdorf · Mar 8, 2014

jonathanhotspur said:
This was what I was trying to say, david. @idontgetit put it better than I did although I expect you won't like the way he puts the boot into our players.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...-sherwood-debate.105259/page-240#post-3908364

"Add in the pressure that having no real attacking outlet puts on your defenders..."

No, that long post about team selection and formation totally misses every conceivable point. The team selection and the formation worked beautifully at neutralising Chelsea's most threatening players, until Vertonghen slipped and unwisely tried to pass the ball back to Lloris.

As I wrote, more than once, team selections and formations are far less important than fans assume when we have such a deep squad of very good players, without any longer having any really exceptional players like van der Vaart, Modric, King or Bale.

@idontgetit has spent ages trying to demonstrate that a different formation or a different player would have made all the difference. It's not so. They're all comparably good and none of them is exceptional.

We lost the game because of a slip and a bad refereeing decision. But then, having defended capably for 20-odd minutes with 10 men, we conceded two more totally avoidable goals, as a result of sloppiness and inattention.

Mr Pink · Mar 8, 2014

davidmatzdorf said:
There's some inconsistency in your argument. AVB showed excessive tactical rigidity and we lost several games heavily because he would not adapt his tactical setup to the requirements of specific games. Sherwood's 'all sorts of combinations' represent his attempt to be more flexible and, as in the first half today, it has worked more often than not.

In reality, after a brief, initial flirtation with an open 4-4-2 formation, Sherwood has scarcely changed AVB's formation and tactics at all. He plays one striker most of the time and, when he plays two, one of them is generally tracking back into midfield to make up the numbers. What I think Sherwood has done is to encourage players to be more adventurous and to take more risks within the formation. They have occasionally responded, but I detect some frustration from the manager that they haven't really been able to shake off the hesitancy and conservatism inculcated by AVB.

Formations are less important than fans assume. Football is a fluid game.

The first half today was a very effective tactical plan, for which Sherwood deserves credit. Then a defender slipped and made a misjudgment. Then the ref made a mistake. But then the players gave up and that's what pissed him off.

Great post.

Mr Pink · Mar 8, 2014

davidmatzdorf said:
No, that long post about team selection and formation totally misses every conceivable point. The team selection and the formation worked beautifully at neutralising Chelsea's most threatening players, until Vertonghen slipped and unwisely tried to pass the ball back to Lloris.

As I wrote, more than once, team selections and formations are far less important than fans assume when we have such a deep squad of very good players, without any longer having any really exceptional players like van der Vaart, Modric, King or Bale.

@idontgetit has spent ages trying to demonstrate that a different formation or a different player would have made all the difference. It's not so. They're all comparably good and none of them is exceptional.

We lost the game because of a slip and a bad refereeing decision. But then, having defended capably for 20-odd minutes with 10 men, we conceded two more totally avoidable goals, as a result of sloppiness and inattention.

Again David you've called absolutely spot on.

Every fan will be hurting after that tonight, but its simply wrong to blame Sherwood.

If anything he's gone up in my estimation tonight for a number of reasons.

I don't agree with Glen Hoddle either. I appreciated Tim's interview. All this it should stay in the dressing room from Glen...yeah like that's working.

It needed to be said and he said it.

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