The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE HISTORY OF ITK EDITION 18th June 2015

SpartanSpur · Jun 22, 2015

mpickard2087 said:
To be honest with whoever we sign, if Poch isn't a bit smarter this season it wont get the best out of any of them. It's only a key role if the set up is right. I rate Schneiderlin, but he isn't so outstanding that he wouldn't suffer if we go in light with a cm2 every single game.

We competed well in some games against tough opposition with a CM2, such as both Arsenal games and obviously the 5-3 vs Chelsea. I like Mason a lot but to be fair he has a CAM skillset, upgrading him with a very competent CM2 specialist, strong on both sides of the ball, with leadership qualities and understanding of the league and system would improve us.

That said I wholeheartedly agree Poch needs to be more flexible with his tactics and subs. Looked like he stumbled on a winner with Dembele in the hole, almost resembling an attacking 4-3-3 but seemingly ditched that entirely after the 3-2 loss to Liverpool (in which I felt we were pretty unlucky).

Timberwolf · Jun 22, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
Barcelona have five.

The point isn't about matching what other teams do now is it, it's about trying something different that may work.

Fact is that our defence was tired and looked lethargic three quarters of the way through the season and five CB's would certainly help that situation in my opinion especially with the number of games likely to be played again next season.

We have tried in the past to shoe-in players from other positions on the pitch, and if that was a success why did we not keep Naughton to cover for Rose instead of buying Davies? Why buy Trippier and Yedlin when Dier or Chiriches can cover Walker?

"Why splash out on a fifth"

Because we finished with the fifth worse defensive record in the PL, looked total shot defensively against most teams come season end and oh, still had two strikers who didn't play but cameo roles for the whole season, and thats where we have splashed out and wasted money.

But don't you think signing a fifth would send a terrible message to Dier and Wimmer? They will need games and someone will struggle to get any games at all if we have 5 CBs competing for 2 positions.

Also, I don't think buying a fifth CB is comparable to buying cover at RB/LB, either. Having 2 dedicated RB/LBs makes perfect sense, just as having 4 dedicated CBs (2 for each position) makes sense. 3 RBs would be overkill, just as having 5 CBs would be overkill (I suspect Yedlin will go on loan, hence the Trippier signing).

And I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing our squad size with other teams. If it works for them why can't it work for us? If Chelsea can play almost as many games as us with 3 dedicated CBs why can't we manage with 4? And if we're gonna compare with Barca, they didn't even need to use one of their CBs to win the triple as Vermaelen was injured for the entire season!

As for our shit defensive record, damn right it was shit. But more defenders does not a good defence make. If we can sign someone fucking amazing then great, let's do it, but I'd still prefer if we then sold Fazio so we were back down to 4.

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 22, 2015

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
Seriously WTF?? I tell you what - going by your logic maybe we should have 10 centrebacks. We'll concede even less goals then, right? Christ alive.

Our defensive failings last season were down to lack of pressing from our front four, lack of experience from our midfield two and our whole team getting used to playing under a new manager. Not purely down to how many centre backs we have in the squad.

Why is it teams like chelsea/man city can survive with 3 specialist centre backs when they also have a lot of games? Champions league games where they have to play their first team and not rotate like we can in the EL?

Coaching the whole team to defend better needs to worked on not just collecting centre backs for the sake of it.

Barcelona have five, just goes to show that five may indeed be too many i guess. I Mean what a terrible season they have had.

Christ Alive, is he a center back per chance?

mikeeegreen · Jun 22, 2015

TrickyVilla said:
I personally think Dembele is an excellent player when fit and on his game, so saying he is similar to Dembele is not an issue to me as long as he is the fit on form one that has destroyed some of the best CM's in the world on his day. He is the only player I can remember that to make an inform Toure look less than ordinary. He has also dominated midffield proceedings against Chelsea, Pool and multiple times against Yanited. The problem with Dembele is not his game type but the fact he couldn't replicate his best game anywhere near enough(a lot of that because of injury). If we were to get a player that played like Dembele but do it week in week out then imo we have a true world class DM/CM. I personally havent seen enough of him to have an opinion on whether he can be that good or not, but I have certainly seen a lot of references likening him to Dembele.

Yeah good against teams that give us space. 95% of teams will sit deep and give us very little room to operate. Dembele is poor against those sides and ends up passing the ball backwards/sideways more often than not. We don't need another player who does this.

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 22, 2015

Timberwolf said:
But don't you think signing a fifth would send a terrible message to Dier and Wimmer? They will need games and someone will struggle to get any games at all if we have 5 CBs competing for 2 positions.

Also, I don't think buying a fifth CB is comparable to buying cover at RB/LB, either. Having 2 dedicated RB/LBs makes perfect sense, just as having 4 dedicated CBs (2 for each position) makes sense. 3 RBs would be overkill, just as having 5 CBs would be overkill (I suspect Yedlin will go on loan, hence the Trippier signing).

And I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing our squad size with other teams. If it works for them why can't it work for us? If Chelsea can play almost as many games as us with 3 dedicated CBs why can't we manage with 4? And if we're gonna compare with Barca, they didn't even need to use one of their CBs to win the triple as Vermaelen was injured for the entire season!

As for our shit defensive record, damn right it was shit. But more defenders does not a good defence make. If we can sign someone fucking amazing then great, let's do it, but I'd still prefer if we then sold Fazio so we were back down to 4.

I would hope that by signing a fifth it would send a message, the same message as Walker no doubt now has, and Rose had when we got rid of Naughton and brought in Davies. Funny how Rose's game got better coincided after Davies was brought in?

It's known as competition for places, and playing a good combination through injury and suspension. At the end of the day you cannot coach tiredness out of a team and we looked very poor towards season end especially in the defence.

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 22, 2015

So it looks like the MS transfer saga is a gonna?

Hope that Levy moves ahead with plan B, which by the sound of it is Imbula who at just 22 would possibly be the better deal all round? Who are the two Germans Trix speaks of?

Young Nasty Man · Jun 22, 2015

To follow up from @TrickyVilla on Dembele...

Would have loved to see what dembele played like if he was a week in week out AM or CF/ST like he was at AZ. I'm afraid his skill set was never maximized with Spurs. The guy can literally do everything but is better on the ball than anything else. I hate player comparisons (Imbula = Dembele) because there is no point doing that when you have no clue how the game will translate to the prem. Regardless, Imbula is gonna need a huddlestone diet if he comes to England.

As for MS, is £26m really worth spending? Fact is there is so much talent coming up in the next few seasons out of our Academy. That price may not be profitable nor worth stressing over. Not that his role is best fit there either, but if this Dele Alli kid can compliment Bentaleb (who I expect to be significantly better going into the season now that he'll understand his role more), then signing a player of that value is useless. I almost rather not spend the money since we were able to finish 5th with an inconsistent defense and a midfield. I think MS is good but after Soldado money, you need to tread lightly on investments like that.

Personally, counting down the minutes until Paul Stalteri walks through the doors to take us to Glory!

TEESSIDE1 · Jun 22, 2015

Timberwolf said:
But don't you think signing a fifth would send a terrible message to Dier and Wimmer? They will need games and someone will struggle to get any games at all if we have 5 CBs competing for 2 positions.

Also, I don't think buying a fifth CB is comparable to buying cover at RB/LB, either. Having 2 dedicated RB/LBs makes perfect sense, just as having 4 dedicated CBs (2 for each position) makes sense. 3 RBs would be overkill, just as having 5 CBs would be overkill (I suspect Yedlin will go on loan, hence the Trippier signing).

And I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing our squad size with other teams. If it works for them why can't it work for us? If Chelsea can play almost as many games as us with 3 dedicated CBs why can't we manage with 4? And if we're gonna compare with Barca, they didn't even need to use one of their CBs to win the triple as Vermaelen was injured for the entire season!

As for our shit defensive record, damn right it was shit. But more defenders does not a good defence make. If we can sign someone fucking amazing then great, let's do it, but I'd still prefer if we then sold Fazio so we were back down to 4.

Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal etc all have 3 or 4 quality defenders, we don't. More importantly and not just the top 3... a lot of teams have a leader, someone who can organise the defence and keep them in good spirits (Terry, Kompany, Mertersacker, Skrtel, Jagielka, Reid, Williams, Morgan, Vlaar, Shawcross). We haven't had this since King retired.

mikeeegreen · Jun 22, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
So it looks like the MS transfer saga is a gonna?

Hope that Levy moves ahead with plan B, which by the sound of it is Imbula who at just 22 would possibly be the better deal all round? Who are the two Germans Trix speaks of?

Imbula would not be the better deal as he is nothing like MS. One of the Germans (the better choice) is Kramer. We don't know who the others are. I assume it's one of/both the Bender brothers. Who again would be much better than Imbula.

rawhide · Jun 22, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
So it looks like the MS transfer saga is a gonna?

Hope that Levy moves ahead with plan B, which by the sound of it is Imbula? Who are the two Germans Trix speaks of?

Kramer is one (tho Trix has chastised himself for letting that slip). The other is as yet undisclosed, and names will not be forthcoming for the foreseeable future according to @TrickyVilla himself.

Cue fucktons of guesses, mostly Geis and the Bender brothers (also cue juvenile sniggers...).

Take it to the Player threads people (no, I don't think there is a Geis thread as WE HAVENT ACTUALLY BEEN LINKED WITH HIM!)

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 22, 2015

mikeeegreen said:
Imbula would not be the better deal as he is nothing like MS. One of the Germans (the better choice) is Kramer. We don't know who the others are. I assume it's one of/both the Bender brothers. Who again would be much better than Imbula.

At nineteen Kramer is a real youngster. I don't see the logical connection going from MS to Imbula or Kramer? That said i agree that if the MS deal is now off, i'd take Kramer if we had a realistic chance?

mikeeegreen · Jun 22, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
At nineteen Kramer is a real youngster. I don't see the logical connection going from MS to Imbula or Kramer? That said i agree that if the MS deal is now off, i'd take Kramer if we had a realistic chance?

I'd take Kramer as well. He is very similar to MS, as are both Bender brothers. Imbula is nothing like MS. Waste of time in my eyes.

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 22, 2015

mikeeegreen said:
I'd take Kramer as well. He is very similar to MS, as are both Bender brothers. Imbula is nothing like MS. Waste of time in my eyes.

Why the "doh"

Why reply?

rawhide · Jun 22, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
Why the "doh"

Why reply?

Fat finger syndrome (ffs)?

TEESSIDE1 · Jun 22, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
At nineteen Kramer is a real youngster. I don't see the logical connection going from MS to Imbula or Kramer? That said i agree that if the MS deal is now off, i'd take Kramer if we had a realistic chance?

Kramer's 24

rawhide · Jun 22, 2015

TEESSIDE1 said:
Kramer's 24

Dammit!

(You know what voice to read that in)

Gaz_Gammon · Jun 22, 2015

TEESSIDE1 said:
Kramer's 24

Stand corrected he is indeed 24.

thekneaf · Jun 22, 2015

Kramer has also played in a WC Final. Briefly.

mikeeegreen · Jun 22, 2015

Gaz_Gammon said:
Why the "doh"

Why reply?

Sorry my bad, didn't mean to click that.

mark87 · Jun 22, 2015

thekneaf said:
Kramer has also played in a WC Final. Briefly.

You'll have to show him a video clip to prove it though as he won't remember a damn thing.

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