Spurs U21’s, U18’s and other youth news – 2015/16 Edition

Blake Griffin · Nov 8, 2015

IGSpur said:
Don't know if anyone is still watching u17 WC but we should sign this Dante Vanzeir, great assist and 2 absolute class goals to get Belgium 3rd spot. Plays for Genk, and our 'weakest' point is striker/RW. Everyone will be after him though

I noticed that azzaoui only started one of their last five games and even then he was brought off early, didn't even make it off the bench in three of those. not saying that means anything but I still maintain that if we had to lose one of our better prospects then i'd rather it was him rather than the likes of onomah/kwp/ccv/edwards.

beats1 · Nov 8, 2015

Spursidol said:
Bostock played youth football when he joined us - and Luongo was playing with us (at youth level) from about the age of 16 - only signed a pro contract at 18 as before then the law is vague as to whether he can do so at an earlier age.

So, they were not bought for Spurs first team - but joined as youth team players

I personally don't count Bostock as a proper spurs youth player because he did have his debut before us despite playing for the academy as for Luongo I agree

spurs9 · Nov 8, 2015

IGSpur said:
Don't know if anyone is still watching u17 WC but we should sign this Dante Vanzeir, great assist and 2 absolute class goals to get Belgium 3rd spot. Plays for Genk, and our 'weakest' point is striker/RW. Everyone will be after him though

Is Azzaoui playing?

IGSpur · Nov 8, 2015

Blake Griffin said:
I noticed that azzaoui only started one of their last five games and even then he was brought off early, didn't even make it off the bench in three of those. not saying that means anything but I still maintain that if we had to lose one of our better prospects then i'd rather it was him rather than the likes of onomah/kwp/ccv/edwards.

Interesting, I wondered where he was. 100% agree with you and I'd doubt many would disagree with that last statement. I stand by the fact that Azzaoui was real talent but he is by no means a huge loss, would also put the one's you said above him, and definitely consider Veljkovic a much, much greater loss. Expect him to come good in the future though

IGSpur · Nov 8, 2015

spurs9 said:
Is Azzaoui playing?

He wasn't. Don't know why but as above he hasn't featured a lot recently

spurs9 · Nov 8, 2015

Blake Griffin said:
I noticed that azzaoui only started one of their last five games and even then he was brought off early, didn't even make it off the bench in three of those. not saying that means anything but I still maintain that if we had to lose one of our better prospects then i'd rather it was him rather than the likes of onomah/kwp/ccv/edwards.

Despite having 1 game on the bench for the first team, he has struggled to even make the Wolfsburg 2nd team (just 1 x 15 min sub apps) and their UEFA Youth League team (just 1 apps).

Spursidol · Nov 8, 2015

beats1 said:
I personally don't count Bostock as a proper spurs youth player because he did have his debut before us despite playing for the academy as for Luongo I agree

understand the point you are making, but he wasn't bought as a first team player and started at Spurs playing u18 football like any 16 year old (the age we bought him at), not even u21 football. Think he had only made a couple of CP appearances as well.

Always a question of where the line is drawn - for me its whether they are bought young enough to be playing u18 football at Spurs on a regular basis.

spurs9 · Nov 8, 2015

Spursidol said:
understand the point you are making, but he wasn't bought as a first team player and started at Spurs playing u18 football like any 16 year old (the age we bought him at), not even u21 football. Think he had only made a couple of CP appearances as well.

Always a question of where the line is drawn - for me its whether they are bought young enough to be playing u18 football at Spurs on a regular basis.

Don't forget that Bostock played for is in the EL at the age of 16, coming on as a sub when we played a full strength team.

newbie · Nov 8, 2015

Spursidol said:
understand the point you are making, but he wasn't bought as a first team player and started at Spurs playing u18 football like any 16 year old (the age we bought him at), not even u21 football. Think he had only made a couple of CP appearances as well.

Always a question of where the line is drawn - for me its whether they are bought young enough to be playing u18 football at Spurs on a regular basis.

Bostock was a bit of a cock up in he came to spurs when he was playing first team football to go in our under 18s it must have stagnated him, also it was a really talented bunch we should have had more faith in Kassim, Mason, ect

Also kids are really under estimated Dier, Kane, Ali, all look world beaters 18 months ago they were no bodies really. I know people say they need exp young but passion, hard work and no fear can make up for exp.

edson · Nov 8, 2015

Blake Griffin said:
I noticed that azzaoui only started one of their last five games and even then he was brought off early, didn't even make it off the bench in three of those. not saying that means anything but I still maintain that if we had to lose one of our better prospects then i'd rather it was him rather than the likes of onomah/kwp/ccv/edwards.

I have still not got over losing him such a good talent.

Spursidol · Nov 8, 2015

spurs9 said:
Don't forget that Bostock played for is in the EL at the age of 16, coming on as a sub when we played a full strength team.

Yup, but I do wonder if that was part of the agreement/enticement for him to transfer to us - look 'we'll play you in one or two first team games in EL shortly after you join us and then we'll take it from there'

He played ok for us in EL (think he made about 3 EL appearances in that campaign) but never became a first team regular for us though.

spurs9 · Nov 8, 2015

beats1 said:
He has to start against Qarabag imo and if anything I would take a second string team there as 2 draws will be enough to get us through. I would even consider giving Lloris a rest with the travel time the squad will face. I think we can trust our players against Qarabag away to get at least a draw and even if they don't, we win the next match, we are still through

I think our fans are underestimating Qarabag. It won't be an easy game, they are still in with a very good chance to qualify, so will be giving their all and they have't lost at home in 5 games in Europe this season, in fact the have kept 4 clean sheets and only conceeded 1 goal. They have beat a full strength Anderlecht and drew against a full strength Monaco.

That being said, I want every first 11 player that will play v Chelsea rested due to the travel time (which is why I was so desperate that we got 3 points v Anderlecht), so I want Onomah to start, but I just don't expect much from this game. Hopefully Monaco & Anderlecht draw again, meaning we could lose to Qarabag (As long as it's not by more than 1, draw at Monaco and still qualify.

IGSpur · Nov 8, 2015

spurs9 said:
I think our fans are underestimating Qarabag. It won't be an easy game, they are still in with a very good chance to qualify, so will be giving their all and they have't lost at home in 5 games in Europe this season, in fact the have kept 4 clean sheets and only conceeded 1 goal. They have beat a full strength Anderlecht and drew against a full strength Monaco.

That being said, I want every first 11 player that will play v Chelsea rested due to the travel time (which is why I was so desperate that we got 3 points v Anderlecht), so I want Onomah to start, but I just don't expect much from this game. Hopefully Monaco & Anderlecht draw again, meaning we could lose to Qarabag (As long as it's not by more than 1, draw at Monaco and still qualify.

Like the other EL games, I think we should start Winks and Onomah, and have KWP, Harrison and maybe CCV on the bench.

I know Poch talks about meaningful minutes and I know those on the bench most likely won't get anything else for the rest of the season but it's an opportunity to leave some first teamers at home, not drastically weaken to main EL team and potentially give some youngsters experience, and who knows if they do play well it may lead to more significant minutes. If somehow Veljkovic is being considered I'd start him over Winks as holding. Real shame Pritchard is injured

IGSpur · Nov 8, 2015

spurs9 said:
Despite having 1 game on the bench for the first team, he has struggled to even make the Wolfsburg 2nd team (just 1 x 15 min sub apps) and their UEFA Youth League team (just 1 apps).

Appears to be a bit of a cruddy move so far, would be seeing major mins for our u21s atm

spurs9 · Nov 8, 2015

IGSpur said:
Like the other EL games, I think we should start Winks and Onomah, and have KWP, Harrison and maybe CCV on the bench.

I know Poch talks about meaningful minutes and I know those on the bench most likely won't get anything else for the rest of the season but it's an opportunity to leave some first teamers at home, not drastically weaken to main EL team and potentially give some youngsters experience, and who knows if they do play well it may lead to more significant minutes. If somehow Veljkovic is being considered I'd start him over Winks as holding. Real shame Pritchard is injured

If Veljkovic was being considered, I would have him at CB instead of Fazio. I think I would go with

Vorm
Trippier Fazio/Milos Wimmer Davies
Winks Carroll
Townsend Onomah Njie
Son

Bench - McGee, KWP, CCV, Bentaleb (if fit), Walkes, Chadli (if fit) & McEvoy.

spurs9 · Nov 8, 2015

IGSpur said:
Appears to be a bit of a cruddy move so far, would be seeing major mins for our u21s atm

Could even get off the bench v Qarabag when you take into account injuries, travel time & Chelsea up next.

spurs9 · Nov 8, 2015

Spursidol said:
I like the sentiment of what is being said.

Looking at the detail though :

Harry Kane - Had first team debut in EL under HR, given short run before plenty of loans, then TS gave him 6 PL starts in which he scored 3 PL goals. Poch then included him as 3rd striker before Adebayor/Soldado's goal scoring form (or lack of) forced Poch to bring him into PL. Give Poch some kudos for helping develop him, but mostly Kane himself and previous coaching/experience which has made him the striker he is today.

Ryan Mason - Had EL debut under HR, then plenty of loans. Brought into pre-season squad by Poch as all other CM's (except Capoue) were away on WC duty. Mason showed great form in pre-season and unlucky to be injured before season started before being brought into the first team where we were struggling in CM. Kudos to Poch for having the balls to bring him in over more established but under-performing CM's - and then to pair him with Bentaleb. No doubt Poch has also helped develop his play

Nabil Bentaleb - Brought into the first team to the surprise even of the youth watchers by TS and gained PL experience. Kudos to Poch for picking him over more established but under-performing CM's and pairing him with Mason.

Eric Dier - Bought in as a first team player with limited experience at Sporting Lisbon (but still 30 appearances) as CB and DM. Has done fantastically well at Spurs, but Poch's role has been mainly to polish a rough diamond, but kudos to Poch for trusting him (and Eric has repaid that by appearances at CB, RB and DM).

Dele Alli - Pretty much as Dier. Kudos to Poch for picking a former League 1 star, but probably most kudos to whoever agreed to buy him at Spurs.

Now onto Poch's achievements with those who have come through the youth system but not played in a competitive first team match before Poch arrived :

Milos Veljkovic - Played pre-season for HR at aged 15, then a game or two n the North American pre-season tour 2014 under Poch and complimented by Poch after u21 games before being loaned out 2014/15, but not seen again in first team action.

Dominic Ball - Complimented by Poch after u21 games and on bench last season but no first team appearances. Now on loan at Rangers

Josh Onomah - Brought into first team squad aged 18 this season with handful of appearances totalling about 30 minutes - so kudos for Poch for that. Hopefully he'll get his first start soon - pretty much all his England contemporaries have already made this step already.

Harry Winks - As Onomah, except with less appearances and less minutes.

So Poch's reputation with youth at Spurs (right now) seems to rest mainly with polishing youngsters with limited first team experience (not bringing them into the first team as some have claimed)

What we now need to hope for is that he gives first team bench time and debuts to some of the youngsters brought through Spurs youth system who look like they will make it, and there are plenty of them, And more will be available next season when they are a year older and more experienced

When talking in the context of bringing players form our U18s & U21s through, I don't think it is fair to comment on Kane, Mason (arguably), Bentaleb, Dier or Alli regardless of if it is pro Poch or not.

If you are including Ball in the list of assessments, I think Oduwa and possibly Ogilvie should be included too.

THFCSPURS19 · Nov 9, 2015

The guy we've been linked with:

FIFA.com ‏@FIFAcom 4m4 minutes ago
Congratulations to Nigeria’s Victor Osimhen - adidas Golden Boot winner #U17WC

Spursidol · Nov 9, 2015

spurs9 said:
When talking in the context of bringing players form our U18s & U21s through, I don't think it is fair to comment on Kane, Mason (arguably), Bentaleb, Dier or Alli regardless of if it is pro Poch or not.

If you are including Ball in the list of assessments, I think Oduwa and possibly Ogilvie should be included too.

Reason for including Mason (in particular), but also Kane, Dier and Alli is that many are justifying the description of Poch 'being good with youth players' by including these - which I can see some logic in, as when he arrived they were (arguably) not automatically part of the first team squad and he has almost certainly helped to 'polish' the slightly rough diamonds that they may have been.

But I do agree with you that, they are a very different proposition from bringing the kids up from the Spurs youth system which I think should be Poch's test on how committed and good with youth he is (but as I say that's not how others see it).

My comments on Nathan Oduwa would be :

Nathan Oduwa - Poch saw and complimented him on his Spurs u21 performances last season, and included him in the 'behind closed doors' pre-season friendlies where he is reported to have excelled against the Champiionship sides, but unfortunately could not find room for him in the televised pre-season games when the full squad was available. Sent out on loan this season to Rangers

Not sure there's enough to report on Connor Ogilvie, or indeed the likes of Cameron Carter-Vickers and Kyle Walker-Peters who Poch is said to have admired in the youth system last season

Spursidol · Nov 9, 2015

spurs9 said:
If Veljkovic was being considered, I would have him at CB instead of Fazio. I think I would go with

Vorm
Trippier Fazio/Milos Wimmer Davies
Winks Carroll
Townsend Onomah Njie
Son
Bench - McGee, KWP, CCV, Bentaleb (if fit), Walkes, Chadli (if fit) & McEvoy.

I quite like that side.

Not a big fan of McEvoy, he's not developed much in the last couple of years and has only made about 10 appearances (including off the bench) on loan, but I agree not too many alternatives in the youth set up - except Shaq Coulthirst who like McEvoy has not developed as much as we had hoped in the last couple of years, but on loan to League 1 and 2 clubs has made almost 50 appearances (admittedly many off the bench for short times) and scored about 10 goals (plus of course made one first team appearance under AVB).

As you know Shaq can play up front or as a right sided striker, and at present is back from his loan.

If you are considering McEvoy, would you consider him as part of the squad, probably on the bench but maybe even to start (resting Clinton or Son ?

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