Cornpattbuck
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- Jul 23, 2013
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If they'd stop parachuting CL teams into the EL for a second bite of the cherry, everyone would take the competition more seriously.
We need a miracle
- Thread starter ginola99
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spud
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- Sep 2, 2003
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Those successes were the result of Ken Bates spending more than other teams at the time. It wasn't spending on the Abramovich scale but it was outspending others at the relatively lower levels of that time. It's also worth remarking that Chelsea were said to be days away from liquidation as a result of that spending when the russian bought them.
Bates 'did a Leeds' and got away with it.
Sadly.
Yep. Each game at a time may be a cliche but I think you are right. A contemporary spin might be the need for the team to essentially practice mindfulness.
ginola99
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- Sep 4, 2005
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No it's not and to answer your question I don't know. Whilst I don't doubt the importance of finishing in the Top 4 Still find staggering that all I hear about with regards to the club is CL football, another facet:
Between 1960 and 1992 this club won 12 Major trophies and lost just 2 finals. Glory.
In the 23 years since the PL's inauguration we have won 2 Major trophies and lost 3 finals, all in the LC. Starved
In the 23 years since the PL's inauguration we have won 2 Major trophies and lost 3 finals, all in the LC. Starved
CL football or not the above is staggering, how the club sees CL qualification as Glory when we've won just 2 League Cups in 24 years is beyond me. We need to start fighting on ALL fronts.
eddiev14
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- Jan 18, 2005
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This is the problem.
If there was an easy solution every club would be doing it.
I'd love us to win more trophies but the reality is that it is the years of Champions League football that has created the financial gulf between us and the likes of Arsenal and Manchester United (City and Chelsea just won the lottery).
This has allowed them to have an increased wage bill, sign and retain the best players and therefore have a squad with the depth and quality they need to be able to challenge on all fronts (and make sure they get their Champions League bonus each year to keep them competitive).
I'm sorry, but between 1960 and 1992 the game just wasn't the same. Pretty much anyone could win anything and most of the top 10 clubs in the first division could compete for pretty much any player. It's completely different now.
I think that the only way we can bridge the gap is by doing what we did about 5 years ago and put a load of money into youth development and facilities to attract and retain the best young talent so that we can create a more loyal group of talented players and cope better when star players leave.
The problem we've had this season is that the squad is bloated full of players like Capoue, Adebayor, Paulinho etc who clearly don't want to be there.
This resulted in Poch feeling he could trust only 12-15 players whilst fighting on all fronts. Naturally these guys burnt out and our challenge in all competitions faltered around March.
I actually think that what we are doing now with the kids is going to put us in a far better position to win trophies. If they are talented enough - as many of them are - we will be able to use them in the earlier rounds of the cups and keep everyone in the squad hungry and on their toes.
Supplement that with a few summer buys of players Poch actually needs to play his desired style and I think we can close the gap in the league and go further in the cups (definitely think we can start to create a gap between us and Liverpool too).
ginola99
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I agree with your post as a whole but it was this bit that I agree with the most.
Our only hope is in the academy IMHO, an assumption based not just on their talents but also on how they know and trust each others game. Also with the market becoming as ridiculous as it is there may be a time when there is more sellers than there are buyers, whilst some teams sink we could potntially cruise into a very comfortable position after growing our own players not tapping them up and paying way over the asking price.
goughie1966
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- Aug 28, 2008
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The days of winning the FA cup have become very difficult since the start of the PL. The top 4 have had a monopoly on the competition and it's become a victim of the Sky money unfortunately. If you're outside the top 4 you need a huge amount of luck to avoid one of the top 4 or catch them on a bad day. Spurs don't do luck and rarely do we catch them on a bad day.
Since the beginning of the Premier league there have only been 3 winners outside of the top four of Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool then City who replaced Liverpool in 23 years. And only once in 23 years was there a final without one of the top 4. This is even more frightening when you think none of the top 4 give it priority until they have no chance of winning the PL or CL. You need to catch them early on when they play weakened sides.
Having said that Utd and Arsenal have knocked us out in the opening round.
Wenger has finally decided that it's time to start winning the FA cup as they have little chance of winning the league or CL. Now he's won 2 in a row.
So in the last 23 years when did we have the best chance of winning the cup? We lost to Portsmouth in a semi final but that would have meant meeting Chelsea in the final. We lost to Everton in a semi and they went on to beat Utd, could we?
The 3 teams winning the FA cup final since 1992 and not in the top 4
Everton beating Utd (Everton beat us in the semi, would we have beaten Utd in the final?)
Portsmouth beating Cardiff (we lost to Utd 3-1 first round)
Wigan beating City. (we lost to Leeds
but they got drawn away to City after that and lost 4-0)
We have a terrible record against the top 4 in all competitions so I'm not convinced we'd beat any of them in a final. Our record proves that.
So the 3 times when a top 4 side didn't win it, we'd have had to beat Utd in the final, beaten Utd at OT in the third round or beaten City away in the 4th round. The 2 times Liverpool have won it in the last 23 years would have meant us beating Arsenal in the final or Chelsea in round 6.
Sorry but I don't see us winning the FA cup anytime soon.
Since the beginning of the Premier league there have only been 3 winners outside of the top four of Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool then City who replaced Liverpool in 23 years. And only once in 23 years was there a final without one of the top 4. This is even more frightening when you think none of the top 4 give it priority until they have no chance of winning the PL or CL. You need to catch them early on when they play weakened sides.
Having said that Utd and Arsenal have knocked us out in the opening round.
Wenger has finally decided that it's time to start winning the FA cup as they have little chance of winning the league or CL. Now he's won 2 in a row.
So in the last 23 years when did we have the best chance of winning the cup? We lost to Portsmouth in a semi final but that would have meant meeting Chelsea in the final. We lost to Everton in a semi and they went on to beat Utd, could we?
The 3 teams winning the FA cup final since 1992 and not in the top 4
Everton beating Utd (Everton beat us in the semi, would we have beaten Utd in the final?)
Portsmouth beating Cardiff (we lost to Utd 3-1 first round)
Wigan beating City. (we lost to Leeds
but they got drawn away to City after that and lost 4-0)We have a terrible record against the top 4 in all competitions so I'm not convinced we'd beat any of them in a final. Our record proves that.
So the 3 times when a top 4 side didn't win it, we'd have had to beat Utd in the final, beaten Utd at OT in the third round or beaten City away in the 4th round. The 2 times Liverpool have won it in the last 23 years would have meant us beating Arsenal in the final or Chelsea in round 6.
Sorry but I don't see us winning the FA cup anytime soon.
tototoner
Staying Alert
- Mar 21, 2004
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The British media rubbish the Europa League, no one else in Europe does.
SteveH
BSoDL candidate for SW London
- Jul 21, 2003
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But it wouldn't half make me happy!
Spurger King
can't smile without glue
- Jul 22, 2008
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Not true. I know some Italian clubs have dismissed it as a joke of a tournament.
ginola99
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- Sep 4, 2005
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- #133
Part of the reason why I feel we should focus on trophies is because the top four places are dominated by the top four spenders, remember two of those clubs have spent over a billion each in the last ten years!!!
It is sadly a monopoly that sometimes feel worthless in huffing and puffing away at. Regardless as to what the media perception of the Europe League is it is a trophy worth winning. I find astonishing that the for the first ten years of me supporting this club all I ever heard was "we need to be in the top six" over and over again. In the ten years since we have finished there 7 times, not bad considering we failed to finish there once in 15 years, and people still aren't happy or even content!
Just look at Newcastle and Leeds, they obsessed over it for years and paid such a heavy price for it. Looking at them makes me happy that haven't out spent beyond our means, stagnation is better than decline.
It is sadly a monopoly that sometimes feel worthless in huffing and puffing away at. Regardless as to what the media perception of the Europe League is it is a trophy worth winning. I find astonishing that the for the first ten years of me supporting this club all I ever heard was "we need to be in the top six" over and over again. In the ten years since we have finished there 7 times, not bad considering we failed to finish there once in 15 years, and people still aren't happy or even content!
Just look at Newcastle and Leeds, they obsessed over it for years and paid such a heavy price for it. Looking at them makes me happy that haven't out spent beyond our means, stagnation is better than decline.
I thnk that was a real missed opportunity, we have been crying out for a striker for a long time thank god for Harry Kane, sad thing is we have been a player or two away from being a bloody good team for a long time, worse still we have had all the players we need just not at the same time.
With my pessimistic hat on:-
I do not think it is possible for us to compete on all fronts as regardless of size of our squad, I think Poch likes to use as few players as possible.
Mourinho is a bit guilty of this, I think that is why he has not won the CL with Chelsea.
As for player recruitment, we can't win any kind of bidding war against the top 4, and we don't have CL football to use as leaverage. So we have to try and close the gap in other ways. Either we try and develop talent, or we use somebody like Arnesen/Comolli/Baldini to un-earth talent that slips under the radar of the top 4
I do not think it is possible for us to compete on all fronts as regardless of size of our squad, I think Poch likes to use as few players as possible.
Mourinho is a bit guilty of this, I think that is why he has not won the CL with Chelsea.
As for player recruitment, we can't win any kind of bidding war against the top 4, and we don't have CL football to use as leaverage. So we have to try and close the gap in other ways. Either we try and develop talent, or we use somebody like Arnesen/Comolli/Baldini to un-earth talent that slips under the radar of the top 4
ginola99
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- Sep 4, 2005
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Did the BBC 'My Premier League Life' this morning and this came up.
I think those numbers on the right include charity shields (shared or won). Really hit home how bad we've been at winning trophies.
To put it into context, before 1992 we'd won a staggering 13 major cup finals out of 16, success rate of 80%. Infact we won all of our first 9 (1901 - 1973) cup finals!
Since 1992? We have reached 5 cup finals (all of which have been in the League Cup 1999 - 2015) and won just 2 of those, success rate of 40%. It's halved.
Watching the re-amergeance of Spurs in the last 10 years is like watching the re-average of the UK from the early 80s onwards. Yes there's growth but there's nothing to show for it, no manufacturering, no trophies.
The last thing I want to do is put pressure on our players, you must win this, you must win that. But they have to reach cup finals. 5 cup finals in 15 years is not good enough for this club, at minimum it should be 5 cup finals in 8 year, regardless as to whether or not we're in the CL.
I think those numbers on the right include charity shields (shared or won). Really hit home how bad we've been at winning trophies.
To put it into context, before 1992 we'd won a staggering 13 major cup finals out of 16, success rate of 80%. Infact we won all of our first 9 (1901 - 1973) cup finals!
Since 1992? We have reached 5 cup finals (all of which have been in the League Cup 1999 - 2015) and won just 2 of those, success rate of 40%. It's halved.
Watching the re-amergeance of Spurs in the last 10 years is like watching the re-average of the UK from the early 80s onwards. Yes there's growth but there's nothing to show for it, no manufacturering, no trophies.
The last thing I want to do is put pressure on our players, you must win this, you must win that. But they have to reach cup finals. 5 cup finals in 15 years is not good enough for this club, at minimum it should be 5 cup finals in 8 year, regardless as to whether or not we're in the CL.
ginola99
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- Sep 4, 2005
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And so the trophy drought goes on...
I didn't expect us to win tonight, Dortmund are favourites and when I saw the draw my initial reaction was 'f@#k!' But to play like that was awful, actually hurtful to watch yet another chance to win something pathetically wasted really, p!ssed me off.
In such a mood right now, might come back and be a bit embarrassed once I've calmed down but once again so dissapointing and near infuriating.
Actually makes me upset just seeing us go year after year without a trophy. I know they're young, I know the starting XI weren't a stroke of genius and I know the defending could've been better but still!
They've still got a long way to go this lot.
I didn't expect us to win tonight, Dortmund are favourites and when I saw the draw my initial reaction was 'f@#k!' But to play like that was awful, actually hurtful to watch yet another chance to win something pathetically wasted really, p!ssed me off.
In such a mood right now, might come back and be a bit embarrassed once I've calmed down but once again so dissapointing and near infuriating.
Actually makes me upset just seeing us go year after year without a trophy. I know they're young, I know the starting XI weren't a stroke of genius and I know the defending could've been better but still!
They've still got a long way to go this lot.
TheHoddleWaddle
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- Dec 13, 2013
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It's a bit dramatic resorting to this thread. 2nd in the league anyone?
TheHoddleWaddle
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- Dec 13, 2013
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Frustrating though, entirely agree.
