We need a miracle

[kungfugrip]

In the League Cup, we always have a chance, but only because the Sky Five take it less seriously. The fact that we've won it twice and been losing finalists twice more in the last 20 years proves that. Even so, in the last 10 years the cartel has been starting to monopolise the League Cup too, just like they've monopolised the FA Cup. Since Boro won in 2004, only we, Birmingham and Swansea have succeeded in muscling in; United have won it three times, Chelsea twice, and City and Liverpool once each; more worrying, at least one of the Sky Five has figured in every final bar 2013, which was a bit of a freak. You could argue that, since we've figured in three finals since 2004, it'a become a Top Six monopoly.

fixed that for you.

 

[Main Man]

London trophy table

1. Arsenal 28 (13 League titles, 12 FA Cups, 2 League Cups & 1 ECWC)
2. Chelsea 21 (5 League titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups, 1 CL, 1 EL, 2 ECWC)
3. Tottenham Hotspur 17 (2 League titles, 8 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 2 EL, 1 ECWC)
4. West Ham 4 (3 FA Cups, 1 ECWC)

The gap is now getting bigger between ourselves and those two yet people still bang on about how our No. 1 priority should be to qualify for the CL, Surely the past five years should be a lesson to us all that CL qualfication is not the magic bullet that most see it to be, we still have the pessimism and losing mentality that has festerd since the 90s.

Trophies is what eradicates a losing mentality not finishing 4th or 3rd.

Finishing 4th this season would have been a much greater achievement than winning the Carling Cup though, don't you think?
Especially considering the draw we had leading up to the final.

With regards your last bit, that criticism was aimed at Arsenal in their period of no trophies in so many years despite finishing in the top 4 each time so perhaps you are right.

From a Spurs point of view though, I am not sure what difference winning the Carling Cup this season would have made to our squads mentality.

I don't like how we constantly criticise our players mentality, I simply look at them as just not being good enough. By criticising their mentality you are suggesting they would be winners if it changed, and that is complete nonsense.

 

[SteveH]

This football malarky is not easy is it!
We are so far behind ManU and Chelsea and now City income wise. We can now add Arsenal to that list, but they deserve some real credit as they have used common sense to improve the clubs fortunes not just waiting to be lucky with gaining a rich owners.

Good news for you lot is Spurs are using similar methods as Arsenal to improve the club.
Bad news is we are a long long way behind financially and it will take some considerable time.

If you are unhappy with our current situation, which I am not by the way. I would really reset your goals on what to expect from supporting Spurs or for that matter any team outside the aforementioned top four and if you dont believe me go chat to a few Liverpool fans or even those poor souls at Villa. Its tough!

Off to watch England lose the 2nd test......

Don't ya just love sport......

Miracles are not allowed under FFP!

 

[Gilzeanking]

1: Hence why one should prioritise EL more, not less. Be in it to win it, not "minimise the terrible effect on the league".
2: Eriksen said he came to the club because of EL. Isn't he the right type of signings for us?
3: We haven't been vaguely close to going for it, believing in it or wanting it.
4: Fewer matches needed to go all the way doesn't sound too bad to me


Side notes: We also dropped points after prolonged breaks this season (breaks of 8-14 days due to internationals etc). Matches directly following COC saw us dropping points too. EL is not the problem. Our approach to EL, viewing it as a burden and a chore, is.

You mean who exactly ? The club ? What more can Poch do than take his first team out the nowhereistan .The club seems pretty determined to win to me . The Players ? Well there may be a point I dunno . The SCers ? Opinions are naturally widespread
there can't be a 'problem' with that , we say what we want in here , with zero effect on the outcome of matches .

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

You mean who exactly ? The club ? What more can Poch do than take his first team out the nowhereistan .The club seems pretty determined to win to me . The Players ? Well there may be a point I dunno . The SCers ? Opinions are naturally widespread
there can't be a 'problem' with that , we say what we want in here , with zero effect on the outcome of matches .

The club & players. Didn't Friedel recently confirm what I'm saying? That the problem with EL is largely mental, implying that the approach to and status of EL is wrong, but participation in the competition is not.

 

[lol]

i'll still take cl qualification over cup. cup wins u name in the history books, good. but it doesnt help the club progress. no one is gonna go 'i wanna play for tottenham because they won the fa cup"

when we get cl, better players will come. when better players come we will have a higher chance to win trophys on more end.

 

[Lilbaz]

i'll still take cl qualification over cup. cup wins u name in the history books, good. but it doesnt help the club progress. no one is gonna go 'i wanna play for tottenham because they won the fa cup"

when we get cl, better players will come. when better players come we will have a higher chance to win trophys on more end.

El gives you cl so i would rather win the el than get cl in the league (unless it was by winning it).

 

[lol]

El gives you cl so i would rather win the el than get cl in the league (unless it was by winning it).

i was all for winning the EL. not only you get cup glory but also CL qualification, best of both worlds. i was referring to FA cup though cause the OP was talking mostly about FA cup

 

[Mullers]

People say being in the champions league doesn't mean anything if you don't win it but......

Surely there is a direct correlation between consistent presence in the champions league and number of actual trophy wins?

We mocked arsenal for not winning antic for 8 years and they've responded worth two FA Cup wins in two years and seem to be improving on the pitch and off it financially.

I think looking at the bigger picture, IE the wealth and status champions league football brings and, with that, the subsequent success that inevitably comes.

10 years of champions league football equates to 2 FA cups, it doesn't seem that great a trophy haul to me.

 

[BK007]

Superb post.

So many people on here disparage the Cups and the EL for a fourth place we continuously show we have no mettle to achieve. Maybe if we actually started winning and breeding that winning mentality, that expectation, we would stop losing and bottling under pressure.

When we got knocked out of the Europa League, like half the people on here wanted, what did we do? Went on a godawful run. So much for more preparation and whatnot. It's not just Poch, as much as I am not convinced by him, this cancerous EL is shit approach that English teams take towards it is what weighs them down.

Look at the Spanish teams. Look at Sevilla, they are now 1 on the all time winners chart, defended the trophy, qualified for CL and finished 5th in La Liga. They can't compete for the League, but look at their successes. I'd say they're doing very well compared to us, screwing up every opportunity possible, most of the time down to the basics. No tactics, no defense, no plan Bs, no width and most of all no mentality. We are predictable in our failure. Why would any team, leading 4-1 against Chelsea feel like we still had the opportunity to lose? How is it Spurs fans feel like there is a sizeable chance that we would concede 4 goals in one half after dominating the first half? And it's not just Chelsea. We have lucked so many games; Leicester, Burnley etc. Why would we, should we fear losing when we lead 1-0 in the second half? It's the mentality that has to change from top to bottom.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

10 years of champions league football equates to 2 FA cups, it doesn't seem that great a trophy haul to me.

That's selective though isn't it?
They've been in the champions league every season since 1997? How many trophies in that time?
They had a lul after building the stadium and skinting themselves.
But they managed to maintain a position in the CL year on year despite losing great players. Just being in it meant they fluke reinvest the money on new, CL class players and now the finances have balanced out they have two trophies and a fuck load of money every year.
If you don't think they're going to widen the gap in the coming seasons you're deluded.

 

[Mullers]

I

That's selective though isn't it?
They've been in the champions league every season since 1997? How many trophies in that time?
They had a lul after building the stadium and skinting themselves.
But they managed to maintain a position in the CL year on year despite losing great players. Just being in it meant they fluke reinvest the money on new, CL class players and now the finances have balanced out they have two trophies and a fuck load of money every year.
If you don't think they're going to widen the gap in the coming seasons you're deluded.

I'm just stating a fact, I'm well aware they've won a lot of trophies but over the last ten years they've won two FA cups whatever the reasons, it's not a great return. Not winning any trophies had made many Arsenal fans turn against Wenger despite qualifying year after year for the CL.
I'm sure they will widen the gap, I never thought anything different.

 

[SFCS]

Typically 3 or 4 teams in England will win any of the top trophies* with any regularity. Those teams fade in and out of success too. It's a shame that we've not been in that group since the early 80s but there we are, it happens. For everyone else winning a trophy is a fantastic bonus in a season and that's where we are. It's the same with the CL, I mean that was a great bonus to the season and I'm sure we all have lots of fond memories of the following CL campaign, don't we?

Is qualifying for the CL better than a trophy? Well it depends, doesn't it? I'd be interested to know what Wigan fans have to say about it. Would they swap a quite extraordinary FA Cup win over City for a place in the top 4, no relegation, no losing manager and players, no second relegation? I'd bet some would and some wouldn't. It's the same for us, CL qualification doesn't automatically mean you attract top players and can afford to buy them but neither does winning the FA Cup automatically instill a "winning mentality" that catapults you to more and more trophies.

Ultimately I think people should worry less about what bonus is best and get back to just enjoying being a supporter. Too many fans these days get caught up in the pissing contests with other fans and forget that first and foremost they should enjoy supporting their club, going to games or watching them on the box. Having the best trophy record in London would be great, as would being the best side in England, as would another few cracks at the CL but at the end of the day the only guarantee at the end of the season is that you'll still be a supporter so enjoy that.


*By that I mean the domestic trophies that include top division sides and European trophies.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Sorry, but as cheerful and grandiose at this sounds, in modern football, it's bullshit.

Getting Champions League football is much more important than winning a domestic cup. Sure, we didn't make the most of it transfer-wise when it finally happened in 2010. Doesn't mean it's not true.

There is no link between winning trophies developing a winning spirit and then getting UCL. Arsenal happened to win two years in a row now due to gift draws into the final...two years ago the main joke was that they had no silverware.

The reason Arsenal are so far above us now is because they qualify for the top flight of European football year in and year out, and get all the money, and players, and marketing, and acclaim, and etc and etc and etc that comes with it.

1997 (IIRC) was when Arsenal first made it to the new Champions League. And they've been doing it ever since.

THAT is the reason for the gap. The domestic trophies mean less (rightly so) nowadays, meaning there is less emphasis to win them, and with that it's just easier for teams with the best squads to make it to the finals. The better teams will tend to pick up more trophies over time, all things equal, even if they don't care as much about said trophies as they once did.

 

[Spurger King]

Ultimately I think people should worry less about what bonus is best and get back to just enjoying being a supporter. Too many fans these days get caught up in the pissing contests with other fans and forget that first and foremost they should enjoy supporting their club, going to games or watching them on the box. Having the best trophy record in London would be great, as would being the best side in England, as would another few cracks at the CL but at the end of the day the only guarantee at the end of the season is that you'll still be a supporter so enjoy that.

That's all a bit idealistic isn't it? If all that mattered was just simply enjoying being a supporter it wouldn't matter if we ever won another game. Instead we'd just politely clap every time the opposition score, and avoid showing any indications of ambition in case some 'super fan' chastises them for not meekly accepting the status quo as we gradually slip out of the league altogether.

Being a football fan is akin to being part of a tribe, and it's human nature to want your tribe to succeed. Being critical of Spurs' lack of success over the last few decades is hardly a sign of an impatient glory hunter, and it's hardly surprising that a lot of fans look around at some other clubs, see the joy their fans get from actually winning trophies, and want to experience something like that themselves.

 

[southparkspurs]

Not sure if already mentioned but I felt good about our chances in Europa this season... then the worst thing happened, we get chelsea in the cup final 3 days after the trip to Florence. .

Upto that match eriksen and kane had been running our side and walker love him or hate him also a main part.. was obvious to me that the game in florence which I was at.. that we had made the game secondary to the cup final.. putting kane and walker on the bench. .. in my opinion we should've gone all out with strongest 11 for that match and the momentum and adrenaline of a win would've seen us into the cup final..

Those 3 days saw the collapse of season.. as silly as it sounds you really should take each game as it comes.. we could've been Europa league finalists this year..

 

[SFCS]

That's all a bit idealistic isn't it? If all that mattered was just simply enjoying being a supporter it wouldn't matter if we ever won another game. Instead we'd just politely clap every time the opposition score, and avoid showing any indications of ambition in case some 'super fan' chastises them for not meekly accepting the status quo as we gradually slip out of the league altogether.

Being a football fan is akin to being part of a tribe, and it's human nature to want your tribe to succeed. Being critical of Spurs' lack of success over the last few decades is hardly a sign of an impatient glory hunter, and it's hardly surprising that a lot of fans look around at some other clubs, see the joy their fans get from actually winning trophies, and want to experience something like that themselves.

I went to Bournemouth v Blackpool this season and Blackpool's record was as close to your scenario of never winning a game as is possible(4 wins in 46). They lost 4-0, which was pretty much par for them in away games and they still supported the team and had fun. I don't know if this is representative of all Blackpool's games but if it is then they saved their vitriol for the owners to protests away from the pitch until the final day and chose to spend their time in the stadium supporting their team. That's how it should be, in my opinion.

They didn't politely clap either, they had fun and late on when they were 4-0 down they earned a succession of corners which led to some good chances and were all still cheering the team on.

There are also non-league fans that see some pretty poor football every week but they're not turning up every week to see them as an act of charity, they're there because they get enjoyment out of it. I'm sure they'd love it if their team was lifting the CL at the end of the season, as any fan would but their enjoyment doesn't rest on quotas of trophies being met, or league position. This is what I'm talking about and you don't have to go to the bottom to find that either, it exists all through football but sadly I think less and less fans in the Premier League, and more importantly Spurs, feel this way about football.

 

[shelfboy68]

I really dont think we should be too concerned about Arsenal as they are out of Our league and have been for some years now. Yes we have the occasional result but thats it for us.
Since 91 we are no longer the big club we once were sadly while they have only had 2/3 managers since then we have had 23 probably, and looking at them now they might only need a couple of players to push chelsea we on the other hand are playing in a different park.
Still Im proud to be a spurs fan even though their trophy haul is way out of sight for us to even worry about.

 

[npearl4spurs]

Miracles are not allowed under FFP!

Kindly would like to disagree with this or else none of us should be watching unless we love being the best of the rest forever. Just because miracles are rare don't mean they never occur.

We love watching Spurs to see the miracle CL qualification or the great cup run, and we will get there again - but it has to be the right mix of youth development in skills and experience and signing the right mix of transfers. The great thing for us is that we are primed to be able to maximize our chances of making that happen now because 1) we have the youngest first team squad that shows a ton of promise, 2) we have an all-world academy and training center to attract the best youth talents, 3) we have PL money and recognition to always have the capability to make astute signings, and 4) we are looking to increase that income and recognition with the building of our new stadium.

The great thing about sports is it is settled on the pitch/field/court, and even though we are fans of the constant let-down that is Tottenham Hotspur, there is always that damn hope that everything will finally go right for us and we will make the jump from Europa League to Champions League and the jump from occasional deep runs in the domestic cups to consistent quarter-final runs (and from there, anything can happen with the draw and the performance on match day).

tl;dr: f**k it, I'm gonna be a die-hard Spurs fan because the triumphs taste so sweet and I'm a glutton for the punishing downfalls.

 

[SteveH]

Kindly would like to disagree with this or else none of us should be watching unless we love being the best of the rest forever. Just because miracles are rare don't mean they never occur.

We love watching Spurs to see the miracle CL qualification or the great cup run, and we will get there again - but it has to be the right mix of youth development in skills and experience and signing the right mix of transfers. The great thing for us is that we are primed to be able to maximize our chances of making that happen now because 1) we have the youngest first team squad that shows a ton of promise, 2) we have an all-world academy and training center to attract the best youth talents, 3) we have PL money and recognition to always have the capability to make astute signings, and 4) we are looking to increase that income and recognition with the building of our new stadium.

The great thing about sports is it is settled on the pitch/field/court, and even though we are fans of the constant let-down that is Tottenham Hotspur, there is always that damn hope that everything will finally go right for us and we will make the jump from Europa League to Champions League and the jump from occasional deep runs in the domestic cups to consistent quarter-final runs (and from there, anything can happen with the draw and the performance on match day).

tl;dr: f**k it, I'm gonna be a die-hard Spurs fan because the triumphs taste so sweet and I'm a glutton for the punishing downfalls.

Miracles = a Roman Abramovich in my reference