Mario Götze signs for Dortmund

iddebu52 · Jul 12, 2016

Indacupfortottenham said:
I think we are stacked with am's, don't get it unless some are on their way out.
Chadli, Son, Njie possibly, Onomah, Pritchard loans maybe...
Also think any one brought in will have some job unearthing Eriksen, Alli and Lamela from the starting line up!

It is always quality to quantity.

archiewasking · Jul 12, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
Are we really now that fucking lazy that we are now referring to players by their initials and shirt number?

Seriously?

What's that all about?

Sorry A&C69 xxx

tiger666 · Jul 12, 2016

Ravabelly said:
The 'o' has an umlaut over it, which has the effect of making the 'o' sound like 'oe'

Like Mezut Oezil then.

Bus-Conductor · Jul 12, 2016

Trix said:
The reason clubs like us rarely sign world class players in their peak is because they always have a better option.

That is just not true. There is not always a better option than that of a proven world class player, the reason we haven't signed very many world class players, proven and in their prime is purely financial.

We are (or have been) a club run on a financially self sustainable model, with limited financial parameters and that has dictated our transfer policy. We primarily have to seek value.

Why would we buy Wanyama when Gundogan was available ? Why would we chase Gotze or Wijnaldum and not buy Mykhitaryan (manU don't even have CL football).

Trix said:
Just look at West ham now for proof. They are sat where we have been for the last few years, just outside the CL places as far as points are concerned. They are trying to throw mega money at any top class Striker they can think of, and where is it getting them? Nowhere, rejection after rejection.

I don't understand what this has to do with the point @scat1620 or I was making, that over the last few years we haven't been a club that can/will pay above sustainable amounts in wages (or fees) (i.e. the market value for proven WC players set by those that generally trade in them).

Trix said:
Reputation(of club and manager) and current standing in the game still takes precedent over £££ to any ambitious player in his prime.

That's a bit of a disingenuous argument Trix, because in most cases the best managers are invariably at the best (regular CL playing) clubs and those clubs are the ones that pay - by a considerable margin - the biggest wages. Very few established, proven, highly sought after players who have a genuine choice between an uber regular CL club and a mid/europa team offering them 50% the salary choose that option, and there are many more who make stupid career decisions for exactly the opposite reasons you said.

Trix said:
Some of you will always blame the wage budget/levy for our inability to sign world class talent, but the fact is until now money has been far from the only obstacle. Now I believe we are in a position to go for this type, the manager doesn't really want them, and has said so numerous times. He prefers young hungry malleabe players he can mold to his way of playing.

I think @Archibald&Crooks would be turning in his peep hole lederhosen if he thought I was criticising Levy for an inability to sign world class talent. Maybe @scat1620 was (I can't remember exactly what he even said now) but I completely understand why we do the business we do, work the business model we work. I was merely pointing out that there is a (very volatile) market value, and we as business, for understandable reasons, have struggled to compete for players that command it.

And personally I still don't think we are there yet. It will take a few seasons of regular increased income for us truly start competing with even Liverpool or Arsenal, let alone ManC, Chelsea and ManU on general wage outlay.

bubble07 · Jul 12, 2016

EZSpur said:
That's actually a really good point - a la VDV!
I guess his wages will still be high though and who do we shift/bench to make way for him?
One major plus point is that he knows the pressing game inside-out from his Dortmund days.
Ok, i'm onboard - lets get him in!

We need to stop thinking who does he replace etc. We should not have any automatic first choice players. Midfield is also the most demanded area and the area where suspensions are more common. We will be looking at playing 60 games next season

Having Alli Eriksen Lamela Gotze Son competing for 3 positions is what we need and what we can realistically happen without ruining squad harmony. We have to assume all 5 will not be available all the time so that makes it 4 into 3 which gives us a good alternative off the bench

Trix · Jul 12, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
That is just not true. There is not always a better option than that of a proven world class player, the reason we haven't signed very many world class players, proven and in their prime is purely financial.

We are (or have been) a club run on a financially self sustainable model, with limited financial parameters and that has dictated our transfer policy. We primarily have to seek value.

Why would we buy Wanyama when Gundogan was available ? Why would we chase Gotze or Wijnaldum and not buy Mykhitaryan (manU don't even have CL football).

Are we chasing Gotze or Wijnaldum?

I don't understand what this has to do with the point @scat1620 or I was making, that over the last few years we haven't been a club that can/will pay above sustainable amounts in wages (or fees) (i.e. the market value for proven WC players set by those that generally trade in them).

That's a bit of a disingenuous argument Trix, because in most cases the best managers are invariably at the best (regular CL playing) clubs and those clubs are the ones that pay - by a considerable margin - the biggest wages. Very few established, proven, highly sought after players who have a genuine choice between an uber regular CL club and a mid/europa team offering them 50% the salary choose that option, and there are many more who make stupid career decisions for exactly the opposite reasons you said.

I think @Archibald&Crooks would be turning in his peep hole lederhosen if he thought I was criticising Levy for an inability to sign world class talent. Maybe @scat1620 was (I can't remember exactly what he even said now) but I completely understand why we do the business we do, work the business model we work. I was merely pointing out that there is a (very volatile) market value, and we as business, for understandable reasons, have struggled to compete for players that command it.

And personally I still don't think we are there yet. It will take a few seasons of regular increased income for us truly start competing with even Liverpool or Arsenal, let alone ManC, Chelsea and ManU on general wage outlay.

I'm saying the players have better options than us, not the other way around. As I say West Ham are offering mega bucks in wages(an awful lot more than we do) and still can't get any takers, it's not all about the wages.

I think we will leave it at that.

Indacupfortottenham · Jul 12, 2016

kaz Hirai said:
do you think that bunch can adequately push lamella and eriksen for a starting spot, or be a worthy replacement when we need someone to play in the prem away to Liverpool because we have a big CL game on the Tuesday?

I think Son can, Njie, Pritchard and Onomah maybe. Also think Kane will play as a 10 more next season.

Bus-Conductor · Jul 12, 2016

ryantegan said:
He will follow suit like DA19 HK10 and JV5

Has 5tonghen signed a new deal ?

Bus-Conductor · Jul 12, 2016

Trix said:
I'm saying the players have better options than us, not the other way around. As I say West Ham are offering mega bucks in wages(an awful lot more than we do) and still can't get any takers, it's not all about the wages.

I think we will leave it at that.

Sorry Trix, just re-read what you said. I completely owe you an apology. I thought you had said "there" (meaning a better option for us) not "they" (meaning better option for the player). I must admit I was surprised at what I thought you had said.

Ignore all the stuff that related to that.

West Ham have never had a "total" wage budget that matches ours. I don't know whether they are getting close to it now, but would seriously doubt it, I would imagine Payet is their only serious earner right now on 125k, I doubt they have anyone else within 40k of that and most wouldn't be within 60k of it.

As I said elsewhere, I think we probably could do the Gotze deal if he was happy to stay around the reported 120k he's on now give or take, but I still don't think we can fill our squad with more than one or two 100k+ players, do you ?

Jospur · Jul 12, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Sorry Trix, just re-read what you said. I completely owe you an apology. I thought you had said "there" (meaning a better option for us) not "they" (meaning better option for the player). I must admit I was surprised at what I thought you had said.

Ignore all the stuff that related to that.

West Ham have never had a "total" wage budget that matches ours. I don't know whether they are getting close to it now, but would seriously doubt it, I would imagine Payet is their only serious earner right now on 125k, I doubt they have anyone else within 40k of that and most wouldn't be within 60k of it.

As I said elsewhere, I think we probably could do the Gotze deal if he was happy to stay around the reported 120k he's on now give or take, but I still don't think we can fill our squad with more than one or two 100k+ players, do you ?

I'm usually on the bandwagon for adding quality to the team but in the case of Gotze I'm not so sure. Especially if his salary is such that it might make some of our 'mainstays' dissatisfied. And if Liverpool are out of it (as appears to be the case) maybe we should be asking why - especially as they apparently have cash to spend and a coach who has worked with the player in the past. Maybe someone like Wijnaldum is the better bet.

Trix · Jul 12, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Sorry Trix, just re-read what you said. I completely owe you an apology. I thought you had said "there" (meaning a better option for us) not "they" (meaning better option for the player). I must admit I was surprised at what I thought you had said.

Ignore all the stuff that related to that.

West Ham have never had a "total" wage budget that matches ours. I don't know whether they are getting close to it now, but would seriously doubt it, I would imagine Payet is their only serious earner right now on 125k, I doubt they have anyone else within 40k of that and most wouldn't be within 60k of it.

As I said elsewhere, I think we probably could do the Gotze deal if he was happy to stay around the reported 120k he's on now give or take, but I still don't think we can fill our squad with more than one or two 100k+ players, do you ?

No worries.

I have no idea what our wage structure is now, although I know it increased substantially the last time we got CL. Nearly all the players have CL clauses written into their contracts. I doubt Gotze will happen regardless of the wages tbh, and think this one may well have just been a general enquiry to see if there was a bargain to be had. Not sure his non footballing persona fits the Poch requirements in all honesty. I'd say we have other targets that are of a higher priority personally.

spursfan77 · Jul 12, 2016

I might have missed it but is there a chance that ancelotti might want to keep him at Munich or is he definitely on the way out. I just want to rule out that this is some sort of agent games to get him a new contract at Bayern Munich.

LexingtonSpurs · Jul 12, 2016

Just throwing this out there - but if Goetz were only interested in big wages, he could remain at Bayern.

I still think this comes down to Goetz wanting to prove that he can still be an elite player, and he needs playing time and a fresh start to prove that. Dortmund can offer him money, but not a fresh start. In England, Spurs are the best fit for him. Can't see him in Manchester for either club, Liverpool have moved on Mane, Arsenal are full of AMs and seem unlikely to make a move. That realistically leaves Chelsea and us. Not sure he is a good fit at Chelsea - if they go to a 5-3-2 with Conte.

Outside of England, I doubt the Spanish squads will take Bayern rejects - so maybe a club in Italy, or PSG.

ryantegan · Jul 12, 2016

Archibald&Crooks said:
Fibber

I couldnt even get the numbers right

tiger666 · Jul 12, 2016

LexingtonSpurs said:
Just throwing this out there - but if Goetz were only interested in big wages, he could remain at Bayern.

Not without a contract he can't.

yankspurs · Jul 12, 2016

LexingtonSpurs said:
Just throwing this out there - but if Goetz were only interested in big wages, he could remain at Bayern.

I still think this comes down to Goetz wanting to prove that he can still be an elite player, and he needs playing time and a fresh start to prove that. Dortmund can offer him money, but not a fresh start. In England, Spurs are the best fit for him. Can't see him in Manchester for either club, Liverpool have moved on Sane, Arsenal are full of AMs and seem unlikely to make a move. That realistically leaves Chelsea and us. Not sure he is a good fit at Chelsea - if they go to a 5-3-2 with Conte.

Outside of England, I doubt the Spanish squads will take Bayern rejects - so maybe a club in Italy, or PSG.

Liverpool bought Mane, mate. City are trying for Sane.

Deleted member 27995 · Jul 12, 2016

yankspurs said:
Liverpool bought Mane, mate. City are trying for Sane.

Which leads us onto - is there another player with A, N an E ending their name we could aim for?!

Ossie85 · Jul 12, 2016

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg said:
Which leads us onto - is there another player with A, N an E ending their name we could aim for?!

We don't need. We already have Kane :LOL:

easley91 · Jul 12, 2016

Ossie85 said:
We don't need. We already have Kane

And play at the Lane :cautious:

ryantegan · Jul 12, 2016

easley91 said:
And play at the Lane

And the man up the CRANE

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