No Dembele No Tottenham

Luka Van der Bale · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
He is so much not what Modric is. Modric saw and moved the ball quickly. Dembele is better defensively than Modric but is light years away from him in terms of seeing a pass and moving the ball.

I don't think anyone could disagree with you there. But Modric is the best CM in the world right now, and the best seen at Spurs in decades. Harsh to use that as a slight on Dembele. Let's be honest though - you don't really believe we'd be better off without Dembele than with over the course of a season.

dontsalebale · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
One of my very favourite hackneyed clichés is "you have to earn the right to play" so I'm with you very much in spirit, but you do that by coaching and a collective ethos, by making sure every player knows what they are doing out of possession, it shouldn't require two holding midfielders to cover everyone's arses because your can't coach or won't pick players who facilitate that.

I like Dembele, he has some very good qualities, but he is not the messiah everyone claims him to be, he is not the pivotal influence on our football - if he is there's something drastically wrong because his best qualities are not harmonious with much what Pochettino says is his philosophy, not in CM anyway and certainly not in tandem with Dier.

IMO, our very best football was actually played with Dembele as an AM because when he was played there we had the most aggressive front four in the PL by a factor of about 30%.

Maybe if we are now moving toward a 433 there is a place for him in the CM, even in a CM2 there is a place for him, but ideally I'd have Wanyama doing the "earning the right" and someone who sees and moves the ball with a bit more vim doing the "playing".

He is the liam Neeson of footballers he has a very particular skill set. He is not a deep lying midfield player. He controls tempo and possession, by being difficult to knock off the ball and draws players to him. This opens up acres of space for his team mates. He has the same mercurial quality as Modric and Berby that players shy away from engaging him directly and this gives him that rare commodity time. This is the true measure of a quality footballer.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 27, 2016

danielneeds said:
The problem last season was that when Mason came in for him he was desperately short of confidence and form. So it wasn't all about the absence of Mousa, but a player in the centre of the park seriously out of form.

I think it's ludicrous that Mason is getting the blame for what happened at the end of last season. People seem to be ignoring the fact that the rot started 4 games out and Dier and Dembele (not to mention Alli) were pivotally culpable in the first two of those games (WBA and Chelsea) and the whole team in general just was not at it the next two, including Dier.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 27, 2016

dontsalebale said:
He is the liam Neeson of footballers

That's harsh, even I rate him more than that.

dontsalebale said:
He is the liam Neeson of footballers he has a very particular skill set. He is not a deep lying midfield player. He controls tempo and possession, by being difficult to knock off the ball and draws players to him. This opens up acres of space for his team mates. He has the same mercurial quality as Modric and Berby that players shy away from engaging him directly and this gives him that rare commodity time. This is the true measure of a quality footballer.

I think there's a lot of legend making in your own mind there. You're comparing a player who's had one decent season out of what 3 or 4 years ? He may control tempo, but the tempo he invariably sets is a slow release, risk averse one. He does not have anything like the "mercurial" quality of Modric.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 27, 2016

Luka Van der Bale said:
I don't think anyone could disagree with you there. But Modric is the best CM in the world right now, and the best seen at Spurs in decades. Harsh to use that as a slight on Dembele. Let's be honest though - you don't really believe we'd be better off without Dembele than with over the course of a season.

Depends on the balance and whether Poch has the team working properly as a group. I certainly don't think he's the essential ingredient that others do in our midfield.

dontsalebale · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
That's harsh, even I rate him more than that.

I think there's a lot of legend making in your own mind there. You're comparing a player who's had one decent season out of what 3 or 4 years ? He may control tempo, but the tempo he invariably sets is a slow release, risk averse one. He does not have anything like the "mercurial" quality of Modric.

BC you need to judge him on the influence Dembers had on the team and the system that took place last season. Harking back to previous seasons with different personnel and tactics is a fruitless argument. He hardly ever gets dispossessed that is his major strength it is up to his teamates to do something with the time he has given them by taking opposition players out of the game. Their is a reason he was rated as the best midfielder in Europe last season.

HildoSpur · Sep 27, 2016

dontsalebale said:
He is the liam Neeson of footballers he has a very particular skill set. He is not a deep lying midfield player. He controls tempo and possession, by being difficult to knock off the ball and draws players to him. This opens up acres of space for his team mates. He has the same mercurial quality as Modric and Berby that players shy away from engaging him directly and this gives him that rare commodity time. This is the true measure of a quality footballer.

Careful now, don't be talking in unflattering terms about our Liam.

dontsalebale · Sep 27, 2016

HildoSpur said:
Careful now, don't be talking in unflattering terms about our Liam.

Liam is a Ledge dont get the unflattering reference

HildoSpur · Sep 27, 2016

dontsalebale said:
Liam is a Ledge dont get the unflattering reference

Well in that case you are a very fortunate person indeed because if you had, I would find you and I would kill you.

dontsalebale · Sep 27, 2016

HildoSpur said:
Well in that case you are a very fortunate person indeed because if you had, I would find you and I would kill you.

Yikes

Luka Van der Bale · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
I think it's ludicrous that Mason is getting the blame for what happened at the end of last season. People seem to be ignoring the fact that the rot started 4 games out and Dier and Dembele (not to mention Alli) were pivotally culpable in the first two of those games (WBA and Chelsea) and the whole team in general just was not at it the next two, including Dier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36069306

Dembele man of the match vs WBA.

The collapse vs Chelsea can happen any team; they have that quality.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 27, 2016

THFCSPURS19 said:
What on earth makes you say that?

Because Dembele in central midfield with the likes of Dier is not a central midfield that moves the ball with alacrity, fluidity, tempo or incision and they are qualities that Pochettino has said his system values.

THFCSPURS19 · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Because Dembele in central midfield with the likes of Dier is not a central midfield that moves the ball with alacrity, fluidity, tempo or incision and they are qualities that Pochettino has said his system values.

Yet Pochettino has said how vital Dembele is.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 27, 2016

Luka Van der Bale said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36069306

Dembele man of the match vs WBA.

The collapse vs Chelsea can happen any team; they have that quality.

Ok, I also looked back to see what my views were of the WB game and Dembele was decent, but the fact remains the that Mason was unfairly scapegoated for what was a collective failing, and Dier in particular was awful for most of those games but seemed to escape blame.

The Chelsea game was embarrassing and Dembele was definitely complicit in that inglorious clusterfuck.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 27, 2016

THFCSPURS19 said:
Yet Pochettino has said how vital Dembele is.

As much ad I am content with him, I'm a long way from agreeing with everything Pochettino says and does or the descrepancy between those two facets at times.

Like dropping Dembele and Lamela for Townsend and Chadli the previous season.

talkshowhost86 · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Because Dembele in central midfield with the likes of Dier is not a central midfield that moves the ball with alacrity, fluidity, tempo or incision and they are qualities that Pochettino has said his system values.

I don't think he's ever played with that sort of player in midfield in England to be fair.

I'm sure it's what every manager in the country wants, but there are not many of those players around.

Bus-Conductor · Sep 27, 2016

talkshowhost86 said:
I don't think he's ever played with that sort of player in midfield in England to be fair.

I'm sure it's what every manager in the country wants, but there are not many of those players around.

Schneiderlin wasn't bad

king26 · Sep 27, 2016

no player is bigger than the club and dembele let us down with an act of stupidity for me he owes spurs big time

talkshowhost86 · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
Schneiderlin wasn't bad

I saw him as more like Dier is now. A better passer of the ball, but certainly not the twinkle-toed passing midfielder that we seem to be craving here.

tooey · Sep 27, 2016

Bus-Conductor said:
That's harsh, even I rate him more than that.

I think there's a lot of legend making in your own mind there. You're comparing a player who's had one decent season out of what 3 or 4 years ? He may control tempo, but the tempo he invariably sets is a slow release, risk averse one. He does not have anything like the "mercurial" quality of Modric.

How on earth you pick the bones out of a player like Dembele yet deflect any blame away from players like Mason baffles me, such a hipster.

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