New Stadium Details And Discussions

Hengy1 · Dec 3, 2016

fridgemagnet said:
Won't they be sort of fucked by elements by the time we actually move in?

I'd have thought they'd have been one of the last exterior fixtures fitted TBH but then again i'm not a Doctor so could be talking absolute codshite again...

Thanks for the pic though

Must be just to give potential buyers or sponsors a perspective of the ground early doors i imagine

kmk · Dec 3, 2016

fridgemagnet said:
Won't they be sort of fucked by elements by the time we actually move in?

I'd have thought they'd have been one of the last exterior fixtures fitted TBH but then again i'm not a Doctor so could be talking absolute codshite again...

Thanks for the pic though

Someone on SSC said that seats from a few different suppliers are bring trialled before the order goes in.

fridgemagnet · Dec 3, 2016

kmk said:
Someone on SSC said that seats from a few different suppliers are bring trialled before the order goes in.

Ahhh i see thanks (y)

worcestersauce · Dec 4, 2016

Good to see the work was still going on yesterday afternoon, some silly old football match ain't gonna stop Bob the builder and his Crane!

UpTownSpur · Dec 4, 2016

worcestersauce said:
Good to see the work was still going on yesterday afternoon, some silly old football match ain't gonna stop Bob the builder and his Crane!

muppetman · Dec 4, 2016

UpTownSpur said:

Wow!

djw1973 · Dec 4, 2016

The stadium us going to fecking huge! I live abroad so it was my first chance to see the new build. Exciting times and is really progressing quickly. If it wasn't for the fact that we are having to play at home we would be a third of the way there by now.

davidmatzdorf · Dec 5, 2016

djw1973 said:
If it wasn't for the fact that we are having to play at home we would be s third of the way there by now.

No chance. Building the structure is the quick, dramatic bit. Once the bulk of it is up, there's at least another year's work to finish it.

Same with any large building. The substructure/foundations take ages. Then the main structure goes up in a few months and everyone says "wow, it's nearly finished". Then it takes about another 12-18 months to install services and fit everything out.

Lilbaz · Dec 5, 2016

davidmatzdorf said:
No chance. Building the structure is the quick, dramatic bit. Once the bulk of it is up, there's at least another year's work to finish it.

Same with any large building. The substructure/foundations take ages. Then the main structure goes up in a few months and everyone says "wow, it's nearly finished". Then it takes about another 12-18 months to install services and fit everything out.

How long have we been building? How long till we move in?

If we are not a third of the way there we better get our arses in gear.

davidmatzdorf · Dec 5, 2016

Lilbaz said:
How long have we been building? How long till we move in?

If we are not a third of the way there we better get our arses in gear.

Interesting thought. You can measure progress by time or by value of work completed. But I suspect that @djw1973 was measuring it by volume of building, which is usually deceptive, hence my comment.

I tried unsuccessfully to find a definitive contractual "start on site" date, but I'm not sure there was one, because the "construction management" procurement means that there is no single, formal building contract. Instead, there is a management agreement with Mace and a plethora of subcontracts administered and coordinated by Mace.

Mace's appointment was publicised on 23 Nov 2015, but they didn't start running the site immediately. There were months of set-up, tendering and contract preparation to do first. On the other hand, I think preparatory works, including the sheet-piling prior to the excavation, had already been carried out by the time they were appointed.

The target completion date is obviously summer 2018, to ensure that we can play Premiership matches there in late August or early September. I'd guess that works have been underway in earnest for about 8-9 months now. Completion in August 2018 is 20-21 months away, so that would put us 30% of the way into the build period. Don't take this as gospel, it's educated-guesswork.

As for progress measured by value, I only know about residential and residential/commercial mixed-tenure developments. In those, a large proportion of the money gets spent in the middle third, when work like roofing and first-fix services are being carried out. The substructure and main superstructure are perhaps 25%-30% of the cost (?) - and we're perhaps half-finished with the superstructure. A typical contract has a bell-curve of spending: starts slowly, goes like mad in the middle and then tails off. I don't know if a stadium has a similar pattern, but I would think so.

So probably not one third, but approaching that stage soon.

widmerpool · Dec 5, 2016

davidmatzdorf said:
Interesting thought. You can measure progress by time or by value of work completed. But I suspect that @djw1973 was measuring it by volume of building, which is usually deceptive, hence my comment.

I tried unsuccessfully to find a definitive contractual "start on site" date, but I'm not sure there was one, because the "construction management" procurement means that there is no single, formal building contract. Instead, there is a management agreement with Mace and a plethora of subcontracts administered and coordinated by Mace.

Mace's appointment was publicised on 23 Nov 2015, but they didn't start running the site immediately. There were months of set-up, tendering and contract preparation to do first. On the other hand, I think preparatory works, including the sheet-piling prior to the excavation, had already been carried out by the time they were appointed.

The target completion date is obviously summer 2018, to ensure that we can play Premiership matches there in late August or early September. I'd guess that works have been underway in earnest for about 8-9 months now. Completion in August 2018 is 20-21 months away, so that would put us 30% of the way into the build period. Don't take this as gospel, it's educated-guesswork.

As for progress measured by value, I only know about residential and residential/commercial mixed-tenure developments. In those, a large proportion of the money gets spent in the middle third, when work like roofing and first-fix services are being carried out. The substructure and main superstructure are perhaps 25%-30% of the cost (?) - and we're perhaps half-finished with the superstructure. A typical contract has a bell-curve of spending: starts slowly, goes like mad in the middle and then tails off. I don't know if a stadium has a similar pattern, but I would think so.

So probably not one third, but approaching that stage soon.

All interesting. Massive demolition projects half-way through build are presumably a) very rare and b) mean that the progress to completion is going to be very tricky to assess from the outside, yes?

davidmatzdorf · Dec 5, 2016

widmerpool said:
All interesting. Massive demolition projects half-way through build are presumably a) very rare and b) mean that the progress to completion is going to be very tricky to assess from the outside, yes?

Another good point. The main implication of the mid-contract demolition is that all trades will have to attend twice. That will not only increase time, it will also increase cost and greatly complicate Mace's coordination. Of course, they will have already allowed for this in their programme and cost plan. But it's still a headache.

The ideal arrangement would be for the build to have progressed to the point where they can get the structure of the final third erected just in time for trades to work through from the northern two thirds to the southern third. But that would be unrealistic. Most trades will have to leave site and then return when the structure of the southern stand has been erected.

FibreOpticJesus · Dec 5, 2016

fridgemagnet said:
Won't they be sort of fucked by elements by the time we actually move in?

Probably a sample set to get a feel for colour, positioning, style etc.

Shame they are not trying out standing style seats!

beats1 · Dec 6, 2016

widmerpool said:
All interesting. Massive demolition projects half-way through build are presumably a) very rare and b) mean that the progress to completion is going to be very tricky to assess from the outside, yes?

If you look at the San Mames stadium you will see they did what we were trying to achieve before we included the retracting pitch and had to move out

They left their old stadium in June and entered their new partially built stadium in September worth noting that it took another 2 years to finish, partially because whilst the exterior was built the interior fit out took a while whilst the stadium was in use

Here is what their stadium looked like in June 2013

A week later when demolition just started

July 2013

Mid July 2013

August 2013

Mid August the old stadium was gone but this is only non copyright image I could find which was at the end of august. The pitch was installed a week earlier

September 9th

September 18th First Home Match

So unless we find some ancient king or some shit under one of the stands it shouldn't take too long

SEANSPURS1975 · Dec 6, 2016

This picture was posted on twitter. Should be looking like this at the end of this season...

DanielCHillier · Dec 6, 2016

SEANSPURS1975 said:
View attachment 27321 This picture was posted on twitter. Should be looking like this at the end of this season...

Won't there be a core built in the corner that's been demolished as well.

L-man · Dec 6, 2016

DanielCHillier said:
Won't there be a core built in the corner that's been demolished as well.

The guy that made this made it ages ago whilst the corner was still going down and wasn't sure how to complete the model i.e. with the north stand support or with the core instead

Roospur · Dec 6, 2016

Was with a QS last week who knows the ductwork contractors on site, Imperial. He said they were very behind schedule, whether he meant the ductwork or the job as a whole he wasn't clear on. 3-4 weeks behind so far. Also mentioned that Mace have been murder to work with and Spurs aren't happy with them.
I'm away with him this weekend, so will try to get some better information.

davidmatzdorf · Dec 6, 2016

Roospur said:
Was with a QS last week who knows the ductwork contractors on site, Imperial. He said they were very behind schedule, whether he meant the ductwork or the job as a whole he wasn't clear on. 3-4 weeks behind so far. Also mentioned that Mace have been murder to work with and Spurs aren't happy with them.
I'm away with him this weekend, so will try to get some better information.

This kind of moaning/gossip arises on every building site. I'm not saying it's false, just that the rumour mill is not to be trusted. Subcontractors moan about construction managers. It's what they do.

THFCSPURS19 · Dec 6, 2016

To those that moan about the hospitality at the new stadium, please look at this and see why the fans really aren't being screwed over. There's over 6 times the number of Spurs fans compared to those in hospitality seats.

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