Rochdale vs Tottenham Hotspur - Match Thread

Streetspur77 · Feb 18, 2018

Phomesy said:
And don't forget it was Sissoko's fault really in the first place. As was their equaliser; and Brexit and Trump's election

#SissokoMeansSissoko #NotMySissoko

Sir Henry · Feb 18, 2018

Krule said:
Does make you wonder about best policy...come out blazing with all the big guns right from the start...go two or three up and then bring them off and put the rest of the squad out to hold what we have or keep them all on the bench in case they are needed to rescue the situation and hope the team is good enough to manage a win...

You can only make 3 subs dude

theShiznit · Feb 18, 2018

Phomesy said:
We are talking about this game. Where his control was fine - better, certainly, than Son's; Rose's; Winks'; Llorente's; Wanyama's; and even, God help us; Toby's!

This is what I'm talking about. On this game alone, Sissoko was perfectly decent - I called for him to be subbed for Lamela at half time just because I prefer Lamela and thought we needed him, but it wasn't a huge surprise Poch kept Sissoko on because Sissoko was playing perfectly fine in that low expectation Sissoko way.

And then he got the assist for the goal and made a lot of people look like fuckwits. They don't like looking like fuckwits so they pretend it was the only good thing he did in the game (it wasn't) and that he was shit otherwise (he wasn't).

It's embarrassing watching/reading people pretend an alternate reality. We all agree Sissoko isn't what we hoped or expected. That doesn't mean we have to literally make up fantasies about real shit that just happened. It's just silly.

Winks turned on several occasions when the ball was played into him with an opponent on him and controlled and spun away from the challenges (for one was on the end of a reckless lunge)
You must see (even in this game) Sissoko is just not capable of this play, he will control it (eventually

) and pass it backwards the same thing winks has been taking some stick for (bet they wish he'd done that today

)

He is more effective facing the play as stated but is still extremely limited. Even in his best games.

Sir Henry · Feb 18, 2018

I think I'm missing something here. First up, did we lose? Could be mistaken but don't think we did. Second, we played away to a shit side playing their cup final with fuck all to lose. We're you expecting to stroll it?

Phomesy · Feb 18, 2018

theShiznit said:
Winks turned on several occasions when the ball was played into him with an opponent on him and controlled and spun away from the challenges (for one was on the end of a reckless lunge)
You must see (even in this game) Sissoko is just not capable of this play, he will control it (eventually ) and pass it backwards the same thing winks has been taking some stick for (bet they wish he'd done that today )

He is more effective facing the play as stated but is still extremely limited. Even in his best games.

Winks is infinitely more talented than Sissoko. Can't imagine who would dispute this - I certainly have not.

I repeat - you made a claim about Sissoko's performance in this game that simply does not match reality. He was fine. In fact he was good first half and got the assist second half without any horrible errors.

So you need to think about why you made up in your head this fantasy that the only good thing he did in this game was the assist and everything else was awful and "needs excusing".

You're not the only one who does this and not the worst. I just find it bizarre and slightly cringeworthy.

theShiznit · Feb 18, 2018

heelspurs said:
Nope, it doesn't. Two wrongs don't make a right however. Dembele has shown time and time again that he can be trusted with the ball in those positions. He has credit in the bank just like when Harry misses a sitter. And when it does happen he usually fouls the player to prevent the break. With a young player you are earning that trust. Do you feel comfortable when Dier receives the ball deep to Liverpool's press? Nope, you don't do you? Because he has shown time and again that he cannot be trusted with it.

Do you think Poch's trust in Winks was dented by that play? I bet you it was. Remember now, he was the first one subbed. There is a time and place to take risks and other occasions to be 100% sure. He failed that test today. I can't remotely understand how people are defending it.

I can't see anyone defending that moment.

Just most of us are not willing to sell the player because of it. Or overlook everything else we feel he's bought to the team (performances that have bought England recognition and comparisons with greats of the game) just because he doesn't have "much credit in the bank"

Streetspur77 · Feb 18, 2018

heelspurs said:
For a midfielder in that position it is. Do you wanna know why? I will give you 2 guesses as to the answer. Take your time.

Because it made us concede a goal but still not unforgivable, in fact, I've already "forgiven" him

To me it's just a dust yourself down move on kind of thing, not a big deal

TwanYid · Feb 18, 2018

SpursD22 said:
KWP -> Rose, Trippier
Anyone -> Sissoko
Janssen, Soldado, Pavlyuchenko, Adebayor, Coulthirst, Reo Griffiths, Kazaiah Sterling -> Llorente

You forgot Frazier Campbell.

Krule · Feb 18, 2018

Sir Henry said:
You can only make 3 subs dude

I appreciate that my mate but why not start with Kane, Lamela and Alli ?... tell them once we are two goals up they'll be substituted for a well earned rest ?....nice incentive. (y)

heelspurs · Feb 18, 2018

theShiznit said:
I can't see anyone defending that moment.

Just most of us are not willing to sell the player because of it. Or overlook everything else we feel he's bought to the team (performances that have bought England recognition and comparisons with greats of the game) just because he doesn't have "much credit in the bank"

No one made this point about selling him. So your not defending that moment just his play? His play included that moment.

Streetspur77 said:
Because it made us concede a goal but still not unforgivable, in fact, I've already "forgiven" him

To me it's just a dust yourself down move on kind of thing, not a big deal

How did you handle Bentaleb's moments? Do you just dust yourself off after Dier's moments? If not dealt with at some point they become ingrained in the player. Dier can't stop making silly short passes that put us in the shit. He did it at liverpool and he did it at Juve. Bentaleb is still doing it at Schalke.

This isn't the first time for Winks either but I excused the other times as there were extenuating circumstances, ie fatigue, etc. I'm thinking of the Palace game and the home RM game where he put us in the shit. But he was tired in RM game and possibly hurt in the Palace game. Today alters the context of those moments. I don't want him stoned or castrated etc but I will probably take a more critical view of his performances. But as you know I am fair and I really like Winks and want him to succeed. but he is going to have to knock that shit off.

Johnny J · Feb 18, 2018

dagraham said:
Another example of teams pressing us at the back and more importantly, pressing us as soon as the CM’s get the ball.

Fact is we can’t handle it, no matter who the opposition is and I would be very surprised if other teams don’t gradually pick up on this.

Obviously without Dembele and Eriksen on the field this impacts us even more as the likes of Sissoko, Wanyama and Dier are simply not comfortable with receiving the ball to feet and playing one touch football. When Dembele is on the pitch this is mitigated somewhat, but even against Newport the press of the opposition upset his rhythm.

We need to get wise to it and either anticipate the tactic or adapt mid game.

Perhaps, but then again does any team deal well with being relentlessly pressed? Aside from Barca ofc.

theShiznit · Feb 18, 2018

heelspurs said:
No one made this point about selling him. So your not defending that moment just his play? His play included that moment.

How did you handle Bentaleb's moments? Do you just dust yourself off after Dier's moments? If not dealt with at some point they become ingrained in the player. Dier can't stop making silly short passes that put us in the shit. He did it at liverpool and he did it at Juve. Bentaleb is still doing it at Schalke.

This isn't the first time for Winks either but I excused the other times as there were extenuating circumstances, ie fatigue, etc. I'm thinking of the Palace game and the home RM game where he put us in the shit. But he was tired in RM game and possibly hurt in the Palace game. Today alters the context of those moments. I don't want him stoned or castrated etc but I will probably take a more critical view of his performances. But as you know I am fair and I really like Winks and want him to succeed. but he is going to have to knock that shit off.

I just think he made a bad decision he chose to dribble away from a man that read his intention. Was it the only one made today no, was it the most costly? probably yes (although Toby's flick on ultimately cost us the win)

They're made in every match by every player. And here we have a young player whose confidence is low and who is lacking in match fitness. Yes it's an excuse but one I'm happy to give every time.

Sorry for me he's already forgiven too.

shelfmonkey · Feb 18, 2018

Damian99 said:
Toby deals with a basic ball into our box and we're winning the game, lacking fitness or not, that was pretty poor imo.

A lot of our players failed at the basics today.

Metalhead · Feb 18, 2018

Krule said:
I appreciate that my mate but why not start with Kane, Lamela and Alli ?... tell them once we are two goals up they'll be substituted for a well earned rest ?....nice incentive.

I would go for that all day long. Twice now we've ended up getting caught out. I can't honestly remember how changed we were for the away game at Newport but jiggling the team about obviously upsets the dynamic.

theShiznit · Feb 18, 2018

Johnny J said:
Perhaps, but then again does any team deal well with being relentlessly pressed? Aside from Barca ofc.

Pressing even the greatest ever teams on a bobbly pitch will lead to turnovers of the ball I don't care who you are.

I think the problem was when we saw the bobbles, sticking with passing it around the back was the wrong call, but is that down to the manager or the captain to change during the game?

Bulletspur · Feb 18, 2018

Archibald&Crooks said:
You can't just focus on individuals as poor as some of them undoubtably were. Yet again we send out a team that has the collective decision making nous of a bag of wingnuts, defenders who play the ball out to players running back toward our own goal at pace whilst under the press, who then lose the ball due to poor control or being put under pressure straightaway, if that's how we're going to play then of course we're going to struggle. There's no cohesion, no continuity and no fucking brains.

I'm left wondering at what exact fucking point will Pochettino realise that you can't just cobble any old team together and expect to win just because it's Newport/Rochdale or whoever. It's frustrating because it mirrored the Newport game in many ways. We'll probably get through to a Quarter Final but if Pochettino does this again then I really don't think we have a manager who's serious about winning this cup.

I disagree. That eleven would win 9 out of 10 times against Rochdale, it was just a bad day. Had this team beaten Rochdale by 2 or 3 nil which they are more than capable of doing, I am sure you would not now be questioning Poch's selection. We lost the game through sloppiness and bad or indifferent attitude, which was out of Poch's control. To question his integrity with regards to the importance of the game seems a bit Knee Jerky in my book, something you are always quick to criticise others of in the past.

Bulletspur · Feb 18, 2018

Yid-ol said:
It also wasnt our starting 11 really. All i was saying is Man U seemed to play more first team players and they got the result they needed.

Wanyama, Winks, Toby Rose, Son, Trippier and you can include Moura are all used as 1st teamers in games. There was nothing wrong with the team selected. To suggest other wise implies that we can not function without the likes Kane, Dele others which is rubbish.

Sweetsman · Feb 18, 2018

theShiznit said:
Winks turned on several occasions when the ball was played into him with an opponent on him and controlled and spun away from the challenges (for one was on the end of a reckless lunge)
You must see (even in this game) Sissoko is just not capable of this play, he will control it (eventually ) and pass it backwards the same thing winks has been taking some stick for (bet they wish he'd done that today )

He is more effective facing the play as stated but is still extremely limited. Even in his best games.

So, let me get this straight, your defence of Winks is based on denigrating Sissoko in a game he did what was asked of him? At this point, I would give you an answer that you'd get upset about, but you've been cut up quite surgically by @Phomesy. You now resemble the Black Knight from Monty Python.

Sweetsman · Feb 18, 2018

theShiznit said:
I just think he made a bad decision he chose to dribble away from a man that read his intention. Was it the only one made today no, was it the most costly? probably yes (although Toby's flick on ultimately cost us the win)

They're made in every match by every player. And here we have a young player whose confidence is low and who is lacking in match fitness. Yes it's an excuse but one I'm happy to give every time.

Sorry for me he's already forgiven too.

I think that if we get the usual brainless responses crucifying young, talented players, then we just may end up losing them. Ryan Mason was one such player, whose career has been cut short cruelly, so when we have rough diamonds let's just help them be shaped.

fletch82 · Feb 18, 2018

Rochdale played well
They deserve the replay
We could/should have played better if we wanted to avoid said replay
We didn't they did its' life

Fair play to Rochdale I say good for them (y)

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