The England World Cup Thread

riggi said:

@Monkey boy



Xx

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I don’t get it??

Monkey boy said:

Jesus wept some people really are a sensitive bunch aren’t they. Sorry in future I’ll stick to the party line of England were great and should return as heroes after over coming the mammoth task of beating Tunisia, Panama and Sweden.

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Did you even bother reading what I'd posted? I'm guessing not, seeing as you continued your screed without even seeming to understand the basis of it. The point you missed was that regardless of whether your points are accurate or not, the timing and manner in which you chose to convey them is not going to lead to a favourable response. What's disturbing is that instead of perhaps thinking about that, maybe realising that you were unlikely to receive any more favourable a response if you continued, you point-blank refused to wind your neck in and leave your argument for a less febrile time. No, you double-downed and went at it again. Why? What did you hope to gain? Is it that 'winning' this 'argument' is that important to you?

Monkey boy said:

That’s the problem with so much of both spurs and England, fans are happy to accept mediocrity and as long as we don’t embarrass ourselves then it’s been a successful season / tournament.

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Where is there any 'acceptance' of mediocrity? All along the line, fans and pundits alike have been talking about how favourable the draw was, how this represented an opportunity to get to the final. Isn't that acknowledging that England at this World Cup were a relatively weak team and so benefited from being drawn in the weaker side of the draw? The majority of what I've seen posted and what I've seen in the media was of the same theme.

Monkey boy said:

The trouble is, if this line if we were great keeps being thrown out there then how are we going to improve? We played 2 decent to good teams in the entire tournament.......... and lost both. Sorry if I’m not pushing for Southgate to be knighted.

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Monkey boy said:

My my you really are a bad loser aren’t you. Anyway as you were, England were absolutely fantastic throughout the tournament and every Englishman should be crying with pride when staring at their England tattoos in the mirror tonight. These guys are rightly taking their place amongst the elite of world football after they somehow managed to beat Panama 6 nil. Knight the lot of them we should.

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Really? Again, what did you hope to achieve with that first line? Once again, is 'winning' that important to you?

I concede that I've not read every pre- or post-semi-final post about England, but I can't recall any saying that England were a fantastic side or that we were the best team in the world.

What I did see was a lot of support for our team. Which is what every good fan is supposed to do: to back the team regardless of how strong we think they actually are. I lived through Spurs' 90s mediocrity, experienced the constant disappointment of seeing my club languishing, especially while the other lot kept winning things. But even when times were darkest, I'd still sing 'Tottenham are the greatest football team' at games. That's what being a supporter requires of me.

I'm from an Iranian family. So I also supported Iran at this World Cup. I'm sure there are people reading this who can bear witness to the vociferousness of my posts during Iran's games. Did I think Iran had any chance of winning the World Cup? Of course not. That didn't stop me from being happy at what they did achieve. I didn't spend the day after the last group game laying into the team or Quieroz because they failed to beat Portugal. I celebrated that we won a World Cup game for only the second time ever and for almost beating Portugal and almost qualifying.

That's what being a supporter is about. It's a duty. When you go to White Hart Lane do you tell those around you to stop singing songs because we haven't won anything? If you did, you'd get as short shrift as you've been getting on this forum.

There is no 'party line' regarding Southgate. He has achieved something that no manager since Bobby Robson has achieved. And I'm not talking about the semi-final. I'm talking about the unity and optimism and energy that he's brought to this England team. Regardless of how we performed in Russia, that is worthy of supreme praise given the apathy that ran rampant in every England squad going back to Euro 2000. But you choose instead to focus on where we failed (assuming you 'support' England), and I have an inkling as to why that is:

I'd be willing to bet that you didn't rate Southgate when he was appointed and didn't believe that the squad he picked was a particularly good one. I'd also bet that England's progress angers you because you've been proven wrong by them doing better than you thought they would. So now you've been put in a position whereby the only way to prove yourself right to yourself is by belittling everything that Southgate and England have achieved, rather than acknowledging the progress made and giving credit to someone that you don't rate. It's more important to you that you be proven 'right' in your assessment of him and the squad. However, that backs you into a corner and the only way you feel able to tackle it is by being aggressive and 'controversial'.

Now, you're free to think as you please, but thinking that way doesn't do you any favours. Still, you're your own person and can do as you like. However, adding salt to the injury of others just to prove yourself right simply isn't decent.

So you have two choices: try and change how you make your point, demonstrating that you understand the pain and disappointment that others are feeling, and thus contribute to the conversation; or you can continue with your screed (and the insults). I wait in anticipation of seeing which option you choose to take...

riggi said:

@Monkey boy



Xx

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That's rather lovely.

rez9000 said:

Did you even bother reading what I'd posted? I'm guessing not, seeing as you continued your screed without even seeming to understand the basis of it. The point you missed was that regardless of whether your points are accurate or not, the timing and manner in which you chose to convey them is not going to lead to a favourable response. What's disturbing is that instead of perhaps thinking about that, maybe realising that you were unlikely to receive any more favourable a response if you continued, you point-blank refused to wind your neck in and leave your argument for a less febrile time. No, you double-downed and went at it again. Why? What did you hope to gain? Is it that 'winning' this 'argument' is that important to you?

Where is there any 'acceptance' of mediocrity? All along the line, fans and pundits alike have been talking about how favourable the draw was, how this represented an opportunity to get to the final. Isn't that acknowledging that England at this World Cup were a relatively weak team and so benefited from being drawn in the weaker side of the draw? The majority of what I've seen posted and what I've seen in the media was of the same theme.



Really? Again, what did you hope to achieve with that first line? Once again, is 'winning' that important to you?

I concede that I've not read every pre- or post-semi-final post about England, but I can't recall any saying that England were a fantastic side or that we were the best team in the world.

What I did see was a lot of support for our team. Which is what every good fan is supposed to do: to back the team regardless of how strong we think they actually are. I lived through Spurs' 90s mediocrity, experienced the constant disappointment of seeing my club languishing, especially while the other lot kept winning things. But even when times were darkest, I'd still sing 'Tottenham are the greatest football team' at games. That's what being a supporter requires of me.

I'm from an Iranian family. So I also supported Iran at this World Cup. I'm sure there are people reading this who can bear witness to the vociferousness of my posts during Iran's games. Did I think Iran had any chance of winning the World Cup? Of course not. That didn't stop me from being happy at what they did achieve. I didn't spend the day after the last group game laying into the team or Quieroz because they failed to beat Portugal. I celebrated that we won a World Cup game for only the second time ever and for almost beating Portugal and almost qualifying.

That's what being a supporter is about. It's a duty. When you go to White Hart Lane do you tell those around you to stop singing songs because we haven't won anything? If you did, you'd get as short shrift as you've been getting on this forum.

There is no 'party line' regarding Southgate. He has achieved something that no manager since Bobby Robson has achieved. And I'm not talking about the semi-final. I'm talking about the unity and optimism and energy that he's brought to this England team. Regardless of how we performed in Russia, that is worthy of supreme praise given the apathy that ran rampant in every England squad going back to Euro 2000. But you choose instead to focus on where we failed (assuming you 'support' England), and I have an inkling as to why that is:

I'd be willing to bet that you didn't rate Southgate when he was appointed and didn't believe that the squad he picked was a particularly good one. I'd also bet that England's progress angers you because you've been proven wrong by them doing better than you thought they would. So now you've been put in a position whereby the only way to prove yourself right to yourself is by belittling everything that Southgate and England have achieved, rather than acknowledging the progress made and giving credit to someone that you don't rate. It's more important to you that you be proven 'right' in your assessment of him and the squad. However, that backs you into a corner and the only way you feel able to tackle it is by being aggressive and 'controversial'.

Now, you're free to think as you please, but thinking that way doesn't do you any favours. Still, you're your own person and can do as you like. However, adding salt to the injury of others just to prove yourself right simply isn't decent.

So you have two choices: try and change how you make your point, demonstrating that you understand the pain and disappointment that others are feeling, and thus contribute to the conversation; or you can continue with your screed (and the insults). I wait in anticipation of seeing which option you choose to take...

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?

I said:

rez9000 said:

So you have two choices: try and change how you make your point, demonstrating that you understand the pain and disappointment that others are feeling, and thus contribute to the conversation; or you can continue with your screed (and the insults). I wait in anticipation of seeing which option you choose to take...

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You said:

Monkey boy said:

?

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Thank you for proving my point. Well done you.

riggi said:

@Monkey boy



Xx

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Gayyyyyyyyyyyy

rez9000 said:

I said:



You said:



Thank you for proving my point. Well done you.

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Bore off mate. You obviously can’t see my point of view and clearly I’ll never agree with yours. If you can’t be bothered to answer my questions then I can’t be arsed reading your questions either. Have a nice evening ?

Getting trolled on Eastenders now (I don’t watch it I just use it to fool the Mrs into thinking she has some control of the TV)
Anyway Mel just said they should have taken off Alli not sterling and that their are far too many tottenham players ?

Monkey boy said:

Bore off mate. You obviously can’t see my point of view and clearly I’ll never agree with yours. If you can’t be bothered to answer my questions then I can’t be arsed reading your questions either. Have a nice evening ?

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Questions? What questions? You haven't posed any. You've just been banging your keyboard like a warrior to try and prove that you have any knowledge of anything. Do us a favour, petal: go elsewhere.

steffan freund is such a legend. please see video, apologies, if already seen.

https://talksport.com/football/399119/graeme-souness-stinging-attack-gareth-southgate/amp/

spursfan1991 said:

steffan freund is such a legend. please see video, apologies, if already seen.

https://talksport.com/football/399119/graeme-souness-stinging-attack-gareth-southgate/amp/

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Love Steffan, proper legend.

spursfan1991 said:

steffan freund is such a legend. please see video, apologies, if already seen.

https://talksport.com/football/399119/graeme-souness-stinging-attack-gareth-southgate/amp/

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Watch the whole video on YouTube and you’ll see that Souness actually got it spot on with every point but unfortunately he’s quickly labelled a bitter Scottish see you next Tuesday and the rose tinted specs are put firmly back into position as nobody is allowed to dare criticise our brave fallen heroes.

Monkey boy said:

Watch the whole video on YouTube and you’ll see that Souness actually got it spot on with every point but unfortunately he’s quickly labelled a bitter Scottish see you next Tuesday and the rose tinted specs are put firmly back into position as nobody is allowed to dare criticise our brave fallen heroes.

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even in the 3 minute video, souness was bang on and i agree with his comments about tactics and lack of creativity. i just liked how he defended the spurs players saying that they play for a top side that consistently finish in top 4.

Souness has been one of the few to point out that Kane’s lack of attacking threat is down have extremely limited service from midfield. The guy didn’t get a shot off in anger all tournament, and spent most of his time in midfield, sacrificing his natural game for the good of the team.

Southgate simultaneously displayed his managerial prowess (in terms of how he brought the team together) and tactical naivety (limiting our two best attacking threats by asking them to perform differing roles; Young ahead of Rose; failing to react to Croatia’s midfield dominance by not bringing on another natural central midfielder to replace Lingaard/Dele).

I don`t want to be a dickhead or provoke. That`s not my intention. Don`t get me wrong. But I`m thinking about Englands lack of results and performance in football and in sports in general. If we compare England with Germany, France, Spain, and Italy, England should be quite comparable when it comes to population, the popularity of football in the country and your football league. England have the best or the second best (?) football league in the world. But, there`s an under-performance from the national team in general. (Though this tournament wasn`t that bad, off course..) But,in sports in general. In athletics it hasn`t been that bad. But, more or less it`s jamaicans and other blacks from former colonies jumping and running for England, isn`t it? In cycling there have been some ethnic english/british doing well. I`ll give you that. But in general sports, no. So, whats the reason? Is this a debate in England? I might sound like a foolish idiot, but I`m thinking about diet. Is british diet too unhealthy? Could that be a plausible explanation factor? I can`t think about another reason, even though it might sound silly. 1966 was the last time, and even worse, 1990 was the last time you managed to go to a semifinal. And since 1990 Premier League/old 1.divison has been one of the three best leagues in the world. And as I said, I don`t want to be a prick, I`m just lifting up some thoughts and questions here..

Monkey boy said:

Watch the whole video on YouTube and you’ll see that Souness actually got it spot on with every point but unfortunately he’s quickly labelled a bitter Scottish see you next Tuesday and the rose tinted specs are put firmly back into position as nobody is allowed to dare criticise our brave fallen heroes.

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Still spouting horse manure, eh? Can't face a proper argument though, can you, petal?

Martin Ledang said:

I don`t want to be a dickhead or provoke. That`s not my intention. Don`t get me wrong. But I`m thinking about Englands lack of results and performance in football and in sports in general. If we compare England with Germany, France, Spain, and Italy, England should be quite comparable when it comes to population, the popularity of football in the country and your football league. England have the best or the second best (?) football league in the world. But, there`s an under-performance from the national team in general. (Though this tournament wasn`t that bad, off course..) But,in sports in general. In athletics it hasn`t been that bad. But, more or less it`s jamaicans and other blacks from former colonies jumping and running for England, isn`t it? In cycling there have been some ethnic english/british doing well. I`ll give you that. But in general sports, no. So, whats the reason? Is this a debate in England? I might sound like a foolish idiot, but I`m thinking about diet. Is british diet too unhealthy? Could that be a plausible explanation factor? I can`t think about another reason, even though it might sound silly. 1966 was the last time, and even worse, 1990 was the last time you managed to go to a semifinal. And since 1990 Premier League/old 1.divison has been one of the three best leagues in the world. And as I said, I don`t want to be a prick, I`m just lifting up some thoughts and questions here..

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You might want to think about editing your post to remove the part about “ Jamaicans and other blacks “ . I’m sure you didn’t mean to say anything racist but it doesn’t look good...

Martin Ledang said:

I don`t want to be a dickhead

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You need to work on it.

Martin Ledang said:

I might sound like a foolish idiot

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You need to work on that too.

Martin Ledang said:

And as I said, I don`t want to be a prick

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Keep working on it.

Martin Ledang said:

But, more or less it`s jamaicans and other blacks from former colonies jumping and running for England, isn`t it?

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Black people whose parents, grandparents or great-grandparents came here as immigrants are as British as anyone else. It's really that simple.

dannythomas said:

You might want to think about editing your post to remove the part about “ Jamaicans and other blacks “ . I’m sure you didn’t mean to say anything racist but it doesn’t look good...

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You're right. I didn't mean to say anything racist. This hysteria around race and racism is huge in these days. I don't know how to formulate it in another adecvate way anyway. My experience is that it is political "overcorrect" white folks who have problems with all this. Not black people. So I'm not gonna remove anything, because my intention is not at all racist.

Martin Ledang said:

But, more or less it`s jamaicans and other blacks from former colonies jumping and running for England, isn`t it? In cycling there have been some ethnic english/british doing well. I`ll give you that. But in general sports, no. So, whats the reason? Is this a debate in England? I might sound like a foolish idiot, but I`m thinking about diet. Is british diet too unhealthy? Could that be a plausible explanation factor? I can`t think about another reason

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It's the diet mate. The colonials bought jerk chicken with them to the UK and if you look at obesity rates, they've actually increased now compared to before they came. Can't be any clearer than that.

Also, they must have developed a sweet tooth from the work we put them to on those sugar cane plantations. We now have a fucking sugar tax because it's all got so out of hand. We're in the middle of a sugar crisis. If you look at the date this sugar tax came into affect, it's after the mid-century influx from the colonies. Add that to the obesity rates and extrapolate from there: It's conclusive proof of why our football team is so shit.

All this, yet they only contribute to sports no one cares about. Dafuq watches athletics anyway. They make us fat then don't even bother putting in a shift for the football team. And when they do they're just preventing the ethnic Brits from doing well.

I might sound like a foolish idiot

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The one part of your post that makes sense.