The Mauricio Pochettino thread

dricha1 · Oct 24, 2018

Not saying Poch wouldnt leave us anytime soon, but I really don’t think he’d be any better at Madrid, he just wouldn’t be given time or be able to deal with the ego’s. He would do very well at PSG based on the standard of the Ligue 1, United have the mentality of winners so maybe that would rub-off on Poch?

Anyway, the grass isnt always greener, I still think Poch can win stuff with us, just hope he gets some backing and we move into the stadium with a team on the up, not the decline

dtxspurs · Oct 24, 2018

JCRD said:
Why do you think we have changed the way we played previously and by previously I mean the season before we went to Wembley? Has Poch basically tried to manage the team from not burning out? I dont get it. We used to play with much more impetus, pace, verve, enthusiasm, energy and just a bit more perhaps direct. We would kill teams off 3 or 4.

Now it just seems overkill on the tippy tappy and at times it can be pedestrian.

It does feel like things are stale at the moment and I can see why some think 'its the end of an era' - a tad melodramatic but we arent really progressing now on the pitch.

We don't have the legs for it. Those 2 fullbacks could run for fucking days cleaning up anything that was left behind along with Toby & Jan in freaking God mode. Best back 4 in the world allowed you to take more risks + a more athletic Dembele could allow you to chase the opposition all game. We just don't have the players for it anymore.

thebenjamin · Oct 24, 2018

JCRD said:
Why do you think we have changed the way we played previously and by previously I mean the season before we went to Wembley? Has Poch basically tried to manage the team from not burning out? I dont get it. We used to play with much more impetus, pace, verve, enthusiasm, energy and just a bit more perhaps direct. We would kill teams off 3 or 4.

Now it just seems overkill on the tippy tappy and at times it can be pedestrian.

It does feel like things are stale at the moment and I can see why some think 'its the end of an era' - a tad melodramatic but we arent really progressing now on the pitch.

We've effectively lost Walker, Rose, Dembele and Wanyama from that side. Either left or no longer the same player due to injuries. That's the middle of the field and the flanks that we no longer control. They've all been replaced with bargain buys or academy prospects, so we have to cut our cloth accordingly.

We're still greater than the sum of our parts, but the sum of our parts is of a considerably lower quality that it used to be. That is why Poch is always talking about the difference between perception and reality. We've lost half a side and haven't replaced the personnel adequately. He can't keep working miracles.

JCRD · Oct 24, 2018

dtxspurs said:
We don't have the legs for it. Those 2 fullbacks could run for fucking days cleaning up anything that was left behind along with Toby & Jan in freaking God mode. Best back 4 in the world allowed you to take more risks + a more athletic Dembele could allow you to chase the opposition all game. We don't have the players for it right now.

Maybe so, I dont know. I miss that team, I know it was shit in the CL but was exciting in the league.

Your post though is exactly what I mean by stale, the team and squad needs a refresh, not an overhaul but a refresh but unfortunately this wont happen for a while.

JCRD · Oct 24, 2018

thebenjamin said:
We've effectively lost Walker, Rose, Dembele and Wanyama from that side. Either left or no longer the same player due to injuries. That's the middle of the field and the flanks that we no longer control. They've all been replaced with bargain buys or academy prospects, so we have to cut our cloth accordingly.

We're still greater than the sum of our parts, but the sum of our parts is of a considerably lower quality that it used to be. That is why Poch is always talking about the difference between perception and reality. We've lost half a side and haven't replaced the personnel adequately. He can't keep working miracles.

Thats what I mean by us being stale. I fear that this will be the last season and agree to point when i hear people say its the end of an era. I think Eriksen will leave, one or two others, and may well need to 'start again' - just dont think it will happen in terms of getting in real quality and think Poch will leave as a result.

heelspurs · Oct 24, 2018

dtxspurs said:
We don't have the legs for it. Those 2 fullbacks could run for fucking days cleaning up anything that was left behind along with Toby & Jan in freaking God mode. Best back 4 in the world allowed you to take more risks + a more athletic Dembele could allow you to chase the opposition all game. We just don't have the players for it anymore.

I wish there was a way to address this. I cannot believe that no one has devised a way. I fancy myself a relatively intelligent person but I cannot fathom a way to alter this situation.

dtxspurs · Oct 24, 2018

heelspurs said:
I wish there was a way to address this. I cannot believe that no one has devised a way. I fancy myself a relatively intelligent person but I cannot fathom a way to alter this situation.

Crazy, right?

heelspurs · Oct 24, 2018

thebenjamin said:
We've effectively lost Walker, Rose, Dembele and Wanyama from that side. Either left or no longer the same player due to injuries. That's the middle of the field and the flanks that we no longer control. They've all been replaced with bargain buys or academy prospects, so we have to cut our cloth accordingly.

We're still greater than the sum of our parts, but the sum of our parts is of a considerably lower quality that it used to be. That is why Poch is always talking about the difference between perception and reality. We've lost half a side and haven't replaced the personnel adequately. He can't keep working miracles.

But I thought, in my ignorance, that that was the plan to always be replenishing the squad with younger, more vibrant, up-and-comers - and not carrying people like Janssen for 3 years. And in turn moving on the older more established players for huge profits. Every so often it will click and be magic and we have a shot at something. Basically the BVB of the PL because we cannot, and will not, compete otherwise due to financial disparity.

dudu · Oct 24, 2018

JCRD said:
Why do you think we have changed the way we played previously and by previously I mean the season before we went to Wembley? Has Poch basically tried to manage the team from not burning out? I dont get it. We used to play with much more impetus, pace, verve, enthusiasm, energy and just a bit more perhaps direct. We would kill teams off 3 or 4.

Now it just seems overkill on the tippy tappy and at times it can be pedestrian.

It does feel like things are stale at the moment and I can see why some think 'its the end of an era' - a tad melodramatic but we arent really progressing now on the pitch.

I'm sure this is what was being said at the start of last season too. Granted, we might have been playing a little better but everyone was going on about how we lost our press etc. I personally think we will up our pressing game when we are able to sustain it as I don't think k we are at the moment.

Ghost Hardware · Oct 24, 2018

I think a large part of why we don’t really press more is the size of the pitch at Wembley. It’s bigger then our old one at the Lane. This might not seem like much but when your playing half your fixtures on it, it becomes a lot harder physically to keep up. That along with loosing pace in our back line essently results in a high press being an impossibility for us right now. If Poch moves back to it in the future I don’t know, but right now, as much as I morn it, I understand why we don’t.

coys200 · Oct 24, 2018

I think an interesting question as a top player ( which many of our players would now consider themselves to be). How long can you keep hearing the same voice and getting the same result. As in just falling short and not winning anything. It’s an honest question I just wonder if a player at some point will just drop off their performance a bit. Maybe there comes a point after 5 years where however good a manager is it just goes a bit stale. I guess at that point as a club you have a decision to make. Because there’s absolutely no point doing the same thing season after season if you just getting the same results something has to change. Or can a couple of signings give it a fresh feel, I honestly don’t know. But I think if we did end this season trophyless you have to at least ask the question.

thfc1973 · Oct 24, 2018

Why I am so strongly against Poch is not because he hasn't performed admirably - but because he's now done.

I don't have the time anymore to explain every reasoning for saying a lot of harsh words about him because 1) most people hate what I have to say and slag it off before taking in what I really mean and 2) because people are too loved up with Poch to want to read/accept or admit to it...

But I'll lay it some of it out again;
@Gb160 - We lost control of our own destiny in the 1st game. We were winning and lost in the last 10mins. You need to be clever in CL away to the Italians. 1-0 up... play sensibly. We lost. Yes blame the players but they play to a tactic. The tactic was wrong so they lost. Poch is to blame for not changing things to better manage the game at the point we were winning. That forced the pressure on us and we always crumble under pressure. Always. How someone like Poch cant see we cant handle pressure after managing us for like 5yrs is a joke. So he should know better and set us up to manage the pressure better when we are in front.
100% Poch's fault. We've played better with worse players. So I have to blame Poch.
Best start to a season? That's like saying Arse have won 10 on the bounce. Its all relative. We played 1 great team in the PL- we got battered. The result flattered us too. We may look like we are having a great start but we have played shit opposition in those games. The 2 we lost they were miles better than us and the rest we won we played no better than we have done since the start of the season.. All the opposition played shit against us too. I was surprised weak West Ham were compared to their usual selves when they play against us. If you don't see how shit we have played thus far then theres no point me trying to justify how our form really is.

@HW61 - Compare Poch's first 2 seasons. We were all out pressing. We had fight from min1 - min90. What has happened in the following years is that has gone out the window. People talk about us supposedly pressing but let me tell you most teams press as much as we do now - if not more. Just watch them You'll see we aren't anywhere near the high press team we used to be. But people will still say, 'Ahhhh but you cant press for 90 mins' Yes, yes, yes, I get that. But we just don't press at all!! That's my point. We have regressed. If we pressed in every game but only for half the match I would be happy and accept it. If we had pressed for a few games all the time, I would get that. But we hardly press at all - in all games!! So that tells me Poch's initial tactics/belief when he first came changed and doesn't focus enough or at all on that part of the game anymore.
What has happened is Poch has come in like he seems to do at his clubs with a high energy ethos because when you have mediocre players all you have at that point is effort. So his MO appears to be press the fuck out of them, speed and energy and you will score. He gets the teams so far with that way of playing. But when tactics are required later on in his teams, he seems to get lost. Sorry HAS GOT LOST. He doesn't have the ability to have a game plan with tactics against better managers and teams.

If we want to blame Levy for everything its easy... But Poch would have got players if he made it clear we NEEDED them! Obviously, like what Levy keeps saying Poch said its not worth it.

When you keep losing/drawing when you're winning then its easy to blame players as most of you do, but you cant ignore the fact that a manager is there to guide the team to victory. He's failing and to me its clear he's not going to improve that much any time soon.

Edit: @coys200 - I mentioned in a long post, maybe more a few weeks/months ago, theres a reason why great managers never last in my opinion... Its cos they cant keep players fresh psychologically. Look at Pep.. He hasn't stayed at a club more than like 4 years. Slag him off as you will but Jose is the same. Klopp was sensible. He left before he was sacked exactly for that reason. He stayed too long. He got stale at Dortmund. This is what I have been saying for many months.. Poch has gone stale. He's done.
And those slagging Conte off.. well, he's exactly what we need at this point. A short term manager that will get us up another level. Who cares if it doesn't work out after 2yrs and we sack him!??? I don't!!! I just want him in now to get us up to the next level.

Does anyone (fans) care at Chelsea/City/Real that they're changing their managers often??? FUCK NO!!! Cos the manager that's there wins then gets the Spanish Archer. Move on to the next manager to do the business again.. This is what I want at Spurs and how I want us to operate too. Keep the manager on his toes. Win things, piss off and get another top class manager in.
This manager merry-go-round at the top clubs is for more than 1 reason. One of the other reasons too many people forget about is to keep the club winning.
Keeping Poch absolutely wont do that!

There's no more loyalty in football - especially at clubs that win things and are successful.. Remember that everyone!!!!

hakano · Oct 24, 2018

Hazelton said:
I will never, ever fall out of love with the club, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't beginning to grow frustrated with this team. As good as they are, they have achieved nothing. Things are getting stale and there is definitely room for improvement.

It's vital that we strenghen the weakest parts before we lose our strongest. I just fear that it's too late.

Totally agree, that boat has sailed. The current crop of players will be known as the greatest Spurs team to win fcuk all.

hakano · Oct 24, 2018

Garbob said:
Nothing poch could have done tonight, it was all the players on the pitch that fucked up

I'm not sure, he is the manager after all and must take his share of the blame. I am a big Poch fan but the way we have been playing whilst only one goal ahead is asking for trouble. It's up to him to get the team to play to win rather than pissing about once ahead. We should have put the game to bed way before Hugo got sent off. Inter and PSV games we were extremely comfortable until the very end and we end up with 1 point from those two games.

BPR_U16 · Oct 25, 2018

We could and should have won both games against Inter and PSV - should not continue conceding the late goals that we have.
Inter started with a poor decision taking Lamela off when we were on front foot, made worse by substitution of Kane.
But ultimately players need to take responsibility because they switched off.
Last night was a stroll and we should have been well ahead before Lloris f**ked up again. Will he ever learn?
Even so, playing for 10 minutes with 10 men should not have been an issue but ....
We need new faces because this lot have gone same way as other Spurs teams, though got closer to achieving something, but ultimately they cannot get across the line to be deemed winners. Mentally when going gets tight they get like us and say this cannot happen again - and it does.
This IS the best Spurs team that we have had in my 50yrs following the club but we are still missing that winning mentality and you do have to ask does it start with Poch?

daryl hannah · Oct 25, 2018

Don't forget that we had a perfectly good goal ruled out.

I still fancy us on our day to beat any team in the world - The Barca 4-2 could have been 3-3 with the number of chances we had in the second half. And perhaps even if Lloris hadn't gifted them the first. Despite the scoreline we put on a good showing 2nd half that night.

The problem is the 'Spursy' JuJu curse that Adebayor's Mum has put on the club.

rossdapep · Oct 25, 2018

Unless he turns it in and starts to not give a F. Pochettino gets a complete pass as far as I'm concerned.

How can you keep drilling the same message into players? How can you keep the same squad that's been around for four years motivated? How can you keep the same players believing when they see you have been shafted?

Deleted member 27995 · Oct 25, 2018

rossdapep said:
Unless he turns it in and starts to not give a F. Pochettino gets a complete pass as far as I'm concerned.

How can you keep drilling the same message into players? How can you keep the same squad that's been around for four years motivated? How can you keep the same players believing when they see you have been shafted?

He doesn't get a complete pass. No one gets a complete pass.

bat-chain · Oct 25, 2018

thfc1973 said:
Why I am so strongly against Poch is not because he hasn't performed admirably - but because he's now done.

I don't have the time anymore to explain every reasoning for saying a lot of harsh words about him because 1) most people hate what I have to say and slag it off before taking in what I really mean and 2) because people are too loved up with Poch to want to read/accept or admit to it...

But I'll lay it some of it out again;
@Gb160 - We lost control of our own destiny in the 1st game. We were winning and lost in the last 10mins. You need to be clever in CL away to the Italians. 1-0 up... play sensibly. We lost. Yes blame the players but they play to a tactic. The tactic was wrong so they lost. Poch is to blame for not changing things to better manage the game at the point we were winning. That forced the pressure on us and we always crumble under pressure. Always. How someone like Poch cant see we cant handle pressure after managing us for like 5yrs is a joke. So he should know better and set us up to manage the pressure better when we are in front.
100% Poch's fault. We've played better with worse players. So I have to blame Poch.
Best start to a season? That's like saying Arse have won 10 on the bounce. Its all relative. We played 1 great team in the PL- we got battered. The result flattered us too. We may look like we are having a great start but we have played shit opposition in those games. The 2 we lost they were miles better than us and the rest we won we played no better than we have done since the start of the season.. All the opposition played shit against us too. I was surprised weak West Ham were compared to their usual selves when they play against us. If you don't see how shit we have played thus far then theres no point me trying to justify how our form really is.

@HW61 - Compare Poch's first 2 seasons. We were all out pressing. We had fight from min1 - min90. What has happened in the following years is that has gone out the window. People talk about us supposedly pressing but let me tell you most teams press as much as we do now - if not more. Just watch them You'll see we aren't anywhere near the high press team we used to be. But people will still say, 'Ahhhh but you cant press for 90 mins' Yes, yes, yes, I get that. But we just don't press at all!! That's my point. We have regressed. If we pressed in every game but only for half the match I would be happy and accept it. If we had pressed for a few games all the time, I would get that. But we hardly press at all - in all games!! So that tells me Poch's initial tactics/belief when he first came changed and doesn't focus enough or at all on that part of the game anymore.
What has happened is Poch has come in like he seems to do at his clubs with a high energy ethos because when you have mediocre players all you have at that point is effort. So his MO appears to be press the fuck out of them, speed and energy and you will score. He gets the teams so far with that way of playing. But when tactics are required later on in his teams, he seems to get lost. Sorry HAS GOT LOST. He doesn't have the ability to have a game plan with tactics against better managers and teams.

If we want to blame Levy for everything its easy... But Poch would have got players if he made it clear we NEEDED them! Obviously, like what Levy keeps saying Poch said its not worth it.

When you keep losing/drawing when you're winning then its easy to blame players as most of you do, but you cant ignore the fact that a manager is there to guide the team to victory. He's failing and to me its clear he's not going to improve that much any time soon.

Edit: @coys200 - I mentioned in a long post, maybe more a few weeks/months ago, theres a reason why great managers never last in my opinion... Its cos they cant keep players fresh psychologically. Look at Pep.. He hasn't stayed at a club more than like 4 years. Slag him off as you will but Jose is the same. Klopp was sensible. He left before he was sacked exactly for that reason. He stayed too long. He got stale at Dortmund. This is what I have been saying for many months.. Poch has gone stale. He's done.
And those slagging Conte off.. well, he's exactly what we need at this point. A short term manager that will get us up another level. Who cares if it doesn't work out after 2yrs and we sack him!??? I don't!!! I just want him in now to get us up to the next level.

Does anyone (fans) care at Chelsea/City/Real that they're changing their managers often??? FUCK NO!!! Cos the manager that's there wins then gets the Spanish Archer. Move on to the next manager to do the business again.. This is what I want at Spurs and how I want us to operate too. Keep the manager on his toes. Win things, piss off and get another top class manager in.
This manager merry-go-round at the top clubs is for more than 1 reason. One of the other reasons too many people forget about is to keep the club winning.
Keeping Poch absolutely wont do that!

There's no more loyalty in football - especially at clubs that win things and are successful.. Remember that everyone!!!!

2 points off top and he's 'done'.

How many of these 'top' managers come in and win things in a year or two do it at a club the size of Spurs?

Not one that’s how many, the whole premise of your post is absurd because it totally ignores the fact Man City, Real and Chelsea have unlimited funds. It’s not the fact they are changing manager that keeps them successful it’s money.

Pochettino has us competing at a level above anything in our recent history, it is genuinely frightening some people would like to see him go so we can become successful, it makes no sense

Deleted member 27995 · Oct 25, 2018

bat-chain said:
2 points off top and he's 'done'.

How many of these 'top' managers come in and win things in a year or two do it at a club the size of Spurs?

Not one that’s how many, the whole premise of your post is absurd because it totally ignores the fact Man City, Real and Chelsea have unlimited funds. It’s not the fact they are changing manager that keeps them successful it’s money.

Pochettino has us competing at a level above anything in our recent history, it is genuinely frightening some people would like to see him go so we can become successful, it makes no sense

He's leaving anyway, the press have told us how unhappy he is, we might aswell accept it.

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