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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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nickspurs

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May 13, 2005
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shelfboy68 said:
Not a hard wired view at all all the evidence suggest we buy low then polish them up and off they go to clubs that can win things, it's certainly not illegal and it's enics perogative but to suggest it isn't the case is even more hard wired imo.
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Appreciate the response (y). But I don’t see it that way. I think they buy within a set of parameters with a view to finding great players who can progress the club on the field - not with the intention of ‘polishing’ them to sell them on. Yes, we lost Modric and Bale. We genuinely wanted to keep them IMO but player power prevailed. That’s evidence of an outcome, not an intention. Anyway, it’s not really on topic so will leave it there.
 
danielneeds

danielneeds

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nickspurs said:
Appreciate the response (y). But I don’t see it that way. I think they buy within a set of parameters with a view to finding great players who can progress the club on the field - not with the intention of ‘polishing’ them to sell them on. Yes, we lost Modric and Bale. We genuinely wanted to keep them IMO but player power prevailed. That’s evidence of an outcome, not an intention. Anyway, it’s not really on topic so will leave it there.
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It’s certainly better than the old Sugar way of buying a load of knackered, over the hill, injury-plagued wastrels, who made the owners of Faces in Gants Hill very wealthy.
 
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Lighty64

Lighty64

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thfc1973 said:
Why I am so strongly against Poch is not because he hasn't performed admirably - but because he's now done.

I don't have the time anymore to explain every reasoning for saying a lot of harsh words about him because 1) most people hate what I have to say and slag it off before taking in what I really mean and 2) because people are too loved up with Poch to want to read/accept or admit to it...

But I'll lay it some of it out again;
@Gb160 - We lost control of our own destiny in the 1st game. We were winning and lost in the last 10mins. You need to be clever in CL away to the Italians. 1-0 up... play sensibly. We lost. Yes blame the players but they play to a tactic. The tactic was wrong so they lost. Poch is to blame for not changing things to better manage the game at the point we were winning. That forced the pressure on us and we always crumble under pressure. Always. How someone like Poch cant see we cant handle pressure after managing us for like 5yrs is a joke. So he should know better and set us up to manage the pressure better when we are in front.
100% Poch's fault. We've played better with worse players. So I have to blame Poch.
Best start to a season? That's like saying Arse have won 10 on the bounce. Its all relative. We played 1 great team in the PL- we got battered. The result flattered us too. We may look like we are having a great start but we have played shit opposition in those games. The 2 we lost they were miles better than us and the rest we won we played no better than we have done since the start of the season.. All the opposition played shit against us too. I was surprised weak West Ham were compared to their usual selves when they play against us. If you don't see how shit we have played thus far then theres no point me trying to justify how our form really is.

@HW61 - Compare Poch's first 2 seasons. We were all out pressing. We had fight from min1 - min90. What has happened in the following years is that has gone out the window. People talk about us supposedly pressing but let me tell you most teams press as much as we do now - if not more. Just watch them You'll see we aren't anywhere near the high press team we used to be. But people will still say, 'Ahhhh but you cant press for 90 mins' Yes, yes, yes, I get that. But we just don't press at all!! That's my point. We have regressed. If we pressed in every game but only for half the match I would be happy and accept it. If we had pressed for a few games all the time, I would get that. But we hardly press at all - in all games!! So that tells me Poch's initial tactics/belief when he first came changed and doesn't focus enough or at all on that part of the game anymore.
What has happened is Poch has come in like he seems to do at his clubs with a high energy ethos because when you have mediocre players all you have at that point is effort. So his MO appears to be press the fuck out of them, speed and energy and you will score. He gets the teams so far with that way of playing. But when tactics are required later on in his teams, he seems to get lost. Sorry HAS GOT LOST. He doesn't have the ability to have a game plan with tactics against better managers and teams.

If we want to blame Levy for everything its easy... But Poch would have got players if he made it clear we NEEDED them! Obviously, like what Levy keeps saying Poch said its not worth it.

When you keep losing/drawing when you're winning then its easy to blame players as most of you do, but you cant ignore the fact that a manager is there to guide the team to victory. He's failing and to me its clear he's not going to improve that much any time soon.

Edit: @coys200 - I mentioned in a long post, maybe more a few weeks/months ago, theres a reason why great managers never last in my opinion... Its cos they cant keep players fresh psychologically. Look at Pep.. He hasn't stayed at a club more than like 4 years. Slag him off as you will but Jose is the same. Klopp was sensible. He left before he was sacked exactly for that reason. He stayed too long. He got stale at Dortmund. This is what I have been saying for many months.. Poch has gone stale. He's done.
And those slagging Conte off.. well, he's exactly what we need at this point. A short term manager that will get us up another level. Who cares if it doesn't work out after 2yrs and we sack him!??? I don't!!! I just want him in now to get us up to the next level.

Does anyone (fans) care at Chelsea/City/Real that they're changing their managers often??? FUCK NO!!! Cos the manager that's there wins then gets the Spanish Archer. Move on to the next manager to do the business again.. This is what I want at Spurs and how I want us to operate too. Keep the manager on his toes. Win things, piss off and get another top class manager in.
This manager merry-go-round at the top clubs is for more than 1 reason. One of the other reasons too many people forget about is to keep the club winning.
Keeping Poch absolutely wont do that!

There's no more loyalty in football - especially at clubs that win things and are successful.. Remember that everyone!!!!
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1, The tactic was wrong so they lost - so Poch told Jan to turn his back on the Icardi volley?

we haven't played well so far this season, but without a preseason and little rest for 12 WC players, I doubt we are going full guns blazing till the fitness levels are back up. you also got to remember not only do we have the Prem we have played 3 games in the CL so far, and even though only 1 point, only Barca deserved any points. we also have had 2 international breaks where the majority of the squad have either been involved or injured,

2, See my above reply, plus playing at the old WHL 1, we had a smaller and more compact pitch for more then half our matches, and last season we got stronger in the 2nd half of the season, which causes less burn out, plus all our players are 2 years older, and we are picking up more injuries, which has meant managing the high energy.

last season he lost to Pep both games, your other better manager that loses in the Finals instead of Semi's Poch took 4pts off. ok Klopp beat us this season but we have a team at the moment struggling with injuries. not once have we been able to field our strongest and fittest team yet.

3 to you and @coys200 for a 10 year period Ferguson (over 25 years) and Wenger dominated the prem, so managers do have long terms, but that is due to winning things. Ferguson when football was not financially backed took 5 years to win his 1st comp at Man U. because of the money involved now, managers are not given time

4 the reason they change their managers so often is because they can afford to pay them off every 5 minutes and all 3 teams have bought their trophies
 
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Lighty64

Lighty64

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daryl hannah said:
Don't forget that we had a perfectly good goal ruled out.

I still fancy us on our day to beat any team in the world - The Barca 4-2 could have been 3-3 with the number of chances we had in the second half. And perhaps even if Lloris hadn't gifted them the first. Despite the scoreline we put on a good showing 2nd half that night.

The problem is the 'Spursy' JuJu curse that Adebayor's Mum has put on the club.
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if the disallowed goal was towards the end of the match, I could say it cost us. unfortunately it happened a few minutes before we did get the equaliser and it doesn't mean the game would of followed the same patern
 
daryl hannah

daryl hannah

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Lighty64 said:
if the disallowed goal was towards the end of the match, I could say it cost us. unfortunately it happened a few minutes before we did get the equaliser and it doesn't mean the game would of followed the same patern
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ffs - point was we gave them a good game the second half.
 
Lighty64

Lighty64

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mpickard2087 said:
Of course there are two teams on the pitch, and it's inevitable that there will be times you concede from them sometimes, I think it's been a weakness throughout all five Poch seasons and to say there is nothing he/coaching staff can be doing to get us more organised at defending them is to just brush over it and say they don't matter.

Everything we do with them just doesn't look great, from what I watch - and some of that has to fall under what we're doing in preparation on the training ground. We hold this extremely high line at freekicks, ok I understand the thinking behind it, but it just ends up with our players backpedalling towards our own goal and that is always a struggle to then clear and doesn't exactly look very convincing at the best of times. We often see players left unmarked. Or coming in completely untracked. Our players not jumping and competing for the ball. Or a cluster of our guys all caught in the same area and the ball landing in a different one to an opposition player. Second (and third) balls require a bit of luck in where they drop, but we've seen a few goals now where opposition are getting on the end of them and our players are nowhere to be seen (more on this in a minute). Several things that don't look at all convincing, and keep repeating themselves.

There have been three or four goals now that have been carbon copy. Ball is only cleared to the edge of the box, opposition player picks it with no one in the same postcode as him, ball eventually (directly or with help) finds its way into the back of the net. And a couple of these goals now have fucked us quite badly. If Wednesday night wasn't bad enough, then cast your minds back two seasons to the FA Cup semi final. 2-2 vs. Chelsea, got ourselves back in the game and look the stronger team, concede a goal exactly like that to Hazard. Unmarked edge of the box. I complained about this soft goal at the time, I remember people doing what you say now - "there's no way you can set up for that and defend it" etc etc. - didn't agree then, see goals still being conceded in that fashion I rest my case. It's not good enough.

As I gave example in the match thread, a minute after the PSV goal we got a freekick and almost the same thing happened. Ball in, not cleared, drops edge of the box towards Eriksen....... However PSV are marking properly, have not just one, but two men stationed for the ball dropping edge of the box, and so clear their lines. If other teams can do it........

People might read this (or look at the length of the reply, and not...) and say I'm nitpicking and delving too deep into it all, but it's not hard to get organised at set pieces and, whilst you will always at times fall victim to individual errors, is something that is a great deal within our control. It might be a small part of the game, but it is often a fairly crucial one and we continue to look really lacking in this area. It's all part of the marginal gains that go towards improving as a team, and where I think Poch, or any manager, really earns their pay packets. It requires improvement.
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the thing is since Poch took over after his 1st season we have had a healthy GD every season since, and conceded a lot less goals than ever before.

I'm affraid in a training session it's impossible to know every scenario of a set piece, in that where the ball will go, and where it will finish. if there are too many occasions that players are not committing to 2nd and 3rd balls, then it's about time they learnt, because I'm sure Poch doesn't tell them to huddle up and keep warm. the teams that concede less at set pieces are usually teams that have a good solid CH that's strong in the air.

the trouble is also the minute you change from zonal to man marking it leaves holes elsewhere, on the Hazard goal we was just too deep and I doubt Poch would of said at half time if Hazard comes on I want him man marked even on set pieces because 1, 9 out of 10 times Hazard will take a corner if Willian isn't on the field, and 2, not being funny but for such a class player he doesn't score many outside the box. after watching it again why Dier doesn't attempt to block the shot is more annoying, just like Jan v Inter
 
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thfc1973

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Apr 29, 2015
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hakano said:
Why the anti-Poch stance? He has worked wonders for this club and often with one hand tied behind his back. Levy hasn't backed him at all and has been extremely lucky that Poch has delivered what he has in such a short space of time. He is ahead of schedule. Poch is not perfect by any means but to suggest we are better without him is delusional. We are a feared team amongst all of Europe - that is Poch's doing and all achieved with zero net spend over the last 4 years. Tell me who could have done better without anything to spend? Let's get real people, things are not right at the club it is clear to see but is Poch really the problem?
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This is the ironic part. He absolutely is ahead of schedule! The schedule I see is the same arc Wenger had. Only Wenger won things. Poch has done the whole arc schedule ahead of time without actually winning anything. He's come in, lifted the team for us to CL qualification a few times and we've had a couple of mini title races all in such a short space of time. He's done all that yet hasn't won anything. And now we're heading the same way Arse did under the last couple of years under Wenger. His legacy is there. He should leave soon before it's tarnished as well. He'll be forever remembered and loved. Especially by me. But we need a manager who's actually capable of winning things now. And a manager to bring us up to the next level. Conte is my wish. Everyone thinking Eddie would be great are just showing how their brain thinks... He's not a manager to win spurs trophies. He's a manager that will just keep us trying to fight for 4th spot.
It's the thinking like this that amazes me about fans. Whist I'm trying to think of a manager than can actually take us up to the next level there's still fans wanting to go backwards again with a manager like Eddie. He won't win us titles. And it tells me how fans think at our club. They're scared. They are fearful of rocking the boat with a controversial manager, so they would much rather choose a cushy, cozy, soft and warm manager that'll make people feel good about the club!

BOLLOCKS to that notion!
We need a manager with anger, passion, experience and the strength of character to rock the boat, challenge the board and players to make them think and dream big.

Mediocre, mid-table managers will be exactly that. And we'll go back to being that if we don't have a manager in charge with the desire and ability to win us things.
 
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hakano

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Apr 26, 2005
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thfc1973 said:
This is the ironic part. He absolutely is ahead of schedule! The schedule I see is the same arc Wenger had. Only Wenger won things. Poch has done the whole arc schedule ahead of time without actually winning anything. He's come in, lifted the team for us to CL qualification a few times and we've had a couple of mini title races all in such a short space of time. He's done all that yet hasn't won anything. And now we're heading the same way Arse did under the last couple of years under Wenger. His legacy is there. He should leave soon before it's tarnished as well. He'll be forever remembered and loved. Especially by me. But we need a manager who's actually capable of winning things now. And a manager to bring us up to the next level. Conte is my wish. Everyone thinking Eddie would be great are just showing how their brain thinks... He's not a manager to win spurs trophies. He's a manager that will just keep us trying to fight for 4th spot.
It's the thinking like this that amazes me about fans. Whist I'm trying to think of a manager than can actually take us up to the next level there's still fans wanting to go backwards again with a manager like Eddie. He won't win us titles. And it tells me how fans think at our club. They're scared. They are fearful of rocking the boat with a controversial manager, so they would much rather choose a cushy, cozy, soft and warm manager that'll make people feel good about the club!

BOLLOCKS to that notion!
We need a manager with anger, passion, experience and the strength of character to rock the boat, challenge the board and players to make them think and dream big.

Mediocre, mid-table managers will be exactly that. And we'll go back to being that if we don't have a manager in charge with the desire and ability to win us things.
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I agree with Conte over Howe. I agree that we should absolutely not go for the safe option and we need someone with passion.......just I think Poch deserves to be backed and if he is backed and doesn’t win anything then sure, it will be time to move on. You can’t compare him with Wenger, he took over a team that were already winning trophies with an amazing defence and sprinkled with players like Wright and Bergkamp.

Here’s the thing Conte took over an amazing Chelsea team, and Juve team too and still wanted to add with expensive players. How good is Conte without any backing whatsoever? You saw how he threw his toys out of the pram for a lack of signings in the summer where they had bought more and spent more than Spurs. That’s the irony....
 
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chinaman

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Jul 19, 2003
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The point about Poch hasn't won anything is grossly unfair. In Spain, the team was heavily in debt and he had no choice but leave. In So'ton, the owner was selling all his top players against his wishes. Since he has been here, we've been punching above our weight, and he hasn't been able to improve the team in the past 3 summers while all those teams above, below and around us have been spending at a frantic pace. What chance does he have ?
 
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thfc1973

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Apr 29, 2015
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Right now, I'm just wishing that ENIC sell up and any new owner is more open and willing to spending on the team. Levy has proven one again he's only in it for the bottom line. Minimal risk taking and only willing to spend where absolutely necessary. That doesn't suit where we are right now and where Poch is right now.
Sure Conte would be risky. More risky than Poch, but we're heading downhill fast and Levy is going to make the team and Poch feel more negative about the future.
I think this season is done. We just need to baton down the hatches and hope we get into the new stadium next year and salvage our season. Then hopefully we get a fresh owner and manager in to Kickstart us on next season.
Either way now we're heading for a crunch time financially and that'll impact Poch and the team.

Time to cash in on the club and sell up.
 
dtxspurs

dtxspurs

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If Poch walks and its all due to the stadium financial constraints, will the stadium have been worth it?
 
doctor stefan Freud

doctor stefan Freud

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dtxspurs said:
If Poch walks and its all due to the stadium financial constraints, will the stadium have been worth it?
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From an emotional point of view, definitely not. I’ve loved the Poch era and the man is quality in many domains.
But, if the stadium attracts wealthy potential owners who see investing in the team as a strategy necessary to the development of the club, then probably yes. It would be a tragedy if we lost Poch before this happened though. He deserves a shot with some financial backing
 
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