The beginning of the end...

Lighty64 · Aug 26, 2019

CookieYiddo said:
I’ve been a long time lurker, a few years now in fact, so I figured it’s time to actually sign up and get involved. This seems like the best place to start.

Like many of you on here, I also believe that the CL run covered over the cracks of a worrying season last time out. We should have run away with third place, instead we stole 4th by the smallest of margins. It’s continued again this season. We look like we simply lack any ideas. We can control the middle of the park, great, what else? Remember how we played when were chasing down Leicester a few years back? We were dynamic, we were dangerous and we were a nightmare to deal with.
Can you say that about us now? Our squad is stronger than then, so why are we so devoid of idea’s and ruthlessness? Pochettino looked more and more agitated last season, like he was annoyed to be here. That hasn’t changed. We all hoped being backed in the summer we revitalise our squad and system but instead we look as average as we did last season.
The second you hear Pochettino say “maybe I will go. I need a new five year plan. I don’t know if I’ll be here” etc then you have to thing his mind is elsewhere. Even if only slightly distracted, it makes a huge difference. The players can tell, they can tell when he isn’t 100% focused.

welcome to the forum, and yes we all remember the 2 seasons chasing Leicester and Chelsea. at the time we had the youngest squad both seasons, which has aged 4 years and not as young. also if you watch the highlights from those 2 seasons we had less teams sitting 10 men behind the ball. with 10 men behind the ball the high press doesn't work and we just don't have the players like City or Liverpool that find that bit of space in between the lines.

ValenciaYid · Aug 26, 2019

Poch is in charge of coaching, managing, strategy, motivation etc (all missing yesterday and other times), of course the players are responsible too but you have to ask whats going on with Poch and his management because its happening under it....

am_yisrael_chai · Aug 26, 2019

Yiddo100 said:
What’s the reason for the 6 months before though ?

A stale squad with lots of injuries, fatigued players and a phenomenal CL’s run.

DCSPUR · Aug 26, 2019

Yiddo100 said:
What’s the reason for the 6 months before though ?

squad utterly running of fumes from the summer before, no pre season, massive injuries, almost 2 years away from home and no purchases....facts

John48 · Aug 26, 2019

& guess what, the next team up at WHL is Crystal Palace who will do what N'Castle did, only with better players.

mattyspurs · Aug 26, 2019

So I’ve not properly been on here for the dissection of yesterday’s result.

Is there any thing truly enlightening in these 44 pages that I must read or can I catch up with the last few?

44 pages is a lot in a day!

rossdapep · Aug 26, 2019

Everlasting Seconds said:
This was one of my main issues with Pochettino from before he signed, and it has never changed. During his time at Southampton, he was perceived at somebody who rotated the squad but facts show he didn't. Back then he played one core of few players all the time, and rotating a few positions a little bit. This has been repeated every season at Tottenham. At times, there has been no choice. But even when he has had a fit enough and good enough squad to rotate and rest players, he has not done so. And yes, as you are saying, we have a squad plagued with injuries.

To be fair Klopp is the same but is getting more out of that bunch currently.

Having said that, I do expect Liverpool to decline from next year onwards if they don't bring some new players in.

We seem to have left the changes a bit too late and a lot of it is coming back to bite us.

Saoirse · Aug 26, 2019

Coco-1101 said:
So its poch fault and he should be sacked?

A whole lot of it is, yes. Whether he should be sacked or not depends on whether it's redeemable and who's available. If VY is right and the dressing room is against him I don't think that's unreasonable of them and I don't see how it's recovered so yes, he should go if that's the case.

DCSPUR · Aug 26, 2019

ValenciaYid said:
Poch is in charge of coaching, managing, strategy, motivation etc (all missing yesterday and other times), of course the players are responsible too but you have to ask whats going on with Poch and his management because its happening under it....

Mate, really appreciate your insights and updates. From an outsider point of view it seems that the most obvious answer is, well, the most obvious one. We improbably got to the CL final, running on fumes, and while the summer has led to the beginning of a new cycle, we are clearly a bit in between. The Eriksen mess is not ideal; seems like Danny Rose wanted to leave but according to Herc, Poch supported him, Toby wanted out and then there is the 10 probs listed by herc in this thread.

Seems like everyone needs to take a breath and let the next 6 months play out and not arse things up for the club with major issues like bond scheme and naming rights to come.

sausage · Aug 26, 2019

mattyspurs said:
So I’ve not properly been on here for the dissection of yesterday’s result.

Is there any thing truly enlightening in these 44 pages that I must read or can I catch up with the last few?

44 pages is a lot in a day!

especially for a blind man!

Saoirse · Aug 26, 2019

mattyspurs said:
So I’ve not properly been on here for the dissection of yesterday’s result.

Is there any thing truly enlightening in these 44 pages that I must read or can I catch up with the last few?

44 pages is a lot in a day!

ITK from ValenciaYid that Poch has lost the dressing room and is on borrowed time. And footage from yesterday showing that Vertonghen has a mystery black eye.

am_yisrael_chai · Aug 26, 2019

ValenciaYid said:
Poch is in charge of coaching, managing, strategy, motivation etc (all missing yesterday and other times), of course the players are responsible too but you have to ask whats going on with Poch and his management because its happening under it....

I don’t remember anyone asking those questions when we won in Amsterdam. Call me cynical but I doubt any of this thread would have been said if we won yesterday by a few goals. So bottom line while everyone seems to be reflecting on long periods of disappointment this is nothing other than a knee jerk reaction to a single loss.

Wadec · Aug 26, 2019

ValenciaYid said:
Poch is in charge of coaching, managing, strategy, motivation etc (all missing yesterday and other times), of course the players are responsible too but you have to ask whats going on with Poch and his management because its happening under it....

Exactly this. There is not a Spurs fan who wants Poch to be sacked but for the last few years we have always had something going on (Wembley, no transfers, world cup). Which I feel has taken the pressure off him to a degree. There was nothing going into this season we were not aware of before the summer. It's Poch's responsibility to address all things you mention and thus far he has not done this.

Coco-1101 · Aug 26, 2019

ValenciaYid said:
Poch is in charge of coaching, managing, strategy, motivation etc (all missing yesterday and other times), of course the players are responsible too but you have to ask whats going on with Poch and his management because its happening under it....

But based on the performance he does the job of manager and drop some one then all will be against him again that why is the wrong team selection. Against newcastle not much tactics needed but the player has to play with speed which they failed to do so.

Everlasting Seconds · Aug 26, 2019

dudu said:
It's based on your post.

You taken some stats, applied 0 context, made up a hypothetical league, and ranked us in said league based on us repeating form over a period of time that doesn't equate to how teams play football.

I think this is a petty case of killing the messenger. The stats aren't made up, they are facts. Winning 9 of 21 matches, that's pretty bad. You attack my post, but that won't change the stats, which speak for them selves.

arunspurs · Aug 26, 2019

am_yisrael_chai said:
I don’t remember anyone asking those questions when we won in Amsterdam. Call me cynical but I doubt any of this thread would have been said if we won yesterday by a few goals. So bottom line while everyone seems to be reflecting on long periods of disappointment this is nothing other than a knee jerk reaction to a single loss.

CL certainly papered over the cracks of PL. And Spurs fans have been largely behind the management. There were proper excuses like no preseason, injuries etc...But regardless of what happened yesterday or in first 2 games , the one things that irks me is the defensive organisation. First 2 years under Poch we improved & improved and became best defensive unit in PL. Now in last 2 seasons, those defensive organisation are gone. We generally concede first then try to pull it back.
Poch & mgmt team will have to address this.

rossdapep · Aug 26, 2019

ValenciaYid said:
Poch is in charge of coaching, managing, strategy, motivation etc (all missing yesterday and other times), of course the players are responsible too but you have to ask whats going on with Poch and his management because its happening under it....

When you think that we were an Arsenal capitulation and a VAR decision away from not getting top 4 and then going out of the CL I think more people would be alarmed about Poch's coaching/management decline this year.

Coco-1101 · Aug 26, 2019

Saoirse said:
A whole lot of it is, yes. Whether he should be sacked or not depends on whether it's redeemable and who's available. If VY is right and the dressing room is against him I don't think that's unreasonable of them and I don't see how it's recovered so yes, he should go if that's the case.

I don't believe that it will be the case bar 1 or 2 players. Lets not forget that they are world beaters and they will downtool and make the manager go. Individually not many of them are world class as this TW proved. Its poch who made them looks better then what they are.

Everlasting Seconds · Aug 26, 2019

rossdapep said:
To be fair Klopp is the same but is getting more out of that bunch currently.

Having said that, I do expect Liverpool to decline from next year onwards if they don't bring some new players in.

We seem to have left the changes a bit too late and a lot of it is coming back to bite us.

Fully agree with you and I was gobsmacked at how he got away with it ie. ended the season with as good results as he did. There was little to no rotation at all for very long periods.

Saoirse · Aug 26, 2019

am_yisrael_chai said:
I don’t remember anyone asking those questions when we won in Amsterdam. Call me cynical but I doubt any of this thread would have been said if we won yesterday by a few goals. So bottom line while everyone seems to be reflecting on long periods of disappointment this is nothing other than a knee jerk reaction to a single loss.

Yes, if we didn't have bad results and worse performances over a period of eight months, things would probably be better and there'd be less criticism. As for the CL run we should remember that Llorente was absolutely crucial in both the QF and SF - so we promptly released him on a free transfer after refusing to extent his existing contract...

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