The beginning of the end...

soup · Aug 26, 2019

Coco-1101 said:
Then why didn't you said this before then. Why wait until sunday result? We are bigger cub thanks to Poch not levy. I don't think so we will be in this scenario which you are saying.

Just for some context, the 'Poch Press Conferences' thread, which has been going for long before Sunday's result has a lot of discussion leading up to several of the points being made in this thread and Poch's demeanour of late. Whilst this thread did come about after the Newcastle game, the 'knee jerk' regarding his bad attitude has been going on for a bit longer.

Not trying to call you out mate, like I said, just giving some context to all the 'knee jerk' comments, which despite being constantly explained seem to be falling on deaf ears. We keep trying to explain that it's not a recent school of thought that Poch isn't happy.

No one dislikes him, no one is screaming for his head, no one is making it personal, in fact I'm sure we'd all love as individuals to put an arm around the bloke and ask him what's up. He's affected us all over the years to an extent he's almost become a loveable mate of ours, which is why now it's so telling he's not happy.

I can see a brilliant future under nice Poch, but not so much under this grumpy bitter one. I don't want him sacked, I want him to look happy again and see that translated onto the pitch.

Ronwol196061 · Aug 26, 2019

DelBoyN17 said:
I love Poch & all he’s done for us, but as someone mentioned above, yesterday’s performance wasn’t something new, this has been ongoing for a while, I can’t help but think could the squad do with hearing a new voice? Not saying I want MP out, but after 6 years have players become too complacent? Either way win a trophy or not I think this will be Poch’s last season at our club

I think Poch needs to show we are developing not stagnating...winning a trophy will save his arse but if the quality is iffy it can only be for so long.

Mr Pink · Aug 26, 2019

ValenciaYid said:
and for the record i dont want mourinho or anyone else. I want Poch to sort it as im quite sure Levy does too... but we are supposed to be a “big” club, CL finalists, challenging for the title, attracting top talent, stadium etc...so we need to start being like Liverpool and City in terms of playing and if theres a problem we identify it and fix it...but i dont see problems being fixed or lessons being learnt...even with certain players being unavailable we should be playing much better and not losing to Newcastle...City are pissed they dropped points to us but look at their play and attempts on goal, we cant even claim that against Newcastle....760 passes on Sunday and probably 730 sideways and back....

So hopefully he hasn't lost the dressing room.

Because when that happens there's usually no way back.

mattyspurs · Aug 26, 2019

All I want is the old Poch back. The one who galvanised the team and got us to have a huge spirit

The one that made us the envy of many fans because of the lovely football we played, where the pundits purred about us.

We have got the best squad we’ve had in 25 + years, I just want him to work his magic on it ?

mark87 · Aug 26, 2019

ValenciaYid said:
Drink?

Pint please. Anything but Carling.

Ronwol196061 · Aug 26, 2019

soup said:
Just for some context, the 'Poch Press Conferences' thread, which has been going for long before Sunday's result has a lot of discussion leading up to several of the points being made in this thread and Poch's demeanour of late. Whilst this thread did come about after the Newcastle game, the 'knee jerk' regarding his bad attitude has been going on for a bit longer.

Not trying to call you out mate, like I said, just giving some context to all the 'knee jerk' comments, which despite being constantly explained seem to be falling on deaf ears. We keep trying to explain that it's not a recent school of thought that Poch isn't happy.

No one dislikes him, no one is screaming for his head, no one is making it personal, in fact I'm sure we'd all love as individuals to put an arm around the bloke and ask him what's up. He's affected us all over the years to an extent he's almost become a loveable mate of ours, which is why now it's so telling he's not happy.

I can see a brilliant future under nice Poch, but not so much under this grumpy bitter one. I don't want him sacked, I want him to look happy again and see that translated onto the pitch.

I really think is frustrated with the performances and he hasn't shown get how to change that.Scraping wins is not enough.
He needs to be clear on what will work.
He talks in such circles we will have to wait for the next book as that seemed legit at least.
He doesnt have a lot of time if the mood all around continues

ajspurs · Aug 26, 2019

Well we definitely need a shake up but that's one thing I don't think we'll see on Sunday that's for sure. I don't think anyone would be frustrated if you could see a hunger, urgency and enthusiasm about our play on Sunday, win or lose but I guarantee we'll see the same slow and unimaginative football.

I tell you something though, Poch is almost lucky it's the Arsenal game next. Yeah they're arch rivals and it's the game no Spurs fan wants to lose, but at least a loss to Arsenal away is never the greatest of surprises and we won't be dealing with a team camped in their own half. I actually think we'd be in deep shit if we had someone like Burnley at home next week, because we'd probably lose playing the same slow side to side football and even more questions would be asked of Poch.

Lifelong · Aug 26, 2019

This thread may be knee jerk as well as a lot of other things but I still think over the last few seasons we have got lucky and in true Spurs fashion we haven’t taken advantage of it. Unless you call champions league qualification a success, which for us I guess is a starting point. We made the final of the champions league, for us a big deal, and guess what..we didn’t turn up. And that was against another team who also didn’t turn up!! We might aspire to be one of the big clubs but we certainly don’t look like one on the pitch at the moment. Yesterday was just another case of same old same old...I’m sitting next to my son who is screaming blue murder and I am just sitting there, shrugging my shoulders, we have seen it time after time... the last thing I want is for Poch to go but I still think the ‘has he taken us as far as he can’ is a valid question. Don’t ask me who would replace him though as I don’t have a clue...

Bobbins · Aug 26, 2019

Feel like we've swapped places with the Liverpool of just before Klopp's time. They've become the young, dynamic pressing team with infinite energy. We've become shapeless and turgid.

Whisper it quietly but there's almost zero differences between our performances of the last 9 months and AVB's final season.

That City game could've very easily been a 5-0 - the kind of results which drove AVB into an early grave.

Honestly don't know what's happened to Poch - everything about him has changed, particularly in the last year but it started happening after we left WHL and he was in tears on the pitch at the end. He's just so grindingly miserable now, and that misery seems to have infected every aspect of the team, from the way we play to our players desire (or not) to play for Spurs.

Maybe he should've left after the CL final for his own sake as much as anything else. If he's lost the motivation then it's best for everyone that he moves on. If he hasn't, then it's his job to transform this team into something like what it used to be. Step one would be to stop complaining and snapping at journalists non-stop. Step two would be to stop dropping key players and then saying there's no issue and that it's tactical.

Next week's game couldn't really come at a worse time - to be going into the (fucking hateful!!!) international break off the back of two defeats including one to our most bitter rivals will ensure a horrible taste in the mouth for an extended period.

Sandros Shiny Head · Aug 26, 2019

JCRD said:
I am sure Poch will change things but for him to do that he needs to look at himself.

Don't really have that confidence tbh, he's become a really strange person now and I don't have the same like or interest in him anymore.
I think most fans are in agreement with the overall issues we have as a side tactically and style wise and only argue about how to go about fixing it. Poch though doesn't really seem to even want to acknowledge the issues and since it's been so obvious for so long I don't see it changing

JayB · Aug 26, 2019

All of the top six bar City and Liverpool have major question marks surrounding them. Arsenal’s defense is awful, United have little squad depth and only Pogba as a creative outlet, and Chelsea are relying on youth and have their own problems at the back.

Yes we’ve been poor but look at the players we’ve had out injured, suspended, or unsettled. We’re also very early in the process of integrating the new signings. It’s possible that all of Son, Dele, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Ndombele, Lo Celso, and Aurier could find themselves in our best XI if they all stay at the club and have their heads on right. That’s *seven* of our top players who have either not been available for whatever reason or have yet to be anywhere near their best — not to mention the likes of Dier, Davies, Foyth, Sessegnon etc!

Let’s not lose hope in this season so soon, there’s plenty to play for.

Metalhead · Aug 26, 2019

It does sound like Poch is pissed off about the ongoing contract situations and the comment about being the 'coach' not the manager was evidently him expressing frustration that he cannot control how quickly players are brought in or moved on. I get that and I get that the way that Levy does business can probably be immensely frustrating at times although I would also say that some things are beyond even his control. I get all of that. That said, again, what does any of that have to do with the players f*cking about on the pitch and not being imaginative/incisive/direct enough in the final third?

JCRD · Aug 26, 2019

Sandros Shiny Head said:
Don't really have that confidence tbh, he's become a really strange person now and I don't have the same like or interest in him anymore.
I think most fans are in agreement with the overall issues we have as a side tactically and style wise and only argue about how to go about fixing it. Poch though doesn't really seem to even want to acknowledge the issues and since it's been so obvious for so long I don't see it changing

I just hope that the performance dropped the penny so to speak and theyre all sitting there havign a heart to heart because it wont be good enough and a wasted opportunity

I dont get this whole unsettled squad business. So if these players dont want to play for us are still with us past 2nd September... what do we think is gonna happen? That theyre all of a sudden going to try hard? Also it goes beyond just an unsettled squad... not all players are unsettled.. its the way we are playing...

I just cant wait till the Arse game now as that will be a telling reaction one way or another

nigespurs · Aug 26, 2019

15 points from the last 15 games, average of 1 point per game, this isn't a blip this has been ongoing since Feb.

To get top 4 we need to be closer to an average of 2 points per game and we currently are nowhere near that level.

Dougal · Aug 26, 2019

nigespurs said:
15 points from the last 15 games, average of 1 point per game, this isn't a blip this has been ongoing since Feb.

To get top 4 we need to be closer to an average of 2 points per game and we currently are nowhere near that level.

Lucky the average counts after 38 games and not 3 then.

Ronwol196061 · Aug 26, 2019

Metalhead said:
It does sound like Poch is pissed off about the ongoing contract situations and the comment about being the 'coach' not the manager was evidently him expressing frustration that he cannot control how quickly players are brought in or moved on. I get that and I get that the way that Levy does business can probably be immensely frustrating at times although I would also say that some things are beyond even his control. I get all of that. That said, again, what does any of that have to do with the players f*cking about on the pitch and not being imaginative/incisive/direct enough in the final third?

Klopp is so much lighter around the situation.
Poch gets heavy at times and this creates tension. Sure a win helps but quality of play is so much more important for confidence.

viktorviktor · Aug 26, 2019

Poch is a fantastic man manager. He has motivated and given confidence to mediocre players to the point where they have played like world beaters. He is not that great tactically, and our play, especially in attack has always been about individuals creating more than a system. When his man management is no longer as effective, we are left with what we saw yesterday...

shelfboy68 · Aug 26, 2019

nigespurs said:
15 points from the last 15 games, average of 1 point per game, this isn't a blip this has been ongoing since Feb.

To get top 4 we need to be closer to an average of 2 points per game and we currently are nowhere near that level.

We are nowhere near the level we should be because it has been painfully obvious for a while that our form has been pretty shit so many defeats etc is not good enough for a team trying to become a big successful club.
Unfortunately a lot of the support base is in denial with what is happening what the club doesn't need is more upheaval and problems.

Mr Pink · Aug 26, 2019

Metalhead said:
It does sound like Poch is pissed off about the ongoing contract situations and the comment about being the 'coach' not the manager was evidently him expressing frustration that he cannot control how quickly players are brought in or moved on. I get that and I get that the way that Levy does business can probably be immensely frustrating at times although I would also say that some things are beyond even his control. I get all of that. That said, again, what does any of that have to do with the players f*cking about on the pitch and not being imaginative/incisive/direct enough in the final third?

Possibly answered your own question mate.

Frustration turning to a lack of enthusiasm from Poch?

He's rightly lauded for doing so well and then doesn't feel he's appreciated enough because we havnt adapted to keep him happy - in some respects?

Speculating but I'm guessing that's the thrust of it.

Dougal · Aug 26, 2019

shelfboy68 said:
We are nowhere near the level we should be because it has been painfully obvious for a while that our form has been pretty shit so many defeats etc is not good enough for a team trying to become a big successful club.
Unfortunately a lot of the support base is in denial with what is happening what the club doesn't need is more upheaval and problems.

Rather than denial, I think there is a disagreement on how we should move forward.

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