The Mauricio Pochettino thread

dudu · Oct 30, 2019

sausage said:
From what I have witnessed, MP seems to have a weird thing about other teams tactics. It's like he doesn't feel like he should have to change the team to adapt to the opposition, and they should have to adapt to his tactics.

One thing which (I would be amazed if people denied it) that has been consistent over his tenure has been either not seeing, or completely ignoring, the tactical setups he could employ that would stifle the opposition. You see it in the threads here where people are like "we should do this to stop their one trick thing" and we do the opposite. The examples would be numerous, but I think I could count on one hand (out of some 200 matches he's had now) where we actually looked like we were set up to exploit something about the other team.

That's what annoys me, and I've give up hope of that changing - we're 5 years in, and it doesn't look like something that he will ever do with us.

Right or wrong, your saying to sit back and counter Liverpool was not an intended setup for them?

ackie · Oct 30, 2019

I've watched some games again and looked at our squad.
Although the evident problems at the moment, I personally think, whether it is Mopo or the next manager, we have a very good young squad that simply needs a bit tweaking.
I've been very impressed by both Ndombele and Lo Celso.
We haven't seen Sess yet and I believe with the likes of foyth and winks we have a good crop of young players.
We definitely just need to get rid of those who don't want to be here.
This season players like Kane, Son, sissoko, and lamela have impressed...
Let's just wait if they can all gel and bring a string winning mentality.
They've had a week to train and focus and I'm for one hoping that this weekend we can win again.

McFlash · Oct 30, 2019

LeParisien said:
That is not true. You are drawing strong conclusions based off limited knowledge. Not as bad as @whitesocks whos made the incredible claim that he doubts Poch ever talks about tactics. Incredible because it advertises his bombastic stupidity.

The game plan for Eriksen and Son was shown clearly on french tv (which like the rest of the tv in France is far more thoughtful than in anglophone countries). They were asked to track the fullback when Liverpool were attacking down that wing. However when the ball was on the other flank Son and Eriksen were asked to tuck inside almost to halfway and block passing lanes. Liverpool did well to switch play by knocking a series of perfect 50 yard balls but it did slow their play down.

The key benefit of this tactic was to help in transition. From the first few seconds this inside position would provide triangles in the middle that would help us break at pace. If eg Eriksen had been over on the opposite flank then he would have been a long way from the ball if we won it back in the middle.

It was a fairly effective strategy and didn’t result in us conceding any goals.

Whilst I’m on one, the graphic posted by @coys200 is useless by itself. Imagine Kane and Son are swapping positions all game. The graphic would show their average position as being on top of each other even though they never once lived in the same space. Average positions don’t tell you about the types of runs made or movement. Very blunt instrument.

That's a good post, apart from the need to insult another member which is why it didn't get a like.

I'm getting pissed off with people being rude to each other on here, it's possible to debate and disagree without resorting to such behaviour.

It's indicative of social media and society as a whole.

sausage · Oct 30, 2019

dudu said:
Right or wrong, your saying to sit back and counter Liverpool was not an intended setup for them?

More that we did nothing to our shape to combat their full backs for the billionth time

dimiSpur · Oct 30, 2019

sausage said:
From what I have witnessed, MP seems to have a weird thing about other teams tactics. It's like he doesn't feel like he should have to change the team to adapt to the opposition, and they should have to adapt to his tactics.

One thing which (I would be amazed if people denied it) that has been consistent over his tenure has been either not seeing, or completely ignoring, the tactical setups he could employ that would stifle the opposition. You see it in the threads here where people are like "we should do this to stop their one trick thing" and we do the opposite. The examples would be numerous, but I think I could count on one hand (out of some 200 matches he's had now) where we actually looked like we were set up to exploit something about the other team.

That's what annoys me, and I've give up hope of that changing - we're 5 years in, and it doesn't look like something that he will ever do with us.

He does frequently pick sides and/or set-ups that find me in disagreement. Eriksen vs. Robertson was a terrible mistake. Picking a predominantly attacking player to "do a job" when there are serious question marks about his overall commitment was a very questionable decision. Indeed Robertson did exploit that and created space for himself on numerous occasions, without hurting us with an end result.

A lack of tactical awareness isn't the nail in a coffin for an astute manager. Take Fergie, he used to surround himself with tactical minds and focussed himself more on the man-management and club-running, a sort of final decision maker. You would hope Poch would understand that he needs some help tactically too. Take the Bayern game. It took them 30 minutes to work us out and then it was a horrow-show. We did not adapt after that.

I'd like to see him bring in someone who could help him to that end.

Shadydan · Oct 30, 2019

LeParisien said:
That is not true. You are drawing strong conclusions based off limited knowledge. Not as bad as @whitesocks whos made the incredible claim that he doubts Poch ever talks about tactics. Incredible because it advertises his bombastic stupidity.

The game plan for Eriksen and Son was shown clearly on french tv (which like the rest of the tv in France is far more thoughtful than in anglophone countries). They were asked to track the fullback when Liverpool were attacking down that wing. However when the ball was on the other flank Son and Eriksen were asked to tuck inside almost to halfway and block passing lanes. Liverpool did well to switch play by knocking a series of perfect 50 yard balls but it did slow their play down.

The key benefit of this tactic was to help in transition. From the first few seconds this inside position would provide triangles in the middle that would help us break at pace. If eg Eriksen had been over on the opposite flank then he would have been a long way from the ball if we won it back in the middle.

It was a fairly effective strategy and didn’t result in us conceding any goals.

Whilst I’m on one, the graphic posted by @coys200 is useless by itself. Imagine Kane and Son are swapping positions all game. The graphic would show their average position as being on top of each other even though they never once lived in the same space. Average positions don’t tell you about the types of runs made or movement. Very blunt instrument.

It couldn't have been an effective strategy considering the amount of chances we gave to them.

Gb160 · Oct 30, 2019

Lighty64 said:
yes he said at an awards ceremony that one day he might manage RM (The biggest club in the world), but never used the word WANT.

He knows how the press will spin this though Lighty, he should dismiss it completely if he doesn't want the job, like other top managers do.

How would you feel if Harry Kane came out and said the same?
As a player taking wages from our club, I'd be fuming.

Archibald&Crooks · Oct 30, 2019

I think WAY too much importance is attached to what managers say in press conferences. Some handle them well, some not so much.

We saw this with Redknapp, it got to the stage where literally everything he said was pounced on, spun to suit or he got hammered for it. It got ridiculous and that's how it's getting now, although admittedly, the bloke did love a camera.

So, he's to pick the team SC wants, play the tactics SC wants, sell or sign the players SC wants and every question he answers should also be answered how SC wants.

I reckon we should petition Levy to rotate us as manager, give us a week each.

We'd be perfect wouldn't we

Wouldn't we? :cautious:

LeParisien · Oct 30, 2019

McFlash said:
That's a good post, apart from the need to insult another member which is why it didn't get a like.

I'm getting pissed off with people being rude to each other on here, it's possible to debate and disagree without resorting to such behaviour.

It's indicative of social media and society as a whole.

Youre right. I get frustrated with the level of vitriol directed at experts in society. People with no experience or insight loudly and emotionally accuse people at the top of their game of being as ignorant and motivated as they are.

That does not excuse the insults and thank you for calling me out.

Shadydan said:
It couldn't have been an effective strategy considering the amount of chances we gave to them.

Liverpool are the best team in club football right now. We had two chances to go 2-0 up at their ground that were better than any chance they had that they didn’t score and created many more on top.

We weren’t perfect but then we had rose and aurier at fullback against a team that can hurt you from anywhere. I don’t think we can pin that on Eriksen or Sons defensive efforts..

dudu · Oct 30, 2019

dimiSpur said:
He does frequently pick sides and/or set-ups that find me in disagreement. Eriksen vs. Robertson was a terrible mistake. Picking a predominantly attacking player to "do a job" when there are serious question marks about his overall commitment was a very questionable decision. Indeed Robertson did exploit that and created space for himself on numerous occasions, without hurting us with an end result.

A lack of tactical awareness isn't the nail in a coffin for an astute manager. Take Fergie, he used to surround himself with tactical minds and focussed himself more on the man-management and club-running, a sort of final decision maker. You would hope Poch would understand that he needs some help tactically too. Take the Bayern game. It took them 30 minutes to work us out and then it was a horrow-show. We did not adapt after that.

I'd like to see him bring in someone who could help him to that end.

Lets look at how many crosses Robertson actually played into the box? 5 the whole game and not really that many from where he loves to whip it in and create havoc. He got space where it didn't really matter, like you say.

TAA Actually was much more dangerous than with much more time and space to do damage than him on the other wing. I think Son on the left was a much worse choice and caused us much more issues but I know that doesn't fit the narrative of absolute hatred toward Eriksen at the moment.

I also undertsand the point still stands about Poch. He can and has made astue changes to change things up and get us back into games in the past, take liverpool last year, starting with a 3 in the back and after what 15, 20 mins, reverting to a back 4 and getting us back into the game.

He certainly needs to do better, he can, I've seen it. If he doesn't start doing things like that again he will be gone pretty soon.

Stamford · Oct 30, 2019

dudu said:
I think Son on the left was a much worse choice and caused us much more issues but I know that doesn't fit the narrative of absolute hatred toward Eriksen at the moment.

There is no agenda, he's just played poorly for ages. It's not some grand conspiracy

Deleted member 29446 · Oct 30, 2019

McFlash said:
That's a good post, apart from the need to insult another member which is why it didn't get a like.

I'm getting pissed off with people being rude to each other on here, it's possible to debate and disagree without resorting to such behaviour.

It's indicative of social media and society as a whole.

Welcome to the internet. It's really a sad trend.

Only thing we can do on SC is to try an stop it on here.

You should see other communities it's disgusting.

LeParisien · Oct 30, 2019

Stamford said:
There is no agenda, he's just played poorly for ages. It's not some grand conspiracy

That is true but I think the point that he was making is that just because he’s been shit for a year doesn’t mean
1) Everything he does is shit
2) Everything is his fault

Stamford · Oct 30, 2019

LeParisien said:
That is true but I think the point that he was making is that just because he’s been shit for a year doesn’t mean
1) Everything he does is shit
2) Everything is his fault

Currently 99 percent of what he does is shit. His cowardly back pass to the centre backs when tanguy set us off showed that. Definitely not all his fault however, he just happens to epitomise everything wrong with spurs at the moment, on and off the pitch.

dudu · Oct 30, 2019

Stamford said:
There is no agenda, he's just played poorly for ages. It's not some grand conspiracy

He was genuinely not as bad defensively as people are making out on Sunday. He helped force Robertson to the byline which stopped him from crossing from where he is dangerous.

He was shit on the ball but so was everyone. Alli had a 50% pass completion in the first half but everyone is saying it was ok cos he worked hard.

There is a bias, which I get but it can get in the way of the truth sometimes.

Shadydan · Oct 30, 2019

Eriksen shouldn't have been on the pitch in the first place. That's the actual point.

dudu · Oct 30, 2019

Shadydan said:
Eriksen shouldn't have been on the pitch in the first place. That's the actual point.

We normally agree on a lot but the point was that Eriksen should not have been tracking Robertson. I laid out a perfectly reasonable argument to show that he didn't actually do as bad a job at it as people are making out and he likely did what was asked of him which was stop him from crossing from where he likes to and help get him to the byline.

Everlasting Seconds · Oct 30, 2019

sausage said:
From what I have witnessed, MP seems to have a weird thing about other teams tactics. It's like he doesn't feel like he should have to change the team to adapt to the opposition, and they should have to adapt to his tactics.

I completely disagree with this. The problem isn't his intention nor willingness, it is is capability. He does try to set up the team differently, he is just not very good at it, and he doesn't seem to be able to learn.

Everlasting Seconds · Oct 30, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
So, he's to pick the team SC wants, play the tactics SC wants, sell or sign the players SC wants and every question he answers should also be answered how SC wants.

I reckon we should petition Levy to rotate us as manager, give us a week each.

We'd be perfect wouldn't we

Wouldn't we?

You jest, but at least we'd pick up more points than one a match.

Shadydan · Oct 30, 2019

dudu said:
We normally agree on a lot but the point was that Eriksen should not have been tracking Robertson. I laid out a perfectly reasonable argument to show that he didn't actually do as bad a job at it as people are making out and he likely did what was asked of him which was stop him from crossing from where he likes to and help get him to the byline.

The point is why him?

What did Eriksen do that was so special that anyone else couldn't have done?

Essentially Eriksen just became a body to carry out a certain defensive task but the quality on the ball and his composure was lacking, we knew that was the case because of his form this season due to his personal circumstances this season.

So forget the tactics and what the plan may have been I get it, the issue I have and I think a lot of fans have is the personel, all you're doing is giving people a reason to question you if you pick a player that doesn't want to be at the club and clearly shows no desire to play for Spurs.

And playing him over players who want to be at this club is just detrimental to the team and those players, he's not going to be here in 8 months so we should be planning for life without him, whether that means playing Lucas out there or Sissoko at least the players and fans will see what you're trying to do.

I'm.pretty sure people would have accepted the fact and been more understanding if we lost that game with the players who will take us forward.

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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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In the corner, eating crayons.

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There's always next year...

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Well done boys. Good process

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Wrong about everything

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