Jol finished 5th the past 2 seasons, i dont believe al lot of this stuff coming out about his training methods.
IMO our coaching cost us CL football, rather than gaining us UEFA.
Jol finished 5th the past 2 seasons, i dont believe al lot of this stuff coming out about his training methods.
IMO our coaching cost us CL football, rather than gaining us UEFA.
But then how do explain our results in comparison to Liverpools and Arsenals? It isn't fair to compare us with say Arsenal when our key players are injured. If you want to compare our results with those of Arseanls or Liverpools you can only do it when our key players are fit. For example of Leds is injured we don't have another world class CB, whilst Arsenal had Gallas and Toure. They didn't play a single game without either Gallas or Toure and played 21 with them both. Had we benefited from having Leds fit for every game, which is the equivalent of what Arseanl did, then averaging out from the 21 games he did play, it suggests we'd have finished on 68 pts last season and 74pts the season before. But even with Leds we weren't in strong as Arseanl yet we won more points. How can that be if the coaching is so bad? What does that say about Wenger, who many claim to be the best coach in the world?
To judge out coaching alongside teams like Arsenal you need to apply a realistic handicap (like in golf). Jol kicked Wengers ass over the last 2 seasons. When Jol had his genuine CL quality players fit (ie both Berbs and King playing), we averaged 2 pts per game, and this works out as 76 pts per season, which totally shits on both Arsenal and Liverpool last year. That is the problem we had, we were too reliant on certain players, whilst other squads had strength in depth in key positions. If our world class CB was injured we didn't have another, but Arsenal did. If Berbs got injured he was our only genius, whilst Arsenal had both Henry and RVP. If we swapped King for Gallas and Toure and Berbs for Henry and RVP, we'd have finished miles infront of Arsenal. The thing that cost us CL footbal, was not having enough genuine CL quality players. Arseanl had about 6 truely top class players, whilst we had 2. Therefore when they weren't fit we couldn't compete. When they were fit, we earned more points than them.
The flaw being that you assume that every player comes with a static number of qualities. In reality, as you know, every player develops his qualities. Wenger is the past master at getting good youngsters to blossom and fulfil their potential.
It's impossible to judge Jol however, for all we know he did get his players fulfilling their potential, it's just their optimum wasn't that high. Or it may be that he didn't get as much out of them as, for example, a Wenger would have.
There's no way of knowing and so once again the seemingly objective gets reduced to the subjective.
I believe Jol lacked the passion or rigour to be a top top coach. His rounded (no pun intended) personality which made him loved by fans and media indicates to me a lack of obsession with the game. By all accounts his training sessions were uninspiring, I think the players lack conditioning and I certainly never heard him scouring the world to get in the best back-room staff.
This coupled with a disinterest in the finer points of tactics and strategy combines to make Jol a second tier coach.
I believe Ramos to be a top tier coach like Wenger, Mourinho, SAF and Benitez.
But hey, that's just my opinion... lol.
But what is that opinion based on? You've been making positive sounds about Ramos since the story broke about us meeting with him at the start of the season, yet you've demonstrated little knowledge of his past and never really said why you think he'd be a good coach for us.
Also, rather than attempt to explain how Jol (a second tier coach), managed to obtain a higher points total, when Leds was fit, than Arsene Wenger, you've just tried to point out Jols faults. That is ignoring the facts and believing your own rhetoric (something you accussed me of doing). It's all about being comparative, which people have in general failed to do. Yes Jol makes mistakes and you've probably noted several and correctly. But don't believe that it makes him a poor coach. If you watch other "top" coaches you'd see similar mistakes. For example, if Wenger didn't make mistakes, or Benitez didn't make mistakes, then how do explain the fact thay only finished on 8 pts more than us last season? Considering the superiority if their squads, surley that isn't enough? It just seems that you've spotted some faults and got hung up on them and lost sight of what really has happened over the last 2 seasons. Is it not a simpe case of you over complicating the situation. At least the argument that injuries to key players cost us can be backed up with significant data (over two seasons). Whilst your theories of poor tactics, conditioning and staff are pretty hard to substantiate.
Was Jol the only coach at Spurs? I am pro Jol. I can't even mention "you know who" without getting threads deleted or the clique messing with me.
IMO if Jol had better help from the ground up we would have been 4th and the young players we have got in over the past 3 years would have developed into better players to help us get 4th
And more importantly Jol would still be with us and the board would not be tainted.
I do however think that the board got in the right man if Jol had to go (which he didnt, CC and Seggers did)
Cups are better than stats. Winning cups and being ranked as top team in the world with a "minnow" team is also a nice stat.
Do you not rate him as a coach?
But what is that opinion based on? You've been making positive sounds about Ramos since the story broke about us meeting with him at the start of the season, yet you've demonstrated little knowledge of his past and never really said why you think he'd be a good coach for us.
I work as a Trading Manager for a sports analyst company.Also, rather than attempt to explain how Jol (a second tier coach), managed to obtain a higher points total, when Leds was fit, than Arsene Wenger, you've just tried to point out Jols faults.
It is what I think, but I could be wrong.your theories of poor tactics, conditioning and staff are pretty hard to substantiate.
I rate him highly as a coach, very highly. However, I'm not sure he's a wise appointment for us. I rated and still rate the coaching abilities of Javier Irureta, Hector Cuper and Raynald Denoueix. But they are all further proof to argument that good coaching isn't enough. It has to be good coaching in the right environment with the right players. Whatever Ramos has won, is totally insignificant to what Cappello has won, yet I'm very pleased we didn't appoint Cappello. I just think we need to look further than the CV.
But isn't a good coach pretty much all we need when Ledders gets back?
IMO we have have had a CL quality squad skills wise for the past 3 seasons.
We were scuppered just as much by bad man management as we were by the "soft center" coaching staff.
Time will tell, and while I am angry at what happened to Jol, I don't think Ramos is a step backwards.
We need to do well in the Prem right? Well Sevilla beat us. We are a Prem team. He knows how to slam us Brits. Just look at what Sevilla did to Middlesborough. Once his mantra is drilled into the Spurs players, the away draw he got for us against them could be transformed into a win next season.
Basically Ramos didn't beat Spurs or Boro. Teams coached by him did. That doesn't mean he can turn any team into a "Ramos" team. Like any coach, he needs the right players. I see little correlation between the group of players Ramos had at Seville and those he has just inherited. I see little correlation between the players Monchi liked to bring to Seville and Comolli has so far brought to Spurs. There will be cross over examples, but I'm talking the core group. For Ramos to be successful (ie top 4) I think it is going to need a lot of changes. I think there were other options (if they had to sack Jol) that made more sense, but perhaps didn't offer the same "tabloid" or "marketing" appeal Ramos did. Basically i see him as more of a Plc choice than a pure football choice.
Nope. RAMOS beat us. We had better players in most positions than his team.
One of their best players was a Spurs reject.
He can polish/nurture average players into bigger and better things.