Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele
- Thread starter dtxspurs
- Start date
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
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Well we can all see that there's an issue but we don't know the reasons behind it, or if they're resolvable.
-Afri-Coy-
Well-Known Member
- Jun 26, 2012
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No one is going to pay us what we've spent on him or pay his wages, the footballing world is skint. This is purely wishful thinking until the crowds and revenue has substantially increased and he's not that bad that we should be willing to take a loss on him.
I keep seeing the same thing in the Kane thread in regards to accepting whatever is on the table so we can use it elsewhere but we simply can't afford to take hits all over the park financially just because we want to move on from certain players. We also lost a ton of revenue due to covid and money certainly doesn't grow on trees for us.
Sometimes you have no choice but to stick with it.
kremlyn
Well-Known Member
- Jul 30, 2004
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Arrogance is an interesting word isn't it?
It means the absence of asking questions.
You can usually see it in effect when a speaker bandies about statements, often derogatory, as fact. This is often when their world view has been challenged and they attack because they can't defend. They don't have real arguments or logic to support them so use slurs or inflammatory language in order to detail others. What they are actually spouting is gossip and cliché.
If you did ask questions they mught include:
1. Who is spreading the rumours about his discontent?
2. Who stands to gain if he moves?
3. Is publically demeaning the value of a club asset going to help the club or the player?
4. Has every avenue been exhausted to support the player?
5. If Davinson, Eric, Bergwijn and Dele can turn it around under new management can Tanguy?
6. Does he have grounds for feeling maltreated?
If you form an opinion having really considered this then it's a reasonably considered opinion.
If you just trot out unsubstantiated or conjectural statements then that's arrogance. You presume to know what you can't possibly know. You don't know who he is, what he's been through, what he could become but you know he's a waste of space, a rebel, a cancer, a drain, too fat, too weak, too slow, too lazy, moaning, miserable, stealing a living, robbing us blind, selfish and, of course, arrogant.
Also, just because some people agree with or like these arguments doesn't make them true or acceptable. It just means you're on the Internet.
But yeah, sure. He's arrogant.
dSSAbr
Well-Known Member
- Jul 11, 2020
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Was so excited when we signed him, i had worries about his work rate, but i always told myself that the PL spotlight would be a motivation for him, but i guess that is not the case. I guess the best move would be to loan him somewhere in Italy or Spain due to the lower tempo of the game, Monaco could be a safe option too.
Ron Burgundy
SC Supporter
- Jun 19, 2008
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I just can't help thinking this is correct. On a technical level, there's no way any of yesterday's midfield starters are anywhere near Tanguy...not even close.
But would we have won yesterday with him in the team? I'm not sure we would. It was the unified fight that really got us through that.
The grain of hope - and why I'm not throwing in the towel right this instant - is that I'd hope there's a 'horses for courses' type argument.
Maybe for certain teams, who will line up more defensively, he could play a role?
But I'm pretty worried that his time here will badly fizzle out. What a shame that would be
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
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That is such a good line.
Huddlebone
Well-Known Member
- Aug 10, 2012
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I see it from the perspective from the day he joind until now, there is always the same. He had more time than any other player with players like Dele who you can see major differences in how his body look, but tanguy no... same thing reapeat (not ready) that is the main point here. He had 3months off to sort himself out if he really was commited.
Secondly, you say there is just "twitter rumours" even in the latest training vids you can compare his body to everybody else and you see a major difference and ITKs has confirmed he wants out because of his mates.... FFS are we at kindergarten ?
But why has every manager even when he was at guingamp said he has problem keeping fitness levels.... That is nothing new. He is weak wanted out first thing after some weeks with Poch and thats not "twitter news"
Time to move on.
dontcallme
SC Supporter
- Mar 18, 2005
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True. At this stage at best I could see Ndombele being a sub to help break down teams in the last 20 minutes.
Not enough from a record signing but might be the best we can do this season.
-Afri-Coy-
Well-Known Member
- Jun 26, 2012
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There seems to be a lot of hostility in your replies, and you haven't really addressed anything I've said in my response other than the twitter thing so I think we will just leave it here.
But please try respect others opinions and reframe from the name calling, it's unnecessary.
Timberwolf
Well-Known Member
- Jan 17, 2008
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I get your point but if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, etc.
I don't know Tanguy. I've never met the bloke - he might be a top class fella and he certainly comes across like fun on social media. None of us truly know what he's actually like, and maybe, as you say, it's wrong to call him 'arrogant' in particular, as personally I've not seen any evidence of that specific trait so I'm with you there.
However, when a player with a chartered history of commitment and fitness issues (https://talksport.com/football/5891...uy-ndombele-premier-league-tottenham-hotspur/) - "He had a hard time waking up in the mornings, he was overweight and didn’t always present himself seriously." - continues to display commitment and fitness issues for the 3rd season in a row... maybe... just maybe...he simply is a bit lazy and doesn't have a great attitude. Occam's Razor and all that.
Can you really blame people on a fan forum for being pissed off that their record signing on 200k p/w can't even get himself fit enough to play in a single pre-season friendly? I'd say it's the most rational response to be honest.
Now I'm not saying we should submit him to personal abuse or call him arrogant but equally I don't think we need people endlessly bending over backwards giving him the benefit of the doubt. While none of know the full story I think there's more than enough evidence to reasonably conclude that he probably isn't some misunderstood pariah, and most likely simply is just a bit lazy and lacking commitment.
Could well be a top bloke though.
Or a duck.
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Nebby
Well-Known Member
- Dec 27, 2013
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Some players don't do well on foreign soil. And I guess the only way to know is to try. He's been here a while now, and unless there's a marked improvement in attitude and application this season, it's hard to see how he justifies a place in the squad. Having bags of talent is of zero benefit to the team if he isn't able to cope with the rigours and pace of the PL.
ButchCassidy
Well-Known Member
- Jul 12, 2012
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So (from what I can tell) Tanguy’s turned up and Nuno took one look at him and said “no no no, you’re out of shape, we’ll have to put you on a separate program for a while to build up your fitness.”
I get the disappointment (even anger) in a footballer not turning up ready to play. It’s worse when it’s a high wage player, and one that people had high hopes for.
But…
what is the bloody point of popping in here every day-and-a-half to go “STILL NO NDOMBELE?!?!” Your opinion from a week ago is still valid. He’s out of shape, and it has to be fixed through training - probably weeks of it. There is no magic button he can press to be ready again.
I get the disappointment (even anger) in a footballer not turning up ready to play. It’s worse when it’s a high wage player, and one that people had high hopes for.
But…
what is the bloody point of popping in here every day-and-a-half to go “STILL NO NDOMBELE?!?!” Your opinion from a week ago is still valid. He’s out of shape, and it has to be fixed through training - probably weeks of it. There is no magic button he can press to be ready again.
kremlyn
Well-Known Member
- Jul 30, 2004
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So good!
He's a duck then.
Not an albatross, a duck.
I like ducks. Difficult to trust as they're mostly quackers.
kent brockman
Beware of the Daviesaurus
- Sep 1, 2012
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Whereas I agree with that, we probably will need a different template against the lower-table teams that park the bus.
Not saying that Ndom would be the answer, but we will need a bit more skill to open those teams up.
Hoddle&Waddle
Well-Known Member
- Nov 25, 2012
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The issue is hes completed 90 mins once in about 2 years.
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
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So the club/management need to work out why and try to resolve it.
Like Lukaku at Utd looking unfit and overweight, which turned out to be an undiagnosed stomach issue. I'm not saying that's the case here but he was getting some pelters at Man U st one stage, for being fat and unfit.
I suppose the bottom line at the moment is that Tanguy is on a big wage and we spent big money getting him. Chances are that we're not getting that back in the current climate so we need to get him playing.
If that means taking a few weeks to get his mind and body straight, then I'll wait.
It's disappointing but I'm not going to start slinging mud at him in here, instead, I'm going to hope he improves.
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Revo19
Member
- Aug 15, 2013
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I think he’s simply 2-3 weeks behind the pre-season schedule and Nuno is putting him through a personalised regime with a specific role in mind for him. He clearly wasn’t fit enough but heard early in pre-season the same was for Sessegnon too.
Absolutely zero credible reports of him departing other than Twitter rumours and no links to other clubs. There are links to Sanchez leaving along with Sissoko and Aurier has said he wants out - doesn’t look likely Tanguy will leave permanently. He’s getting exposure from the club on social media which is far more than Sissoko, Aurier and Winks for example, which is a positive sign if anything.
He was similarly criticised last season and overcame all of it to be a essential component in the first team under Mourinho who publicly criticised him - winning over the fans and Mourinho takes an element of strong mentality. Think a lot of his issues are related to adapting to the country and he’s perhaps not a naturally fit player which counts against him during off season.
Think patience is required and Nuno has just started so will have that with him to get him up to his required standard.
Absolutely zero credible reports of him departing other than Twitter rumours and no links to other clubs. There are links to Sanchez leaving along with Sissoko and Aurier has said he wants out - doesn’t look likely Tanguy will leave permanently. He’s getting exposure from the club on social media which is far more than Sissoko, Aurier and Winks for example, which is a positive sign if anything.
He was similarly criticised last season and overcame all of it to be a essential component in the first team under Mourinho who publicly criticised him - winning over the fans and Mourinho takes an element of strong mentality. Think a lot of his issues are related to adapting to the country and he’s perhaps not a naturally fit player which counts against him during off season.
Think patience is required and Nuno has just started so will have that with him to get him up to his required standard.
arthurgrimsdell
Well-Known Member
- Feb 16, 2004
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Arrogance does not mean the absence of asking questions.
The OED defines arrogant as: (of a person, attitude etc) aggressively assertive or presumptuous, overbearing - Arrogance - (Noun).
From what I have seen of Tanguy N'Dombele, I would not describe him as aggressively assertive or overbearing, indeed I'd say that on the pitch he is nowhere near assertive enough, and often appears to be looking for places to hide, but I'd suggest there is more than a hint of presumptuousness. He presumes he does not need to be match fit to perform. He presumes that it is unfair that he should be put through gruelling fitness programmes (as when he wanted to leave the Club when Pochettino put him through hard graft). He presumes that it is unfair that his friends may be sold to other clubs. He presumes that he does not need to close down either players or spaces when he is in a competitive match. He presumes that if he can't get through a physical challenge it must be because he is fouled, and he presumes he can either lie down or sit with his arms in the air rather than tracking back to retrieve the ball. That is not assertive, it is whingeing.
Frankly from what I have seen so far, Tanguy N'Dombele is a prodigiously talented waste of space.
The solution is not to explore any and every avenue to support him more than he has been to date, it is for him to make himself undroppable.
If he stays then a massive improvement will be needed. He may turn it around, but it is up to him to do so.
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