Player Watch: Emerson Royal

vegassd · Nov 15, 2022

PeeEyeEmPee said:
Replace Spence's name in that sentence with any other name, and it would still be true though. We could still lose a game on any given day. In what way would Spence make us likelier to lose than Emerson though? What is it we lose when Emerson is not on the pitch? And against those, it's only fair to also ask could Spence make us likelier to win on any given day? Could he give us something Emerson doesn't?

I'm not advocating for Spence to suddenly be given the role, but I don't agree that he just absolutely can't be risked

But this is the problem... you have decided that there is nothing to lose by playing Spence, but that idea isn't true. If Spence is not doing the right things in training, and if his inclusion would make the rest of the team have to operate differently, then there is the risk that we don't perform as well.

And I'm not saying for one moment that playing Spence instantly makes us a worse team either. My lack of insight cuts both ways. However, what I can do is judge Conte by his words, by his actions and by his track record, and that makes me think that Conte sees Spence as more of a risk than the other two for the moment.

As a fan, I would personally love to see Spence play more because he seems like an exciting player. But I don't see him on the training ground. I am not dictating the patterns of play and have no idea how well Spence is executing those plans. Conte does.

The plain fact of this all is that Conte does know better than any of us. It doesn't mean that Conte thinks Royal is an amazing RWB... just that between Royal and Doherty he is getting more of what he is asking for than he is of Spence right now. Royal is a known factor, and in Conte's mind it would appear that he relies on that more than whatever talent and contribution Spence gives.

I have never said that Spence "absolutely can't be risked" and I don't think many people have. What I am saying is what Conte said over the summer when asked how he was going to keep so many players happy - he said it was the job of the players to make him happy. That's the bottom line. Spence has not impressed Conte enough yet to elevate him above Royal and Doherty.

Trix · Nov 15, 2022

Blake Griffin said:
you seriously think that had we not signed spence then none of this would be happening?

the tide was already turning on emerson towards the end of last season. i'm sure you read the posts in here, it was only a matter of time that those same thoughts would manifest themselves as groans on a matchday. it's ramped up now because fans are a) unhappy with the overall performances the team have been putting in and b) emerson is still not very good.

i don't like the booing and the sarcastic cheering, in fact i find it embarrassing and uncomfortable but there's no need for mental gymnastics here. the fans just don't rate emerson and are letting him know that. it has nothing to do with djed spence - the only reason his name comes up is because those fans just want someone that isn't emerson.

Again I'll refer you to the Udoggie situation where a number of posters are already seemingly having him as the starting LWB next season. SC has always loved a scapegoat, and right now that is Emerson despite others playing no better than he is. But you are right in what you say, some had already made their minds up last seasonn so he's on a hiding to nothing. His introduction against Marseille changed the game imo and gave us balance that was missing until he came on, yet the same section of posters still just slagged him off. It is a shame when supporters can't look at players objectively and can't base their opinions on what is actually in front of them rather than preconceived ideas.

McFlash · Nov 15, 2022

Time for Heroes said:
Here's a thought. How do the fans let Conte know that he is an idiot for keep picking Emerson?

Maybe think about that before moaning about the sarcastic cheers

And some thoughts should be kept to yourself.
What a ridiculous take on things.

McFlash · Nov 15, 2022

Time for Heroes said:
Feelings mutual buddy. BTW can Trix be banned for calling me a moron?

I received a similar ban last week and presume we treat everyone equally.

Now, I'm just catching up on this thread but I have a feeling that @Trix might actually be right...you seem to be doing your best to prove that he is!

chrisd2k · Nov 15, 2022

bc205 said:
Mate there are plenty of critical posts in here that hevn't been negged. You are misframing why your posts have been negged. The post that i negged and responded to from you was one where you clearly minimised the abuse that Emerson received. The other post i saw negged was when you responded to a concern that Emerson is receiving the majority of abuse, despite not being the only poor performer, by just stating that he has been consistently poor all season.

I don't think it is particularly surprising that you are being negged for those posts. Maybe you should reflect a bit more on this before playing the victim card.

That's such bollocks. I've made numerous posts about the booing. I just didn't think I had to say it again after every post. Look through the thread it's quite clear. I'm not reacting to my posts I see others getting it. Meh

Trent Crimm · Nov 15, 2022

Nebby said:
Emerson (and Dier and Davies) is getting it because Arsenal are top of the table. A large chunk of our fan base is terrified that they will win the title, when we blew our best chance under Poch. We've had bad players before (certainly worse than Emerson), but they never got this amount of stick.

Nobody is getting moaned at because of what Arsenal are doing. Jesus.

Next you’ll be saying you had bad sex/meal/nights sleep etc bc of Arsenal. Literally the dog ate my homework version of why players are getting rough treatment.

edit. If Arsenal bother you that much that you need to shout at Emerson , Davies et Al. Then I suggest therapy or a home in the woods.

chrisd2k · Nov 15, 2022

Trix said:
Are you sure the neg reps just because of that?

Not referring to just mine. But please carry on with the insults ?

bc205 · Nov 15, 2022

chrisd2k said:
That's such bollocks. I've made numerous posts about the booing. I just didn't think I had to say it again after every post. Look through the thread it's quite clear. I'm not reacting to my posts I see others getting it. Meh

Sure, aside from the post where you minimised the abuse.

Which posts were you reacting to then? Aside from yours, the only ones i've seen recently get multiple negs were ones that minimised or defended the abuse Emerson gets.

chrisd2k · Nov 15, 2022

bc205 said:
Sure, aside from the post where you minimised the abuse.

Which posts were you reacting to then? Aside from yours, the only ones i've seen recently get multiple negs were ones that minimised or defended the abuse Emerson gets.

If you cant be bothered to look neither can I. I actually don't need the validation from strangers to check my own. I've seen it from others.
I'm out anyway but you feel free to continue

Trix · Nov 15, 2022

chrisd2k said:
Not referring to just mine. But please carry on with the insults ?

Wasn't an insult, and I don't know what posts or reps you are referring to. I'm just pointing out it might not purely because of the boo's and your post being negative towards Emerson.

ukdy · Nov 15, 2022

chrisd2k said:
It's interesting that any criticism of Emerson is now getting negged in here because of the boos in the stadium regardless of mentioning the booing in the post. Like you support booing because we need to upgrade him. There is a difference which people seem to be finding difficult.

Agreed mate, strongly. Waiting to see how long it takes the Emerson fan club to find this post. Emerson (despite his positive effort levels) is not the player we need, he was signed for a different manager, for a different position. Even though he's got 40+ games for Spurs under his belt as a RWB he's not adapted and learned the role. He's got a lot of mistakes in him, and his skill level is certainly not worth £25m.

bc205 · Nov 15, 2022

ukdy said:
Agreed mate, strongly. Waiting to see how long it takes the Emerson fan club to find this post. Emerson (despite his positive effort levels) is not the player we need, he was signed for a different manager, for a different position. Even though he's got 40+ games for Spurs under his belt as a RWB he's not adapted and learned the role. He's got a lot of mistakes in him, and his skill level is certainly not worth £25m.

No one here has said you can't criticise Emerson. I agree with a lot of what you just said. All people here have said is that they are not prepared anymore to tolerate the abuse and bullying that Emerson regularly receives.

But you know all of this already. You're just still upset and sulking because you were rightly criticised for minimising and defending the bullying and abuse. So instead of reflecting upon why you were criticised, you're just back in here whining again.

PLTuck · Nov 15, 2022

bubble07 said:
The booing did work once when lucas was boo'd off during the 0-3 v United. That along with negative ENIC chants resulted in Nuno going the following day

But booing at half time simply because the team is losing or even drawing is pathetic. If its done all the time it also loses its value which then makes it pointless

Did it though?

Or was it that the board realised they'd made a huge error, Conte changed his mind since the summer and was now open to joining, and it happening after a match with loud boos was a coincidence?

correlation <> causation and all that.

chrisd2k · Nov 15, 2022

bc205 said:
No one here has said you can't criticise Emerson. I agree with a lot of what you just said. All people here have said is that they are not prepared anymore to tolerate the abuse and bullying that Emerson regularly receives.

But you know all of this already. You're just still upset and sulking because you were rightly criticised for minimising and defending the bullying and abuse. So instead of reflecting upon why you were criticised, you're just back in here whining again.

Erm... do you think you're talking to me? ? Shouldn't take away from a good speech though. Hope that made you feel good inside

bc205 · Nov 15, 2022

chrisd2k said:
Erm... do you think you're talking to me? ? Shouldn't take away from a good speech though. Hope that made you feel good inside

No mate. I was replying to UKDY, as my post clearly states. I thought you were 'out' anyway?

As you're still here though, found any of those other posts yet?

chrisd2k · Nov 15, 2022

bc205 said:
No mate. I was replying to UKDY, as my post clearly states. I thought you were 'out' anyway?

As you're still here though, found any of those other posts yet?

Ok buddy strange though that second paragraph but coolsies

PeeEyeEmPee · Nov 15, 2022

vegassd said:
But this is the problem... you have decided that there is nothing to lose by playing Spence, but that idea isn't true. If Spence is not doing the right things in training, and if his inclusion would make the rest of the team have to operate differently, then there is the risk that we don't perform as well.

And I'm not saying for one moment that playing Spence instantly makes us a worse team either. My lack of insight cuts both ways. However, what I can do is judge Conte by his words, by his actions and by his track record, and that makes me think that Conte sees Spence as more of a risk than the other two for the moment.

As a fan, I would personally love to see Spence play more because he seems like an exciting player. But I don't see him on the training ground. I am not dictating the patterns of play and have no idea how well Spence is executing those plans. Conte does.

The plain fact of this all is that Conte does know better than any of us. It doesn't mean that Conte thinks Royal is an amazing RWB... just that between Royal and Doherty he is getting more of what he is asking for than he is of Spence right now. Royal is a known factor, and in Conte's mind it would appear that he relies on that more than whatever talent and contribution Spence gives.

I have never said that Spence "absolutely can't be risked" and I don't think many people have. What I am saying is what Conte said over the summer when asked how he was going to keep so many players happy - he said it was the job of the players to make him happy. That's the bottom line. Spence has not impressed Conte enough yet to elevate him above Royal and Doherty.

bib - I don’t recall saying that at all

There’s not really much point in having a discussion forum if the answer to absolutely everything is “because the manager said so, and I’d rather go on his opinion than yours”. I KNOW that Conte for whatever reason doesn’t think he’s ready, and I don’t claim to know better than he does....I’m just disagreeing and giving my reasons. Conte, like any other manager or expert in any profession, isn’t always right and isn’t above having his decisions questioned or critiqued, even by novices like myself. Managers get things wrong all the time, and I think persisting with Royal without giving other options a fair chance is wrong on his part. Does that mean I’m right? Do I think I know better than he does? Of course not. It’s simply my opinion.

Trix · Nov 15, 2022

chrisd2k said:
Erm... do you think you're talking to me? ? Shouldn't take away from a good speech though. Hope that made you feel good inside

Think you are getting a bit touchy here mate.

chrisd2k · Nov 15, 2022

Trix said:
Think you are getting a bit touchy here mate.

Fair enough. He was though ?

DarwinSpur · Nov 15, 2022

It's just fucking pathological now.

From where I was standing in the South, Emerson was one of our better players first half against Leeds. Fluffed goal aside he passed better and made less errors than many other more talented (and less derided players). His passing was good and incisive at times and he set us away several times.

The problem with this psychosis is that people are "blaming Conte for picking him". As far as I'm concerned, having watched every game and been to most at home, Emerson edges it over Doherty for mine (and I defended Doch a lot last season when the usual same suspects dug him out). Conte is picking him because he's the better option.

Spence is the unknown quantity but if you're booing a player because he's getting picked before someone you've only seen play 20 odd Premier league minutes then I'd suggest YOU are the twat in this situation.

If Doch plays anything like he did in that six game stretch last season before Cash fucked him, then and only then will I be puzzled as to why Conte picks Emerson over him. Right now it makes sense - because he's as good an option as any we have on our books.

Most embarrassing reaction I've seen amongst any supporter base let alone Spurs. You're diminishing the club and yourselves.

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