Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Trix said:

As I've said he was talking about a longer contract until the terms were changed......

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-Afri-Coy- said:

I wouldn't call what we've been seeing his style though.

I would call that bang average players showing their weaknesses and mentality that we've seen before under different managers.

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-Afri-Coy- said:

Teams that get outplayed and rolled over aren't in 5th place with 17 games played and only 2 points off top 4. Which should be our aim given the quality at hand.

I'm literally just going to post this as a response from now on, when it changes, I'll take these kind of arguments seriously. Results are all that matters.

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walworthyid said:

Perhaps. But many if the players are new, or played in the champions league final and got us qualified last season. It can't all be the players.

Do you think that Conte is doing a good job?

I'm a teacher, I have some good classes and a couple of awful ones. It's easier to teach the good ones, but I'm still expected to teach the awful ones to at least a minimal set of standards. I cant approach the 2 classes in the same way and I have to use my experience as a teacher to adapt my approach accordingly.

Its of course not the same as managing a football club, but conte should at least be able to adapt his approach to get the best out of what he has. Currently he is unwilling or unable to do that.

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Trix said:

No but what they have had is 3 years of rebuilding and stability under a project manager that most of their fans have been calling out for two seasons as not good enough. As I keep saying it's one way or the other and currently we are doing neither.

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wrd said:

I think the fact we are having the same two debates we had under end of days Poch, Jose and Conte which are; Is it the manager or the board, Do we want entertaining football or successful means that we keep looking at the problem incorrectly.

I think the issue isn't the manager or their style of football. It's that the fans and the board are simply unwilling to accept that in order to get to whatever it is we think we want, that things have to get worse before they get better, that we are too afraid to go through the painful process of that, we are impatient and want immediate gratification because we think we have suffered enough and we are owed some success now.

The evidence though would suggest that we have ended up making the process last longer, more painful in our desire to rush the process. We also are so scared of going through the painful process that we are too unafraid to let go of the other side of things. We hire Conte yet we are too scared to let go off our transfer policy. We back Poch but we are too afraid because he said it will take years to rebuild so we sack him and hire a manager who says he'll get it done quickly.

At what point do we realise that jumping from one extreme to the next is just delaying success further, that we are foolishly thinking we are wasting time if we stick through a painful period yet when you look at other clubs. Liverpool, seemingly Arsenal. They tolerated the growing pains, they tolerated the shouts from impatient fans and certainly Liverpool have been rewarded. Klopp has had 3 tough periods at Liverpool, when he started, just after their big success and earlier this season. With the latter 2, he was doing significantly worse than Poch was, do we think we'd have kept our nerve and been rewarded for doing so? Do we think our club would have tolerated those first few seasons under Arteta to get to what Arsenal are currently doing, their performances were awful to watch but Arteta stuck to his guns now their performances are superb, you learn most from your rivals.

I've made no secret that I absolutely adore Poch, that I felt he shouldn't have been sacked, that he should have been allowed a down season to recover from the champions league and we go again. That I wanted him back after Jose because I love the romanticism of him being the guy to lead us to the promise land. So it probably wouldn't be that hard for me to get over losing Conte if Poch returned, however I am absolutely adamant that if we for once just stuck with a manager through the hard times and took the risk of backing him despite fears of letting go off our policies and we actually allowed the man to feel safe and trusted in his process then we would get a team that is not only successful but is entertaining in it's own right, maybe not in the style of a Harry or Poch team but in it's own manner. I think us fans are unwilling to tolerate what that would entail though to get there though and it is us who will suffer the consequences in my opinion.

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IfiHadTheWings said:

This argument doesn’t really hold up, we haven’t beaten a half decent side all year.

We racked up points early on but our points have caught up with our performances and the gap between those above us is getting bigger, are you confident that we will be closer to those above us in our next 3 games?

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-Afri-Coy- said:

"Absolute Dross"

Yet after 60 games, we are only 0.18 ppm off his Inter, Chelsea and Juventus teams.

All three won titles with those PPM's.

But let's blame Conte.

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-Afri-Coy- said:

I think his options are so limited (see our bench on Sunday for example) that it leaves VERY little room for tactical maneuvering.

Injuries have played a part in this.

If we had more quality waiting in the wings I would whole heartedly agree.

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-Afri-Coy- said:

The same club philosophy that has won us a single trophy in almost 20 years?

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Danny1 said:

Exactly this. Anyone who uses Arsenal as an example is ignoring the cold hard facts. Arsenal have been poor for almost the entirety of Artetas reign but they continued to back him in every window with the players he wanted.

I am under no illusion that if we were to do the same with Conte we would be successful. However, the only thing I think that needs to happen is for both sides to commit. Conte to sign a long term deal and Levy to release the purse strings. Both of which I think are long shots unfortunately, as I think we would be on to a winner if both did this.

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walworthyid said:

Fantastic. It's all going according to plan. Stand down everybody.

Mate, football is played on a pitch not a spreadsheet. We are playing the worst football in the league and have gone behind in the last 10 games! It is literally dreadful. It is universally recognised as such by every pundit from here to Timbuktu! Perhaps we should all stop watching the matches and just look at the stats instead.

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agrdavidsfan said:

another part where I agree with you if we get rid of conte those players we have got rid of that we wanted out get another clean slate in a sense and that shouldn’t be happening as we know they aren’t at the level.

However, the more I look at it the more I don’t think we haven’t backed conte

Bentacur
Kuluveski
Udogie
Richarlison
Perisic
Bissouma
Romero made permanent
Even Spence cost 21 million if you include add ons

that’s a huge amount of players in and he hasn’t got the best out of any of them other than maybe Bentacur or Kulu he has to take some of the blame the team is under performing and he is the manager it’s as simple as that, would poch get better results out of these players I think he would, would Eddie Howe be getting the best out of these players yes.

if he is as great as he says he is he should be getting more out of them you can’t just demand players for a certain system management is about flexibility and doing the best with what you have available and he’s not doing that, you don’t want walk in to any job as a manager and just demand this and that you firstly you try and get the best out of what you already have then improve over time.

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allatsea said:

Nothing wrong with the Spence signing as long as it comes along with ready to play now PL quality players.

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-Afri-Coy- said:

it's not an argument, its a statistical fact. You literally cannot argue with me on this.

If's, And's or But's bear no relevance when you're talking about facts. Results are facts and the fact is we are 5th.

To your second point about our next 3 games, of course given our current form things aren't looking good.

That being said, we can win any game if the players decide to show up before we go a goal down.

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parj said:

The same playing style existed by the club that the club buys players for, yes. It's been the playing style of the club since Nicholson. It's it dead, no. Attacking football is very much alive and most successful teams are winning with it.

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