Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Martinhotspur · Jan 2, 2023

IfiHadTheWings said:
It’s shocking, these players have shown they crumble under pressure time and again which is why i think it’s absurd that we sit back and soak up pressure rather than just trying to keep the ball as far aw

SirHarryHotspur said:
Simple reason there were no attacking players on the bench yesterday is the fact that there are none available , Richy, Kulu & Lucas all injured.
Regardless of what people are saying about the younger players, none of the under 21's or youth academy attacking players are capable of stepping into the Premier League it's too much of a jump in class.

If Kulu is not available for the next match, just forfeit it. I cannot do another 90 minutes of zero creativity

Adam456 · Jan 2, 2023

Flobadob said:
We’re getting the results and performances that the players we have turning out for us should be getting. When you have Dier, Davies, Hojbjerg, Emerson/Doherty, Sessegnon/Perisic type players that should be playing for clubs placed 15th-8th in the league and the other 4-5 (Kane, Son, Romero, Bentancur, Kulusevski) should be playing for top 4 clubs, you’re a bit silly if you expect a better outcome than 6th-8th place. Conte’s 100% right yet again and he sees what a lot of people on here can’t grasp and that’s that we have a squad with far too many players that aren’t good enough. We routinely start matches with 4-5 players in our 11 that either aren’t good enough or aren’t suited to play his system to a top 4 level. We have so many players that seriously have no business being anywhere near top 4 level starting 11. It’s at least half our squad!

And yet, once more, other coaches manage to do this with much, much worse players

Why should he, the one and only A Conté, get a free pass ?

Dakes · Jan 2, 2023

wrd said:
I think the fact we are having the same two debates we had under end of days Poch, Jose and Conte which are; Is it the manager or the board, Do we want entertaining football or successful means that we keep looking at the problem incorrectly.

I think the issue isn't the manager or their style of football. It's that the fans and the board are simply unwilling to accept that in order to get to whatever it is we think we want, that things have to get worse before they get better, that we are too afraid to go through the painful process of that, we are impatient and want immediate gratification because we think we have suffered enough and we are owed some success now.

The evidence though would suggest that we have ended up making the process last longer, more painful in our desire to rush the process. We also are so scared of going through the painful process that we are too unafraid to let go of the other side of things. We hire Conte yet we are too scared to let go off our transfer policy. We back Poch but we are too afraid because he said it will take years to rebuild so we sack him and hire a manager who says he'll get it done quickly.

At what point do we realise that jumping from one extreme to the next is just delaying success further, that we are foolishly thinking we are wasting time if we stick through a painful period yet when you look at other clubs. Liverpool, seemingly Arsenal. They tolerated the growing pains, they tolerated the shouts from impatient fans and certainly Liverpool have been rewarded. Klopp has had 3 tough periods at Liverpool, when he started, just after their big success and earlier this season. With the latter 2, he was doing significantly worse than Poch was, do we think we'd have kept our nerve and been rewarded for doing so? Do we think our club would have tolerated those first few seasons under Arteta to get to what Arsenal are currently doing, their performances were awful to watch but Arteta stuck to his guns now their performances are superb, you learn most from your rivals.

I've made no secret that I absolutely adore Poch, that I felt he shouldn't have been sacked, that he should have been allowed a down season to recover from the champions league and we go again. That I wanted him back after Jose because I love the romanticism of him being the guy to lead us to the promise land. So it probably wouldn't be that hard for me to get over losing Conte if Poch returned, however I am absolutely adamant that if we for once just stuck with a manager through the hard times and took the risk of backing him despite fears of letting go off our policies and we actually allowed the man to feel safe and trusted in his process then we would get a team that is not only successful but is entertaining in it's own right, maybe not in the style of a Harry or Poch team but in it's own manner. I think us fans are unwilling to tolerate what that would entail though to get there though and it is us who will suffer the consequences in my opinion.

This is it 100%

Fidget · Jan 2, 2023

Trix said:
So what is? You've been one of the most vocal regarding Conte, so what do you want to see happen? How do we push on from this and get any success?

Do you think Conte has had long enough? I don’t and I don’t believe he has been given what was promised.
We need to buy another two players that Conte wants. If he signs a new contract, or not, then we still buy two more good players for money, then we carry on doing that whilst improving our academy. We need to break the cycle of permanent change. Build for the future, stop thinking that we’re just gonna start winning within a season. We all need to get a grip on reality.

Flobadob · Jan 2, 2023

Adam456 said:
And yet, once more, other coaches manage to do this with much, much worse players

Why should he, the one and only A Conté, get a free pass ?

How many of Villa’s players are much worse than Dier, Davies, Hojbjerg, Emerson/Doherty, Sessegnon/Perisic? Barely any of their starting 11 if you ask me. I’d take at least half their 11 over these players

ralphs bald spot · Jan 2, 2023

sidford said:
Don't think many fans at all want him back. Most people recognise that him coming back is just Levy taking the cheap option yet again. While I loved Poch he had huge flaws - stagnating youth players as he wouldn't play them or loan them out, terrible choice in signings, refusal to make subs, stubborn refusal to accept the diamond formation wasn't working etc.
Its easy to forgot those issues but they'll still be there. We will win nothing & end up back here in less than 3 seasons.

All he would do is buy Levy & Enic more time until they eventually sell up

disagree that most fans don't want him back in the ground there seems to be a lot of support for him coming back he wasn't perfect by any means who is but at least you went to games and some sense of fun its soul destroying watching the current team

Fidget · Jan 2, 2023

Adam456 said:
And yet, once more, other coaches manage to do this with much, much worse players

Why should he, the one and only A Conté, get a free pass ?

Just not true. We’re in a permanent mess. We are going theough top managers at a serious rate. What’s ‘a free pass’?

G Ron · Jan 2, 2023

Trix said:
No but I'd argue our defensive options certainly are.

Exactly, when you think two regular starters were only bench warmers during the Poch era I’m surprised more fans overlook how weak a position it is for us.

rossdapep · Jan 2, 2023

I think every one should remember that Conte was brought in to win.

And that Conte said almost immediately that the team was not good enough to win.

Unless Conte lied upon first inspection of the team, which I don't believe he did, someone is not holding up their end of the bargain.

Levy would certainly have told Conte, we need you to win. And Conte woukd surely have asked for serious backing in order to do that.

My worry

My feeling here is that Conte was thinking 4 or 5 Windows of significant change, whereas Levy was thinking 2 windows of significant backing and then back to doing things the way they prefer.

Fidget · Jan 2, 2023

ralphs bald spot said:
disagree that most fans don't want him back in the ground there seems to be a lot of support for him coming back he wasn't perfect by any means who is but at least you went to games and some sense of fun its soul destroying watching the current team

I think you got a very shady pair of sunglasses to look at Poch’s history here. He was very lucky with a lot of players coming to age at the same time and his style suited theirs. Then we sold most of the good ones.

spurs mental · Jan 2, 2023

ralphs bald spot said:
disagree that most fans don't want him back in the ground there seems to be a lot of support for him coming back he wasn't perfect by any means who is but at least you went to games and some sense of fun its soul destroying watching the current team

Have you forgotten the last 12 months(CL run aside where we lucked out) of Poch's tenure?

Metalhead · Jan 2, 2023

Adam456 said:
And yet, once more, other coaches manage to do this with much, much worse players

Why should he, the one and only A Conté, get a free pass ?

I'm not sure which club and players you refer to. It's been said many many times that no-one is delighted with the current style/performance from the players but the point that seems to be consistently missed is that no-one expects this to be the final end point of what he's trying to achieve and there is no sense in having him here and half heartedly backing him. The ultimate problem lies in the same issue that is played out over and over. The hierarchy wants to play with the big boys but can't match them. That is not Conte's fault.

ralphs bald spot · Jan 2, 2023

SirHarryHotspur said:
Simple reason there were no attacking players on the bench yesterday is the fact that there are none available , Richy, Kulu & Lucas all injured.
Regardless of what people are saying about the younger players, none of the under 21's or youth academy attacking players are capable of stepping into the Premier League it's too much of a jump in class.

he had six defenders on the bench yesterday he might as well have a kid on there you are not asking them to come on for a long period but to maybe have the option of a youngster coming on giving it his all for ten minutes and maybe having a moment - it certainly couldn't have been no worse than bringing on yet another defender when you are supposedly chasing the game

TOLBINY · Jan 2, 2023

Trix said:
So what is? You've been one of the most vocal regarding Conte, so what do you want to see happen? How do we push on from this and get any success?

I would find it hard to believe that Conte was promised unlimited financial backing - if he was and he doesn't get it - then he should walk.

It is worrying that after 13 months in charge we still cannot see consistent patterns of play. I think if we at least had that or a more solid defense, then there would be little doubt about continuing with Conte.

My instinct is to back a proven manager (Conte) as much as we can / dare financially until the end of the 2023/24 season at least - by which time he will have had over 2.5 years in charge, 5 transfer windows and two pre-seasons. He spoke about foundations in yesterday's post match presser, if he and the club are serious then he needs to be given the time.

HildoSpur · Jan 2, 2023

Adam456 said:
And yet, once more, other coaches manage to do this with much, much worse players

Why should he, the one and only A Conté, get a free pass ?

Not too many teams in this league with much, much worse players than us - outside of a few top class individuals we have.

ralphs bald spot · Jan 2, 2023

spurs mental said:
Have you forgotten the last 12 months(CL run aside where we lucked out) of Poch's tenure?

but to go to a Champions Leage Final what a day that was - going undefeated at home in the League whipping Dortmund Chelsea and Liverpool amongst others I think there are lot of us happy to take the risk

Flobadob · Jan 2, 2023

HildoSpur said:
Not too many teams in this league with much, much worse players than us - outside of a few top class individuals we have.

Literally Konsa, Watkins, Kamara, Digne, Bailey and Mcginn walk into the starting 11 we put out yesterday

Metalhead · Jan 2, 2023

ralphs bald spot said:
but to go to a Champions Leage Final what a day that was - going undefeated at home in the League whipping Dortmund Chelsea and Liverpool amongst others I think there are lot of us happy to take the risk

The final was terrible. It's not like Liverpool were even that great and it all went downhill from there.

IfiHadTheWings · Jan 2, 2023

Flobadob said:
Literally Konsa, Watkins, Kamara, Digne, Bailey and Mcginn walk into the starting 11 we put out yesterday

Watkins ahead of who?

walworthyid · Jan 2, 2023

ralphs bald spot said:
but to go to a Champions Leage Final what a day that was - going undefeated at home in the League whipping Dortmund Chelsea and Liverpool amongst others I think there are lot of us happy to take the risk

Absolutely

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