Match Threads Spurs vs Chelsea - Day 11

Romulus · Nov 7, 2023

ljinko888 said:
There was 24 seconds between Kulu getting in behind the Chelsea backline after a give and go with Hojbjerg and Udogie's second yellow card.

This is the risk versus reward of Ange's style of football. We created that opportunity at 10 vs 11 and if Kulu was confident on his weaker foot he puts that ball across towards Son. Instead he checked back on his left and was crowded out leading to this Chelsea breakaway.

I wish kulu got his head up and could use his right foot... it would be a tap-in for son

chas vs dave · Nov 7, 2023

Romulus said:
I wish kulu got his head up and could use his right foot... it would be a tap-in for son

That's not an easy pass.

The image of udogies tackle is quite damning. No need to go to ground.

Trent Crimm · Nov 7, 2023

rebrab said:
Hats off to dier. You don’t do that without massive balls, and he really tried to play like Ange wants. He’s had to turn up to training every day and keep working hard knowing he’s not first choice any more and seeing so much love go to everyone else. Yes he’s limited but he deserves some appreciation for turning up.

He does get paid handsomely for what is known as his job. He hasn’t invented a cure for a disease, walked across hot coals or stopped a conflict. You make it sound like we should be offering to wash his car for a year just for doing his job.

Freddie · Nov 7, 2023

midoshairband said:
that argument doesn't stack up for me pal. you say Chelsea were dumb amd inept, so yea, why should we have sat back?

the message Ange sends by playing like that down to 9 will stick with this squad, mark my words.

It makes sense to me. If a team has ten chances from a yard out but misses them all it doesn't suggest your defensive tactics are right. When you have 9 outfield players, playing a high line is brave, yes, but it's also suicidal. They were continually one pass away from being through on goal because we didn't have enough players to press them. They kept fucking that pass up, and not because we pressured them. Our lads did an excellent job to try and make it work but staying in the game was largely on Chelsea being shit. And if we sat deep and made them break us down I think they would have struggled.

Maybe Ange sent a message but there's no point being dogamtic with your system. You have to play the cards you're dealt. We'll now be without VdV, Romero and Udogie for our next game. If Ange continues with this 'message' of playing a high line with Dier, Royal and Davies we'll get battered. You simply have to adapt.

thePessimist · Nov 7, 2023

Generally thought ref/var did ok yesterday but the Son offside goal I was slightly unsure of (or maybe I’m remembering it wrong). Was he actually offside?

oobaties · Nov 7, 2023

Maybe Ange looked at Chelsea's attack, realised that their final passing and decision making was abysmal and decided to stick with the high line. Yes, high risk, but not in the slightest naive.

I also don't buy into this whole narrative of "if it was City or Liverpool, it would have been 7-8"

Without stating the obvious, It wasn't either of them. It was a poor Chelsea team. It's also highly, HIGHLY unlikely that this particular set of circumstances will happen again, especially against Liverpool or City.

It was a one-off freak game. Like nothing I've seen before. Ange knew it, the players knew it. They took a calculated one-off risk and by fuck, it almost paid off.

On the very slim chance we do ever find ourselves with 9-men against City/Pool, I'd be pretty sure Ange wouldn't be so gung-ho and our back line would drop a little more.

rossdapep · Nov 7, 2023

It is still a little foggy for me as I was looking after my son when it all kicked off but what were the checks for?

Offside from Caciedo's shot
Van De Ven's foul
Romero's foul

And am I right in stating that they checked them in a weird order?

If so, that shows VAR is not being usd properly.

Let's say, they pulled it back because they wanted to originally check the offside. Then in doing so, spotted Romero's tackle.

Is it right that they can then do that because I honestly think that opens a pandora's box.

Surely they should just be checking the original incident that led them to the VAR check and nothing else.

As Ange said, it just makes them forensically analyse everything which isn't necessary.

Pretty sure Ange was thinking 'just give the goal and let's go'. Hell, I am sure even Chelsea fans in that moment were thinking the same rather than anything else before it.

This is where I think things are messed up. We want to see a fair game and we want to see game flow.

If you were playing sunday league or with mates, you'd just say 'give the goal and let's continue', don't ruin it.

If we are being subjective, it is the smart thing to do. That way Chelsea get something deserved and the game doesn't get ruined by one going down to 10.

But with VAR we have to justify it and find the errors/fouls to punish them.

Look at offsides, we are talking about milimetres and in a lot of cases nothing in it. Son's goal was a beautiful goal and incredibly harshly judged off, yet he is barely in front of the defender. Here we are trying to find the smallest detail to cancel a goal.

And goals are where the fun is in the game.

It is totally backwards way of thinking and it's killing the spirit of the game.

I totally see reason for a dive/foul in the penalty area to be analysed if the ref gave it cause he may have made an error and it is worth checking. Can be done quite quickly too if you tell him to go straight to the screen.

But drawing the lines, checking a sequence of 3 incidents - I didn't sign up for this.

rossdapep · Nov 7, 2023

thePessimist said:
Generally thought ref/var did ok yesterday but the Son offside goal I was slightly unsure of (or maybe I’m remembering it wrong). Was he actually offside?

1 or 2 milimetres,

I hoenstly think they should get rid of the lines, or increase the difference to give benefit of doubt. Just use naked eye and tell the ref in 2-3 seconds, quick enough for it to not go to screen for everyone to see.

Some fantastic goals are being ruled out because the fabric of a striker's shirt is slightly in front. And in a lot of cases it is hard to tell.

thelak · Nov 7, 2023

Trent Crimm said:
He does get paid handsomely for what is known as his job. He hasn’t invented a cure for a disease, walked across hot coals or stopped a conflict. You make it sound like we should be offering to wash his car for a year just for doing his job.

Is this the Roy Keane impersonation thread?

spurs mental · Nov 7, 2023

Trent Crimm said:
He does get paid handsomely for what is known as his job. He hasn’t invented a cure for a disease, walked across hot coals or stopped a conflict. You make it sound like we should be offering to wash his car for a year just for doing his job.

Hes a human being too though, and been part of the club for nearly a decade. He has sat on the bench all season and came on last night in really difficult circumstances.

Look at the video of him walking in the other day to the training ground, hes been down on himself, evidently.

He could have easily put the bare minimum in and not been bothered, especially with what's been said about him by our own fans, probably even myself. But he did a job and he did it well.

Give him his dues. He deserves it

worcestersauce · Nov 7, 2023

jolsnogross said:
It's not hard at all, IMO, but he could undermine that concept by ensuring we played like lambs to the slaughter. A high line tactic only works when opponents dont have all the time in the world to look up and pass it about. It's just dumb when there's no way to pressure the ball with two men fewer. And watching chelsea taking the ball into the net with a series of 2 on 1s was a bit undignified and not helping the concept at all.

It's interesting that some think it was heroic. I thought the loss of our heads after 20 mins was baffling and disappointing. And playing with 10 was terribly loose too. Chelsea are shite in front of goal, but we let them wander away with 4 goals and three points and little reinforcement of the concept because we did some weird shit when it was 11 v 11, let alone 9 v 11.

Do you reckon he'd have changed the halfway high line had we equalized with 9 men? Maybe that was the plan since he has made defensive subs before.

IMO your opinion is wrong.
We play our game, we win, we keep playing our game we keep winning and that's why we must keep playing it, it is more important than last night's result. That's what he's been saying since day one, we are a long way off being as good as we're going to get so we have to keep doing it to keep getting better at it.

poc · Nov 7, 2023

First home game id been to in a few years, hard to watch in the end, especially sat above the away fans.

Have to say other than the stupidity of Romero and Udogie the team really showed their togetherness and belief in the managers process. Maddison and VDV injuries were hard to take.

Vicario was absolutely amazing throughout this game.

Hope the injuries arent too bad and we are able to get through to build on the squad in January without losing too many points do to this game.

bubble07 · Nov 7, 2023

Joe Bjorn Hotspur said:
Here’s my footage of yesterday

This backline from this image was the deepest all game

KirstyG · Nov 7, 2023

sundanceyid10 said:
Sorry but I didn’t see us bottling anything last night, players playing on the edge and going over that edge yes, but bottling no.

I have seen Spurs sides bottle it games but that never happened last night. Spurs sides over the years have been easy on the eye and easily turned over at times, I think having a bit of aggression in this team is long overdue and in the long run will serve us well.

We just need to walk and stay the right side of the edge of that line when it comes to aggression.

All i'm saying is we had complete control in that match, then we made a couple of rash challenges and we forgot how to play and calm things down. The initial challenge from Udogie led to a complete forgetting of what we were doing well. It's like many plans went out of the window and it spiralled.

Hopefully they learn a lot from it but I'd have liked to have seen maybe Ange or senior player take charge when it was spiralling to get to grips with things.

Trent Crimm · Nov 7, 2023

thelak said:
Is this the Roy Keane impersonation thread?

If any of the above is factually incorrect let me know.

Trent Crimm · Nov 7, 2023

spurs mental said:
Hes a human being too though, and been part of the club for nearly a decade. He has sat on the bench all season and came on last night in really difficult circumstances.

Look at the video of him walking in the other day to the training ground, hes been down on himself, evidently.

He could have easily put the bare minimum in and not been bothered, especially with what's been said about him by our own fans, probably even myself. But he did a job and he did it well.

Give him his dues. He deserves it

You can tell he’s down on himself from a video?

basically. Man does his job. That’s it. And let’s not forget why he’s on the bench, generally. Cos he’s been a liability.

tony0379 · Nov 7, 2023

Dier's goal should of stood. Ball came off a Chelsea player

Joe Bjorn Hotspur · Nov 7, 2023

thePessimist said:
Generally thought ref/var did ok yesterday but the Son offside goal I was slightly unsure of (or maybe I’m remembering it wrong). Was he actually offside?

A toenail by the looks of it even more impressive of VAR: need an X-ray for this one surely!

Joe Bjorn Hotspur · Nov 7, 2023

bubble07 said:
This backline from this image was the deepest all game

Loved Ange’s response to that Sky sports journo asking him if he should’ve changed the approach being down to 9 men. Along the lines of mate if we were down to 5 I wouldn’t change a thing. Even on the wrong end of a result the man is so rational.

Joe Bjorn Hotspur · Nov 7, 2023

rebrab said:
Hats off to dier. You don’t do that without massive balls, and he really tried to play like Ange wants. He’s had to turn up to training every day and keep working hard knowing he’s not first choice any more and seeing so much love go to everyone else. Yes he’s limited but he deserves some appreciation for turning up.

We’ve got to have a sense of humour as a fan base too, the guy is limited, however, did well under the circumstances. I would like to see a fan bring one of these along to the next home games just like with those kangaroos going about. I’m not too sure what to think of this. On the official club shop website: an online purchase only. Hum!

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