Match Threads Spurs vs Chelsea - Day 11

[spurs mental]

You can tell he’s down on himself from a video?

basically. Man does his job. That’s it. And let’s not forget why he’s on the bench, generally. Cos he’s been a liability.

So when players do a good job they shouldn't get praise because its their job to perform?

You've never had a performance appraisal at work or depending on your job, given one, or given praise or been given praise in work for doing your job well?

 

[DarwinSpur]

Very much looking forward to Bissouma being the only player carded for simulation the entire season.

 

[npearl4spurs]

Watching it back again 1) because I only watched the first 35 minutes and then work demanded my time, and 2) that was insane.

1st Half
We bossed them the first 20 minutes. They couldn't lay a hand on us. There was only one way that match at 11 on 11 was ending, and it was going to be a bad night for Chelsea.

Then I noticed that two things happened. 1) Thiago Silva to me was using some dark arts and did some fouling and pissing Romero off. I think that's what happened with him. Then 2) Oliver didn't control the match at that point and there was no yellow card for the Caicedo foul on Maddison about 23 minutes or so in. There was also a handball that should have been called on Caicedo at 25 minutes. All these things didn't leave the match at a simmer but cranked up the temperature, and we let the blood rush to our head and killed ourselves.

Romero then misplaced a pass badly on 27' to turn it over which led to his penalty/red card. He just lost his head and went too strongly.

Next it's a game of inches as Vicario definitely got a hand on Palmer's penalty but not enough. Imagine if he had kept that out...

Others have pointed out very cleverly that the constant interruptions and stop-start nature led to VDV's injury IMO. Of almost 57 minutes on the clock, the ball was only in play for 23 minutes!

Dier came in and started excellently. Really pleased with him. We outplayed them even with 10 for the remainder of the first half. Another recurring theme at the end of this half and into the 2nd half was how the flag wasn't raised at really obvious offside calls. The linesman was dogshit. Just mind-boggling.

2nd half
Our fans were amazing. Thank you to everyone who went. Kulusevski, while he was on the pitch, and Porro immense. Son was irresistible in his running. Hojgjerb was excellent with Vicario the best of the bunch.

I wonder why Ange made the double sub so early on 60 minutes and taking Kulusevski so early? We matched them 9 v 11. If we finish the game with 10 I think we win it still. Jackson absolute trash really the whole match. Not quality on this night and not much there for Chelsea to count on going forward. Celebrating against 9 men and then skying one at the end

Bentancur with more sharpness buries his chance. Son close as well.

Heroic loss. Amazing effort. So proud of our team. Heads up high.

 

[jordibwoy]

Watching it back again 1) because I only watched the first 35 minutes and then work demanded my time, and 2) that was insane.

1st Half
We bossed them the first 20 minutes. They couldn't lay a hand on us. There was only one way that match at 11 on 11 was ending, and it was going to be a bad night for Chelsea.

Then I noticed that two things happened. 1) Thiago Silva to me was using some dark arts and did some fouling and pissing Romero off. I think that's what happened with him. Then 2) Oliver didn't control the match at that point and there was no yellow card for the Caicedo foul on Maddison about 23 minutes or so in. There was also a handball that should have been called on Caicedo at 25 minutes. All these things didn't leave the match at a simmer but cranked up the temperature, and we let the blood rush to our head and killed ourselves.

Romero then misplaced a pass badly on 27' to turn it over which led to his penalty/red card. He just lost his head and went too strongly.

Next it's a game of inches as Vicario definitely got a hand on Palmer's penalty but not enough. Imagine if he had kept that out...

Others have pointed out very cleverly that the constant interruptions and stop-start nature led to VDV's injury IMO. Of almost 57 minutes on the clock, the ball was only in play for 23 minutes!

Dier came in and started excellently. Really pleased with him. We outplayed them even with 10 for the remainder of the first half. Another recurring theme at the end of this half and into the 2nd half was how the flag wasn't raised at really obvious offside calls. The linesman was dogshit. Just mind-boggling.

2nd half
Our fans were amazing. Thank you to everyone who went. Kulusevski, while he was on the pitch, and Porro immense. Son was irresistible in his running. Hojgjerb was excellent with Vicario the best of the bunch.

I wonder why Ange made the double sub so early on 60 minutes and taking Kulusevski so early? We matched them 9 v 11. If we finish the game with 10 I think we win it still. Jackson absolute trash really the whole match. Not quality on this night and not much there for Chelsea to count on going forward. Celebrating against 9 men and then skying one at the end

Bentancur with more sharpness buries his chance. Son close as well.

Heroic loss. Amazing effort. So proud of our team. Heads up high.

THIS. I understood the reasoning behind bringing on fresh legs in Skipp & Bentancur but Sarr and Kulusevski looked like they could've played the 90 AND were much better for actually giving us a chance to create.

I actually felt we could still win the game at 9v11 with the high line until those two subs. The worst part being the fresh legs didn't do a great job in pressuring the man on the ball which was what they went in the game to do.

I think that's why Vic was so upset at the 2nd Chelsea goal, because we didn't put enough pressure on James on the pass to Sterling.

Of course, not being overly critical as would be unfair to all those who had to fight playing down 2 men.

This result is on Romero primarily, then Udogie for me.

 

[kitchen]

You contradict yourself where you say we won’t win trophies with this style of football and then say we would win by 3-4 but for discipline and game management

I would say if we can maintain discipline and build a proper squad there is no reason we shouldn’t win some things with this style of football (I don’t think to dare is to do involves losing your mind and making reckless challenges)

I don't contradict myself at all. I absolutely believe that Ange's style of football can win us titles in the long run. We play great football 11v11.

My comment was not about the style in general which is great (hence I stated we looked at the start like we'd win by 3 or 4). It was about playing with a high line on the half way line with 9 men. That won't get you points against any decent opposition and playing a low block with 9 behind the ball and perhaps a counter attacking threat might be boring but it might. With city in the league being so consistent - if you want to win the league trophy you can't afford to drop many points and you need to take the pragmatic approach for every point you can get. Ours was not pragmatic. It was high risk high reward.

And that was my point. Every team gets red cards at some point. But City would have gone for the 1 point and tried to scrape 3 in our situation. We went for 3 and got none.

That said I personally commend Ange for his bravery and I loved it. But like I said. I value the experience over the points. If we want to win the league though, more pragmatism is needed.

 

[spursfan77]

Mate… Sterling dives .. plural. I’m accepting of things given against us; but when that balance is skewed in the opposition’s favour I tend to lose heart. It was quite a bizarre game tbh; but Oliver needed to be more alert to Chelsea fouls

The red card and penalty doesn’t happen if he is.

 

[Mr Pink]

Yeah i have to say Michael Oliver was a problem last night.

Was letting so many of their niggly fouls go, and that gave them imputus and some control at that stage.

In many ways that contributed to our ill discipline

 

[Trent Crimm]

Yeah i have to say Michael Oliver was a problem last night.

Was letting so many of their niggly fouls go, and that gave them imputus and some control at that stage.

In many ways that contributed to our ill discipline

Hahaha. Yeah. Def not our fault at all. Next you will be telling me homelessness is a lifestyle choice.

 

[Mr Pink]

Hahaha. Yeah. Def not our fault at all. Next you will be telling me homelessness is a lifestyle choice.

It was our fault, we need to learn from it.

But the ref wasnt good though, thats all i'm pointing out....and it didnt help that he was letting a lot of their niggly fouls go.

You twerp lol.

 

[Whazam]

Yeah i have to say Michael Oliver was a problem last night.

Was letting so many of their niggly fouls go, and that gave them imputus and some control at that stage.

In many ways that contributed to our ill discipline

Totally agree. We can't blame him for losing our heads and having to pay for it. That's all on us.

But my God, it felt like he didn't have the balls to make a single decision without the help of VAR. I asked myself several times why he was even on the pitch in the first half. How can you just let a game derail like that without even trying to control it?

 

[Adam456]

Liverpool showed us a few weeks ago how to defend with 9 men - yes I am aware they still lost but only to a freak 96th minute og.
Some will say that Ange still wanting to play the high line when we have 9 men and our central defensive pairing is Dier & PEH (both of whom performed well but lack pace) is noble - I don't agree. And I can see us crashing down the earth without VDV if we continue with that high line, even with 11 men. What's the saying 'pride comes beforer a fall.

Oh no not the Liverpool argument again. They went down to 9 on 69 mins so knew they had approx 25 mins to survive and, btw, didn't

We would have expected about 40 mins and, in fact, it turned out to be 44. In addition we'd lost our 2 best CBs and best LB so the chance of us holding out by parking the bus would have been minimal

 

[UbeAstard]

Totally agree. We can't blame him for losing our heads and having to pay for it. That's all on us.

But my God, it felt like he didn't have the balls to make a single decision without the help of VAR. I asked myself several times why he was even on the pitch in the first half. How can you just let a game derail like that without even trying to control it?

I don't agree with you about the VAR decisions, VAR was needed for those otherwise which ones are you saying he didn't need VAR for? The fouls and barges he allowed Chelsea to get away with was my big issue.

 

[UbeAstard]

He does get paid handsomely for what is known as his job. He hasn’t invented a cure for a disease, walked across hot coals or stopped a conflict. You make it sound like we should be offering to wash his car for a year just for doing his job.

He certainly doesn't deserve the treatment and disrespectful comments I have seen from fans.

 

[stormfly]

It’s just so frustrating that we shot ourselves in the foot. 11 v 11 we win that game all day and go marching on. It feels like a sliding doors moment but hopefully I’m wrong. The next 3 games are going to show us what we are really made of.

 

[danielneeds]

Be very interesting to know if VAR have the Sky commentary at Stockley Park. Can't help feeling that they are influenced by Neville's rants.

So apparently they have no access to TV feeds and mobiles and iPads aren’t allowed in the room, according to Dale Johnson, an ESPN reporter…

 

[UbeAstard]

Commentary has lost what it was meant to be. You now rarely hear them actually commentate on the game eg “Maddison receives it on the left, past one, plays it infield to Bissouma, holds off X and plays it…..”

it’s mostly chatting now, sometimes even about teams/players that aren’t sodding playing!

Its not just the commentary its the directing to focus lingering on managers after an incident, a player who did something some seconds ago or someone/thing else while the action is going on on the pitch. Making the match a story rather than about the action on the pitch. Wish they would put them things in a picture in picture or not do it at all.

 

[Whazam]

I don't agree with you about the VAR decisions, VAR was needed for those otherwise which ones are you saying he didn't need VAR for? The fouls and barges he allowed Chelsea to get away with was my big issue.

Well, yes, of course VAR was needed for those, since Oliver barely made any calls himself (at least in the first half). So he didn't make the big calls until VAR intervened, and he didn't make the calls for the fouls/barges you mentioned. Surely that makes him more or less redundant.

Just take the disastrous moment where everything went to hell as an example. He misses Sterling's extremely obvious dive, then he misses Romero's red card. And this is after letting seemingly every tackle pass for several minutes.

VAR was needed because Oliver relied on it to make the decisions for him, instead of setting a bar for the game himself.

 

[DiamondLites]

 

[mcbridemartin]

Well, yes, of course VAR was needed for those, since Oliver barely made any calls himself (at least in the first half). So he didn't make the big calls until VAR intervened, and he didn't make the calls for the fouls/barges you mentioned. Surely that makes him more or less redundant.

Just take the disastrous moment where everything went to hell as an example. He misses Sterling's extremely obvious dive, then he misses Romero's red card. And this is after letting seemingly every tackle pass for several minutes.

VAR was needed because Oliver relied on it to make the decisions for him, instead of setting a bar for the game himself.

Oliver did not even spot the Sterling handball that 58,000 others managed to see without too much difficulty.

 

[mcbridemartin]

Oliver did not even spot the Sterling handball that 58,000 others managed to see without too much difficulty.

Also remember Oliver was the fourth official in our match against Liverpool, the audio from whom mysteriously did not appear with all the rest after the fall out of the incorrect decision to disallow a valid goal.

A cynic may think Oliver was on a levelling up mission last night, and is he not from around Newcastle, one of our main rivals this season. Probably nothing, don't want to get Arteta off on one again.