Jenas, Livermore, Defoe

Seen a lot of comments about these three in particular after the first two games of the season. The implication has been that they're all shit because they haven't fulfilled some other player's role. So Livermore is shit as he isn't creative enough. Jenas is shit because he's not defensive enough and Defoe is shit as he can't play as a solo striker. Thing is that those aren't the roles those players are best at anyway.

So, Jenas (who I recognise can be one of the world's most infuriating players) has only ever shone as an attacking midfielder in a central midfield three. To play him in a defensive two is ludicrous. As such don't get annoyed if he doesn't become Scott Parker overnight.

Livermore is a defensive player. He's pretty good at that. To be angry that he can't pass like Luka Modric is utterly insane.

And Defoe. We all know he can't play as the only striker. He relies on being able to play on the shoulder of the last defender. He can't link up well enough to play up top by himself. He's good at what he does. So to call him shit is just a complete fallacy.

Put simply, in the two games so far we've has square pegs I round holes. Yes, strikers have played up front and defenders in defence. But football is much more nuanced than that. So far I think we've held a failure of tactics in relation to the personnel we have rather than a failure of personnel per se.

I'd love to see Livermore and Parrett in midfield

Why play Livermore when Sandro is a holding player. Why do we need two? I didn't see Swansea play two holding midfielders in a home game. Livermore is not needed in home games.

Our problem again was an inability for a striker to hold up play and get into the right positions for crosses. Defoe isn't shit but he isn't what we need in this system. AVB and Levy need to fix his asap. It's a joke how we left Ades signing so late, if he is injured we are screwed. Again we players well all over the park but it's that final third. If we had a proper lone striker in place we would've won easy today. Jenas, livermore, sandro and even Parker better then Hudd? No way the season we qualified for .CL Hudd was imperious, AVBS reasoning to let Jenas be ahead of Hudd is insanity.

It's a joke how we left Ades signing so late,
How can it be a joke when all the indications are that the hold up was between him and Man City - if Adebayor wanted to delay signing for us to make sure he got every last penny out of Man C then what can we do ? Or would you suggest we pay out money to players and clubs just to sort out their problems.

There should have been more pressure on him to complete the deal. I know it's essentially down to Ade the signing took so long, but it's still a joke. Here we are sticking to a 433 where the lone striker is vital to make it work, and everyone knows Defoe can't do this role yet we fail to sign anyone to resolve it. Having been left to just Defoe we should have played a different style. Square pegs in round holes, never works and AVB thus far has shown a naivety and stubborness that doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.

Wheeler Dealer said:

Why play Livermore when Sandro is a holding player. Why do we need two? I didn't see Swansea play two holding midfielders in a home game. Livermore is not needed in home games.

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I agree and with parker coming back it is going to be much of the same need CM to come in and if possible hudd to get fit

It's a relief to see that Livermore has been added to the list of scapegoats, 2 or 3 was never going to be enough for some people so to get another one in this early in the season is good work, well done people.

Livermore played well, but he's not Modric and he's being asked to play in the position Modric would play in if the rat faced **** wasn't such a twat. Livermore should be playing in Sandro's position when Sandro needs a rest or rotation.

Defoe looked poor in the first half and only started to get into the game when we switched to 2 strikers, if we're going to be playing with only one striker this season then there's no place for him in the team.

Jenas - WHY?!?!?!?

Livermore was not that bad today. You just cant play Sandro and Livermore together because those two positions infront of the back 4 get more touches of the ball than any other player, so you need atleast one of them to be a creative/playmaker midfielder.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not blaming AVB I just don' t think he had any choices today. As for Jenas and Defoe what can I say that has not already been said about these players for years and years.

Livermore played very well today. I really don't have much to complain about with him. It's not fair to hate on Livermore when he's doing what he knows how to do, but it doesn't necessarily work in the formation because he's playing a position that doesn't match his skill set. He is what he is, and he does what he's known for well. He's active, he's going to be flying around, but the fact is he's just not confident moving up the pitch with the ball and making runs with the ball. He likes to control it and then find the outlet. If it were just him holding down the defensive midfield role, he'd be fine. So in that regard, at least Livermore can be decent cover for Sandro if Parker were to go down, or just thinking long-term when Parker eventually moves on.

As for Jenas, when he comes on the pitch it's like Tottenham was red carded. It's as though we go down to 10 men. He just gets lost in play way too much. I wish we could sell him off for 2m. I'd be ecstatic. It's time for him to move on and it's time for us to stop wasting minutes on him.

And Defoe, I just feel bad for him because he's so miscast in a lone striker role. He really needs someone else with him up top. I still believe his best role is being an impact sub as he can exploit tired defenders with ease. Nothing much else to say about him. He's one of my favorite Tottenham players, but unfortunately if we want to play how AVB does, he doesn't really have the skill set to really make it work. Once Ade is match-fit, and if we do sign another striker (and fast), I'd expect him to be on the outs possibly via a transfer (pains me to say that).

And the last thing: Today's match really just felt like a fluke. I just got done rewatching the match and I look at that missed shot by VdV. Lennon is led into the box perfectly by Walker, he maintains possession and lays it off perfectly for VdV who attempt to nestle it inside the post off his right foot. Weak foot aside, VdV is a pure class finisher, and it just seemed as though when a guy like that misses the shot when he had the goal pretty much for the taking, that maybe it's just 'one of those days.' Obviously that wasn't the only muffed shot, but that one really stuck out. But the play in the first half was nothing short of brilliant. It makes me wonder what it would look like if we had a creative midfielder that can charge upfield with the ball.

Yesterday was typical Spurs so we can't be that surprised. I think we could have done with a more attacking playmaker alongside Sandro to help break down WBA through the middle (hopefully helping to push VDV further forward where he can do real damage) but we all know we are missing that player.

Just one of them days. If we had got an earlier goal, or a second goal, could have turned it a rout. As for Livermore, glad a youth product gets the nod over the overpaid former potential star. Did what we expect from him, if not we needed, and gave 100%

kali said:

I'd love to see Livermore and Parrett in midfield

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I'd love to see the manager assess Spurs' players accurately and put them in a strong position to win games...

He's new to WHL and I understand that - his "growing pains" cause me angst, but COYS!!!

Football is a very simple game that some people over complicate , and most footballers are too thick to follow detailed instructions anyway.

With me it aint that Livermore is shit its that he, not his fault, has replaced Modric in the current starting line up and he isnt good enough for that role and if anyone says he is then they do not understand football. Lets be honest if we signed Moutinho & Ade early then neither of Livermore or Defoe would have played the opening 2 games!

Agree on Livermore and Jenas, disagree on Defoe. Selfishness, and not bothering to look for your teammates, shouldn't be "part of his game." That is a choice - and it is annoying how when he gets the ball near the other team's box, the only thing he thinks about is how he can get a goal for himself. Not trying to bash him or anything but I wish he would be a bit more of a team player. Ade actually goes a little bit too far the other way but he's thinking about getting the team a goal whether he scores it himself or sets it up for someone else.

IMO we maybe should have balanced our midfield by playing Carroll instead of Livermore, along with Sandro and VDV/Siggy. Easy to say in hindsight, and I'm absolutely expecting us to get a creative midfielder in the last week but if we don't we should either play VDV in that role or give Carroll and chance. Livermore with Sandro is unnecessary. In fact Sandro does better when he's the only DM imo.

tototoner said:

Football is a very simple game that some people over complicate , and most footballers are too thick to follow detailed instructions anyway.

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we seem to have a few in our squad...

kali said:

I'd love to see Livermore and Parrett in midfield

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Hi Kali. Has Dean been given any indication what to expect under the new manager?

The manager likes him and has indictated this to him but seems other things are in the way at the mo.
So have to wait and see what is on the cards.

I think the Livermore/Sandro combination worked well in the first half, if we had a striker that could put away some of the chances then Jake wouldn't be getting bashed in some other threads on here, with a mobile pressing game i think we will see our holding 2 as quick all round players leaving the front 4 to attack, our main problem was not having a decent replacement for Sandro when he started to tire, if Parker had been fit then all would be well, Livermore needed someone confident beside him.............................. he got given Jenas