- Jan 27, 2008
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Could he be going on loan? See the Edwards threadIs Edwards injured? I've seen no mention of him for ages. Too hopeful to think he may have traveled to Barcelona with the first team squad?
Could he be going on loan? See the Edwards threadIs Edwards injured? I've seen no mention of him for ages. Too hopeful to think he may have traveled to Barcelona with the first team squad?
There is also the notion that whilst we may have a very talented youth pool to pick from that in itself doesn't mean Poch should have to promote them.
Poch's team mentality is all about working hard and being mentally tough. I would say he prizes that above technically skill, Sissoko being a good example. When we sign players very rarely do they go straight into the team. In fact it usually takes a couple of months before the signed player is relied upon regardless of their quality, unless of course our hand is forced (such as Janssen).
What makes you think that a youth player should be fast tracked if they haven't proved to Poch they have the right mentality? I'm not suggesting players like Onomah and CCV don't but it hardly sends out an egalitarian approach promoting a Onomah over Sissoko when the later has worked his nuts off and puts the team above himself.
It’s not usually about “fast tracked” more just having a track.
Nobody has ever questioned Onomah’s attitude, including Poch (that I can remember) and KWP has been lauded by his team mates and Poch for his attitude.
It’s a worthy philosophy to insist on all players having the right attitude and application, but that doesn’t really explain why Onomah wasn’t given a chance to play in his natural position once, or why he and KWP couldn’t be considered as better alternatives to Sissoko for CM/AM roles.
I want a coach with high values, but I also want one with some balls, inspiration and inventive imagination.
I’m not saying Poch never demonstrates those qualities, but let’s not pretend they aren’t vital too.
I think there has been some questions on this.
I think there has been some questions on this.
His drive has been questioned. He's a laid back guy with a laid back playing style. Its not hard to see why it would rub Poch up the wrong way.
Clearly there are a lot of people on here who are hardcore 'fans' of our youth team, so they are more inclined to want to see those kids coming through - I would ask them (not a rhetorical question) is your priority seeing youngsters in the team, or seeing youngsters in a successful side? Because IMO where we are right now is pretty much the sweet spot - neither blooding kids for the sake of it regardless of their quality/potential, nor ignoring the younger age groups in favour of going for short-term success.
What had actually been said, by whom?
i think i speak for most here when i say we only want to see those who are a) good enough and b) can offer something to the team. it's not just about getting youth players into the first team for the sake of it. georgiou for example was there for a while this season and he meets neither of the criteria mentioned, i'm happy for him that he got himself into the position but i probably have less will to see him in the first team than most posters outside of this thread. oakley-boothe is another who i think has been pushed up way too prematurely, he does have the potential to make it here in the long-term but his performances at youth level haven't merited the fast-tracking he's received. there are games however, like those at home to the bus-parkers, where i wish we had edwards there as an option because i think he could genuinely benefit the team.
it's already difficult for these kids to get a chance at a club like ours but poch really is stacking the deck against them in a lot of ways. typically for young players at a top club you have two avenues into first team football, the obvious one being loans which poch himself has pretty much said he prefers not to use(though this may now finally be changing) and the other is using cup/less important games or free hits towards the end of a game where the match is won and you can give a youngster a look just to see how he copes and if he can offer something to the team going forward, but again, poch says he doesn't believe in that way of doing things as apparently is doesn't suitably prepare them for the pressure and intensity of a real game.
there's never any chance of a player just being thrown in so you're not going to see a rashford type just come through out of nowhere, it's all very much a long and deliberate process they have to go through before they can even think of playing in an actual game. if it's really so difficult to give these kids opportunities then instead of harbouring them all at the club then why not just get them out there playing and then when one is performing to a level where they can no longer be ignored then bring them back and get them in the squad.
Marcud Edwards loaned out to Norwich for the rest of the season and Cameron Carter-Vickers is recalled
https://t.co/BnA1pGMfrN
Poch's job is to win games.
We all want another kane but at the end of the day we want champions league and trophies.
Would playing onomah instead of sissoko or edwards instead of gkn mean we gain/lose points? I dunno. That is his decision.
Re. Poch's use of the youngsters - you have to remember that the youth team is only one element of his job, and bringing in young players isn't an end in itself; his priority is the success of the first team. If that involves loads of young, local kids playing regularly at the new Lane then brilliant. If not, then as long as we're still producing players who could play for the club - and who will at least be developed to the extent that they can enjoy a long career in the game - while the first team is successful, then that's fine.
I think there is a massive misconception here, that people just want to see academy players used for the sake of it. A&C posted a stat that Poch has given 8 debuts to academy players or something, all managers stat pad it means nothing and doesn't impress anyone and is ultimately pointless. If I give 10 academy players 10minutes to share out, it's nothing to be proud of. All I want for us is to win trophies. I don't care if it has an academy player in it or not, we could scrap the whole thing as long as we are winning trophies. Why on earth would I want an academy player to play for our first them if it is to the detriment of it. I want the best of our players to get chances, ahead of players bought for the squad and the same patience shown as I ultimately believe they will be better players than them and very possibly the first teamers. If we provided the same opportunity and scope for mistakes we did for Sissoko or GKN or whatever squad players as we did to our best academy players we may be in a better position. I can't see the future so do not 100% know, but history suggests we would.I would ask them (not a rhetorical question) is your priority seeing youngsters in the team, or seeing youngsters in a successful side?
I don't think one should and never have. If I youth player doesn't want to work they can leave, but I have never heard a youth player slacking I've only heard positive reports from them in trainingWhat makes you think that a youth player should be fast tracked if they haven't proved to Poch they have the right mentality? I'm not suggesting players like Onomah and CCV don't but it hardly sends out an egalitarian approach promoting a Onomah over Sissoko when the later has worked his nuts off and puts the team above himself.
Some managers pay little or no attention to the youth team, focusing entirely on short-term success - usually firefighters like Allardyce and Pulis, or managers like Conte and Mourinho who don't hang around long enough at any one club to bother with the kids. At the other end of the scale, you have managers who rely on the youth setup to provide first team players; usually they are managing teams who don't have a lot of money to go out and buy ready-made first team players.
Pochettino is somewhere in the middle.
Agree which is why I'd like one or 2 max academy players played alongside the first teamers and not 4/5 chucked in together with our squad players.As much as I enjoy the rush of "ooh, let's get a good look at them" when we play a few kids in the cups, it's probably not that useful for learning about any of them in particular; you'd learn more from putting out a strong side with one youngster, to see how he fits into a proper first team environment; you probably won't learn much about Kyle Walker-Peters' quality by playing him alongside a load of other kids, most of whom won't make it...stick him into a strong eleven and you'll learn a lot more IMO, and that seems to be Poch's view as well.
Marcud Edwards loaned out to Norwich for the rest of the season and Cameron Carter-Vickers is recalled
https://t.co/BnA1pGMfrN
Like Onomah never really thought Edwards should be loaned out, but if the options is a loan or training for a couple of more years this is the best option. Hopefully he settles and has a good time