Player Watch Player Watch: Timo Werner

Nick-TopSpursMan · Mar 3, 2024

We can buy him for a low fee but he still takes up a squad place, a big chunk of wages and leaves us with yet another player who isn’t really the top level we need and at 27 he isn’t going to improve beyond what we’re seeing now.

If he comes in we will have:
Deki/Johnson
Son/Richarlison/Veliz
Werner/Solomon

We have to be brutally honest, that’s not good enough to compete for the title and CL and surely that’s the level we want to get to?

Move Deki to midfield and replace him with Neto RW, that upgrades that area.

If we sign Werner then we need to sell Solomon and replace him with a quality LW. If we don’t sign Werner then we need to buy a quality LW instead of him.

But Werner’s wages will make it hard to buy another LW (as well as Neto for example).

Styopa · Mar 3, 2024

Nick-TopSpursMan said:
We can buy him for a low fee but he still takes up a squad place, a big chunk of wages and leaves with yet another player who isn’t really the top level we need and at 27 he isn’t going to improve beyond what we’re seeing now.

If he comes in we will have:
Deki/Johnson
Son/Richarlison/Veliz
Werner/Solomon

We have to be brutally honest, that’s not good enough to compete for the title and CL and surely that’s the level we want to get to?

Move Deki to midfield and replace him with Neto RW, that upgrades that area.

If we sign Werner then we need to sell Solomon and replace him with a quality LW. If we don’t sign Werner then we need to buy a quality LW instead of him.

But Werner’s wages will make it hard to buy another LW (as well as Neto for example).

Totally agree. I suppose one way of thinking about it, is imagining Redknapp era Tottenham with Kranjcar playing regularly but no van der Vaart or Bale. It’s not that Kranjcar was a bad player, he was in fact a very good player, but he wasn’t necessarily one of those players who could singlehandedly alter the course of a match.

Right now it feels like we’ve got a few Kranjcars but not enough van der Vaarts or Bales!

Thenewcat · Mar 3, 2024

easley91 said:
I thought his first touch was first class to set him away from the defender. The final shot wasn't great, but what he did to generate the chance was brilliant.

His first touch was great. But after that he runs much too straight and never got the ball out from under his feet which left him with no angle to beat the keeper.

easley91 · Mar 3, 2024

Thenewcat said:
His first touch was great. But after that he runs much too straight and never got the ball out from under his feet which left him with no angle to beat the keeper.

I did say the final shot wasn't great, so I agree. I am just picking up the positive from the run. How many don't get the ball into their path like that? It took out any defender immediately.

Sorry, it just feels like on here when I try and bring up a positive someone has to respond and bring it back down to a negative.

mil1lion · Mar 3, 2024

He has terrifying pace that we lack. I would gladly see him signed in the summer. Then replace Soloman with another tricky player who isn't injury prone. Ideally someone who can strike from the edge of the box.

KirstyG · Mar 3, 2024

Nick-TopSpursMan said:
We can buy him for a low fee but he still takes up a squad place, a big chunk of wages and leaves us with yet another player who isn’t really the top level we need and at 27 he isn’t going to improve beyond what we’re seeing now.

If he comes in we will have:
Deki/Johnson
Son/Richarlison/Veliz
Werner/Solomon

We have to be brutally honest, that’s not good enough to compete for the title and CL and surely that’s the level we want to get to?

Move Deki to midfield and replace him with Neto RW, that upgrades that area.

If we sign Werner then we need to sell Solomon and replace him with a quality LW. If we don’t sign Werner then we need to buy a quality LW instead of him.

But Werner’s wages will make it hard to buy another LW (as well as Neto for example).

I think the thing is more that if we keep Werner and get a quality LW then we have a great back up. I don’t see Solomon being that so Werner would provide a very good option for rotation or for subs for extra pace. I’d rather keep him than Solomon right now as he has done it before and has it in him. Jury’s out on Solomon.

Thenewcat · Mar 3, 2024

easley91 said:
I did say the final shot wasn't great, so I agree. I am just picking up the positive from the run. How many don't get the ball into their path like that? It took out any defender immediately.

Sorry, it just feels like on here when I try and bring up a positive someone has to respond and bring it back down to a negative.

That’s not true at all. My original post said he had a great game. But that chance was botched badly, and there’s no point pretending it wasn’t. It wasn’t the shot as such, his whole approach once through was completely wrong. Sonny showed him exactly how to do it later - hopefully it’s something he can be coached on, because if he was even an average finisher he’d be a hell of a player

mil1lion · Mar 3, 2024

He's similar in a way to Richarlison who misses one on ones as well. They need to take shots without much time to think. Hopefully similar to Richarlison he gets that 2nd goal quickly because then the confidence will flow and he might score more.

kendoddsdadsdogsdead · Mar 3, 2024

Styopa said:
And it’s not just about the £15m, it’s about him taking up a space in the squad.

It’s not necessarily a choice between spending e.g £60m on one new wing forward, or spending £15m on Werner and having £45m left to spend on another wing forward. It may be the case that buying Werner means him taking up that one space.

Then you also have to take into account salaries.

Definitely, It’s not the 15m It’s the 170k a week that we’d likely have to match and the squad place

mil1lion · Mar 3, 2024

Squad place should be fine if we offload Gil who never plays. Wages I don't know about but I gather we already pay his full wage in the loan. We also have a Perisic sized whole available to add one more.

Misfit · Mar 3, 2024

I'm not fussed either way tbh. If his wages are £170k a week though and he wants around that for a deal with us then walk away.

There's surefire starter and reliable producer money, which I think even his biggest fans can agree he is not as it stands. We're not paupers but we're not Citeh either to be spending that on rotational players.

jay2040 · Mar 3, 2024

The transfer fee is potentially a no brainer, wages not so good. Overall look at what it will cost for a season and what competitions we are in next season and take it from there.

I still feel he will improve as the season goes on and appreciate its a poor comparison though compared to Ndombele he wants to be here more.

beats1 · Mar 3, 2024

Nick-TopSpursMan said:
Crap is a strong word, I would probably say it in the heat of the moment during a match or after a game but it’s not true.

None of them are top quality and that’s the real issue, along with the fact they all have similar and/or severe limitations. The fact that none of them can beat people, none of them have explosive 1v1 ability allied with technical quality etc, that’s what makes them all standout out so much and frustrates us.

For that reason, I wouldn’t sign Werner. I’d spend the money on a real game changer who offers a lot more on the ball and something more than our other wide players.

Hopefully his goal today gives him more confidence and he can improve until the end of the season.

Genuinely our players are bad for the system

Werner and Johnson are great when the other team isn't sitting deep but otherwise the chances we are creating has been through the counter press with these two on the pitch. i.e. our players forcing errors in dangerous positions with the other team not set

Now if Johnson for that first goal doesn't get the rub of the green with the ball bouncing in front of him, we continue to struggle to create much

Kulusevski - best period for us has been under conte when he is cutting in to the space behind the striker with time on the ball. In the current system he is constantly running in to players after he beats a player. He imo has looked better at no. 8. I know the stats say he is one of the top wingers in the pL

Son - doesn't look good out wide, looks better cutting in between the RB and CB and having space to attack

Ange previously has preferred to have his strikers not touch the ball much except around the 6 yard box

We aren't getting rid of Johnson, Son or Kulusevski. Adding Werner doesn't make us stronger imo. We don't need someone who plays on the last man, Johnson came be that. We need someone to can beat their player with pace

You sign Neto and/or Savio(I know he's gone city, we have a team that is challenging for the title. The weak spot is the wide positions, play breaks down there, as they are supposed to provide width against a team sitting deep. Teams are coming to us, happy to be narrow, cause they know unless we counter or counter-press, our wide players aren't doing shit until they get in to the box

robotsonic · Mar 3, 2024

Still a no brainer for me given the fee offset against higher wages. Depending on length of the deal maybe, as 5 years at that might be a stretch given his age also.

Ultimately he is a very experienced player, clearly very productive in terms of his ability to get to the byline and see other players, and has blistering pace to boot, and all of those things are difficult to find in one package. I think that he works in this system, which is what it ultimately comes down to. He's already got assists and a goal, and should have had a pen too.

Him missing that 1 on 1 is nothing to me, really. There are only a few players in world football that score that more than they fuck it. We have one of them. We used to have two. We're definitely spoiled in that respect in terms of our expectations as you see failures to convert like that from literally every other team in world football on the weekly, and I certainly don't know what player we are going to sign that puts it away 8/10 times, that could also have gotten into that position.

UncleBuck · Mar 3, 2024

robotsonic said:
Still a no brainer for me given the fee offset against higher wages. Depending on length of the deal maybe, as 5 years at that might be a stretch given his age also.

Ultimately he is a very experienced player, clearly very productive in terms of his ability to get to the byline and see other players, and has blistering pace to boot, and all of those things are difficult to find in one package. I think that he works in this system, which is what it ultimately comes down to. He's already got assists and a goal, and should have had a pen too.

Him missing that 1 on 1 is nothing to me, really. There are only a few players in world football that score that more than they fuck it. We have one of them. We used to have two. We're definitely spoiled in that respect in terms of our expectations as you see failures to convert like that from literally every other team in world football on the weekly, and I certainly don't know what player we are going to sign that puts it away 8/10 times, that could also have gotten into that position.

In all fairness it was brilliant keeping, unfortunately keepers don’t get the credit for doing the basics right though, we couldn’t possibly praise someone in the press when there is an opportunity to bash someone.

robotsonic · Mar 4, 2024

UncleBuck said:
In all fairness it was brilliant keeping, unfortunately keepers don’t get the credit for doing the basics right though, we couldn’t possibly praise someone in the press when there is an opportunity to bash someone.

Well quite, but he didn't do himself any favours in keeping the ball under his feet which is suppose is the difference in technique and confidence in goalscoring between he and an elite finisher like Son. They pick the ball up a similar distance to goal, maybe to be fair to Werner he was a bit deeper, but Sonny takes two very deliberate angled touches to put himself between the defender and the ball and puts it away on his third. Werner head down takes 7 touches into the keeper from 2ft away.

Sonny backs his finishing and put himself in the position to finish with a shot. Timo backs his pace and dribbling because he doesn't trust his finishing, and fair enough he is a good dribbler and very fast, but no player can move as fast as the ball can. The keeper can read him as long as he's titting about with the ball at his feet, which he did. Made it easier than it could have been for the keeper.

But again, few players would do much else most of the time. We're very lucky to have Sonny and I would still sign Timo Werner.

allatsea · Mar 4, 2024

170,000 per week is far too much for what he can do. He is a limited player who is poor in front of goal. He is exciting when he is released with balls over the top of opponent defences but not much else IMO.

$hoguN · Mar 4, 2024

robotsonic said:
Well quite, but he didn't do himself any favours in keeping the ball under his feet which is suppose is the difference in technique and confidence in goalscoring between he and an elite finisher like Son. They pick the ball up a similar distance to goal, maybe to be fair to Werner he was a bit deeper, but Sonny takes two very deliberate angled touches to put himself between the defender and the ball and puts it away on his third. Werner head down takes 7 touches into the keeper from 2ft away.

Sonny backs his finishing and put himself in the position to finish with a shot. Timo backs his pace and dribbling because he doesn't trust his finishing, and fair enough he is a good dribbler and very fast, but no player can move as fast as the ball can. The keeper can read him as long as he's titting about with the ball at his feet, which he did. Made it easier than it could have been for the keeper.

But again, few players would do much else most of the time. We're very lucky to have Sonny and I would still sign Timo Werner.

I think you make a great point here. When you watch both back to back you can see why Son is such a lethal finisher. From the moment he drives forward with the ball he is running an angle to open up so he can shape the ball into the far corner. Werner initially straightens his run removing the angle for a Son like finish.

Key for him is just building his belief and integrating with the team a bit more. He is never going to be Son level lethal, but who is? What he is going to be, is in those situations a lot. The more confidence he has the more he will take them on more naturally.

I’m all in for signing him. Particularly as Son is clearly a bigger goal threat up front

spurs mental · Mar 4, 2024

What I really like so far is he continues to make those good runs off the ball even though he continues to not receive the ball, especially from Udogie. That understanding hasn't come yet with the two of them, but you have to believe it will. With Madders starting to show more, Biss better than he has been in months at the weekend, and games coming up where teams will come at us for a change I think we're going to start seeing the best of Timo.

Gilzeanking · Mar 4, 2024

robotsonic said:
Sonny backs his finishing and put himself in the position to finish with a shot. Timo backs his pace and dribbling because he doesn't trust his finishing, and fair enough he is a good dribbler and very fast, but no player can move as fast as the ball can. The keeper can read him as long as he's titting about with the ball at his feet, which he did. Made it easier than it could have been for the keeper.

Yes and the solution (ask Jimmy or Glenn) is to feint to shoot. The keeper is on a knife-edge anticipating what the forward will do. Pretend to shoot one way and he'll dive that way usually and the forward can walk the ball into the net.
Harry and Sonny have their shooting earlier way, but without a reliable shot its worth trying a feint 1 v 1s imo.

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