Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 15, 2024

TOLBINY said:
Fergie won a Eurpoean Trophy with a Scottich club beating Real Madridi in the final.
Peps cone boy will have learnt an lot from Pep and is putitng it to some use down the road
Klopp won 2 Bundeliga titles ( for clarity I look at the Prem, Italy, Spain, Germany and France as being the top leagues)
Pep had a decent CV when he came to the Prem - all those you have named (except Fergie) are younger than Ange and already have a better CV (even Cone Boy has an FA Cup).

So I posed a question a couple of times, what is it in Ange's CV that leads people to believe he has what it takes to win trophies in the Prem? I am not saying I think he has or has not, I don't know if he has because he has not done it at this level, I am supporitng him becuase I am fed up of chop and change and I recognised post Poch that we need a squad rebuild under stable management.

There was nothing on Artetas CV that suggested he could challenge for the Prem, yet here we are.

There might not be anything explicit on Anges CV that suggests he could win the league, but there is also nothing on his CV that suggests he couldn't.

He's a bit of an unknown quantity, so better to live in optimism.

TOLBINY · Apr 15, 2024

RuskyM said:
But that's a paradox; no one's won anything at this level until they've won something at this level.

Look at the Bundesliga - Xabi Alonso's first real job versus Thomas Tuchel, who's won the CL. Simone Inzaghi's going to win the league in Italy whilst Allegri and Mourinho don't. Arteta should've won the league and Arsenal is his first coaching job. If experience was enough to win titles, Ange wouldn't be here in the first place, because Conte/Mourinho would've won it.

All those you name, what age were they when they won something at this level?

Ange is 58 and I question why no one in a top league has picked him up before now.

TOLBINY · Apr 15, 2024

Sp3akerboxxx said:
There was nothing on Artetas CV that suggested he could challenge for the Prem, yet here we are.

There might not be anything explicit on Anges CV that suggests he could win the league, but there is also nothing on his CV that suggests he couldn't.

He's a bit of an unknown quantity, so better to live in optimism.

At last - thank you for an honest reply to a simple question.

Sp3akerboxxx · Apr 15, 2024

TOLBINY said:
All those you name, what age were thye when they won something at this level?

Ange is 58 and I question why no one in a top league has picked him up before now.

No top team went for Gallardo either, and he's broken pretty much every record in Argentina.

aussiespursguy · Apr 15, 2024

TOLBINY said:
Fergie won a Eurpoean Trophy with a Scottich club beating Real Madridi in the final.
Peps cone boy will have learnt an lot from Pep and is putitng it to some use down the road
Klopp won 2 Bundeliga titles ( for clarity I look at the Prem, Italy, Spain, Germany and France as being the top leagues)
Pep had a decent CV when he came to the Prem - all those you have named (except Fergie) are younger than Ange and already have a better CV (even Cone Boy has an FA Cup).

So I posed a question a couple of times, what is it in Ange's CV that leads people to believe he has what it takes to win trophies in the Prem? I am not saying I think he has or has not, I don't know if he has because he has not done it at this level, I am supporitng him becuase I am fed up of chop and change and I recognised post Poch that we need a squad rebuild under stable management.

Well he has been in charge since 2019!
What I am saying is we need to pull back and not be reactive to a poor result.
You wanna give Ange time? Good. Then let him get on with it and lets judge him this time next year.
Another transfer window and another pre-season. That is all most ask.

Tucker · Apr 15, 2024

TOLBINY said:
Fergie won a Eurpoean Trophy with a Scottich club

Is this what happens when you get fleas in your kilt?

greaves · Apr 15, 2024

Sp3akerboxxx said:
No top team went for Gallardo either, and he's broken pretty much every record in Argentina.

Yep. Sooner or later you take a chance. Whether it’s a fledgling leaving a nest, a child being ‘let go of’ when swimming or riding a bike, it’s just life. Spurs have taken a chance with Ange, that’s fine. When I was younger you couldn’t get to work behind a bar until you’d worked behind a bar. It’s like a frigging Escher painting. Old thinking, bad thinking.

jurgen · Apr 15, 2024

I don't think Ange is every going to win a CV battle with those coaches - although you're pushing it with Cone Boy who is more of an advert for taking a risk on the unproven (and then giving him loads of time and an oil tanker of money).

Despite his age, which you keep going on about, he's more of an up and coming coach in the European game, and our best coach of the last few generations had previously managed Espanyol and Southampton, without any pots or 'meaningful' success, before arriving at Spurs.

Personally I would stop banging on about him being 58, there are many younger coaches without an innovative bone in their body, so what if he's older? We're expecting him to create tactics for the team with his mental faculties, not play in it.

Fergus · Apr 15, 2024

Three of the top 5 teams in the Prem got schooled this weekend, two of them at home, yet the other two's fans don't seem to be banging on about it being the manager's fault. I despair of this fanbase sometimes.

dontcallme · Apr 15, 2024

Why would we be judging a manager’s CV when he has already been at the club for almost a full season?

Surely we should be judging him by the job he is doing not what is on a piece of paper.

dontcallme · Apr 15, 2024

Fergus said:
Three of the top 5 teams in the Prem got schooled this weekend, two of them at home, yet the other two's fans don't seem to be banging on about it being the manager's fault. I despair of this fanbase sometimes.

TBF the vast majority here are very supportive of Ange and believe he’s doing a good job.

Most of the analysis is questioning aspects of the job rather than as a whole.

mattspur1 · Apr 15, 2024

I know he's said he won't change however, I am hoping Ange is having second thoughts on his formation/set up.

We just look so easy to score against.

Ghost Hardware · Apr 15, 2024

greaves said:
High intensity/pressing will wear out players over a season, which is what happened with Poch. Even with just one game a week. Stating the obvious, but a higher quality squad is probably the answer. Ange will know this. I think this is the most likely reason for the success of our first ten matches and the mercurial form that’s followed. Poorer, less sharp decision making and a drop in resilience, especially with players out injured/suspended, seem likely to be related. ‘It’s the squad, stupid!’ Though I am not calling you stupid.

Completely this. Agree 100%. One has to factor in this is the first season playing such a high intensity high press coupled with a large number of our players not been rotated much. Son, Maddison, VDV, Romero, Udogie, Porro have all been pretty much undroppable when fit. I know they have had injuries but that isn't the same. Plus one shouldn't ignore the mental fatigue of learning a new high intensity system. It all adds up. It's very common to see these sort of flaccid displays in the back end of the season, espechially in the early years of a new managers tenure .

The fact is that unless you are 100% our tactics can get torn to shreds. Easily. If your just a few seconds off the pace you allow the opposition an opening. I think its fairly obvious watching us now that we don't press as succinctly as a unit as we did at the start of the season. We get caught out position more often and individual errors are occurring with more regularity. We still have moments of fluidity but our performances over 90 minutes are significantly less sharp then they were before. I said this the other day but one of my biggest concerns at the moment is how we deal with the large increases of games next season when/if we get into Europe. It will be imperative that come summer we add a number of players Ange trusts to the squad as rotation will be key for us. Even so I wouldn't be surprised if next season we similar dip in performances towards the back end of the season.

Yes there might also be the need to tweak the tactics but I think a large part of our success in the long term will be down to players adjusting to the physical rigours of the system and better in game management from Ange. That alongside a larger squad of players Ange trusts.

fishhhandaricecake · Apr 15, 2024

Ghost Hardware said:
Completely this. Agree 100%. One has to factor in this is the first season playing such a high intensity high press coupled with a large number of our players not been rotated much. Son, Maddison, VDV, Romero, Udogie, Porro have all been pretty much undroppable when fit. I know they have had injuries but that isn't the same. Plus one shouldn't ignore the mental fatigue of learning a new high intensity system. It all adds up. It's very common to see these sort of flaccid displays in the back end of the season, espechially in the early years of a news managers tenure .

The fact is that unless you are 100% our tactics can get torn to shreds. Easily. If your just a few seconds off the pace you allow the opposition an opening. I think its fairly obvious watching us now that we don't press as succinctly as a unit as we did at the start of the season. We get caught out position more often and individual errors are occurring with more regularity. We still have moments fluidity but our performances over 90 minutes are significantly less sharp then they were before. I said this the other day but one of my biggest concern at the moment is how we deal with large increases of games next season when/if we get into Europe. It will be imperative that come summer we add a number of players Ange trusts to the squad as rotation will be key for us. Even so I wouldn't be surprised if next season we similar dip in performances towards the back end of the season.

Yes there might also be the need to tweak the tactics but I think a large part of our success in the long term will be down to players adjusting to they physical rigours of the system and better in game management from Ange. That alongside a larger squad of players Ange trusts.

True, our players do look a bit tired at the moment.

Ray Ray · Apr 15, 2024

I'm not sure if it's been intentional, or if the players are trying to adapt on the pitch, but the way we are using the inverted wingbacks has changed massively from the start of the season.

Earlier in the season udogie/porro where inverting and the CMs where pushing up into the box, or able to initiate a higher press if we lost the game, but now they just seem to swap positions, so having a full back in CM and vice versa.

Against Newcastle, West ham, Fulham etc. , anytime we got the ball wide, there was a distinct lack of players making runs into the box to support Son, and out CMs are further away from the box than out fullbacks!

Anyway, He's got a few weeks now to sort things out in training, but I would like to see Ange make some changes for the next game and drop Maddison and Bissouma, who have been dreadfully out of form. He dropped Kulu, so has shown he isn't scared to do it, but seems to continue to persist with Bissouma and Maddison.

I appreciate hes drilling plan A into the players, but they also need to be held accountable for their performances.

NickHSpurs · Apr 15, 2024

We need to calm down a bit a remember the shower of shite we were served up before his arrival.

Two transfer windows is no where near enough to sort out what he inherited, he's already done a great job at shifting out a lot of "deadwood" that needed moves and all the while dealing with losing the best goalscorer we have ever had.

After this summer the squad should be much more in his mould and then we can really judge him on next season. I didn't expect top four this year so if we manage to sneak it we would be ahead of schedule in my opinion. Top 5/6 would be par for the course I think which is fine all things considered.

funkycoldmedina · Apr 15, 2024

TOLBINY said:
At last - thank you for an honest reply to a simple question.

I've given you one but you must have me on ignore

TOLBINY · Apr 15, 2024

funkycoldmedina said:
I've given you one but you must have me on ignore

No - have never put anyone on ignore - yet - so apologies I must have missed it.

Ghost Hardware · Apr 15, 2024

fishhhandaricecake said:
True, our players do look a bit tired at the moment.

This is the thing, because we push up so high and the FB's invert there is so much space for the opposition to run in behind. The only way you stop this from happing is by continuously pressing hard high up the pitch. If you miss time your tackle or fail to pick up a player then the ball over the top will be on all game. Its not a unique weakness to our system, it's there in every high press system if your FB's invert or not. Yes there is also the issue of inverted FB's getting back into position but when working well that shouldn't be such a risk. Fact is we look messy at the moment with and without the ball. If you aren't on it then this system can so easily get destroyed in seconds hence it not just being about physical sharpness but mental as well. There is no space to coast or over think or loose focus.

I do also think that there needs to be some tactical tweaking, as others have said I think the idea of one of the FB tucking in to make a back 3 could be a very clever answer and it is a fairly common one when pushing your back line so high up the pitch. Ether that or you drop your DM into the back three and have your CB sit wider. But in general I think what we are seeing is pretty par for the course for a team in its first season transitioning to a high press system.

I know we haven't played that many games but its not just about the matches, the training will be very intense as Ange is trying to get the players to learn the system until it becomes second nature. This will be extremely taxing on them also. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we have a few more flat performances between now and the end of the season but we just have to keep in mind that its fairly normal to have this sort of dip in the first season.

easley91 · Apr 15, 2024

Bumps in the road in the first season were to be expected. Some really don't have the stomach or patience for this and that becomes clearer with any defeat or poor performance. IT IS THE FIRST SEASON. There were inevitably going to be setbacks as we bed in a new system and a new, young squad.

The major concern for me at the moment is the conceding from set pieces, which is staggering considering in the first half of this campaign we barely conceded from any. In fact I think we went the longest without conceding from one at all in the league or something like that? That Ake goal in the cup opened a floodgate that we seem to be unable to shut.

We cannot be changing a manager again so quickly. We NEED stability and structure. Otherwise we will be in this cycle forever. Give the man time. If in another year or two we regress or stand still then look at it. Otherwise give him a chance to see what he can do.

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