A question of the CM2

[Shadydan]

We are in a different season now if he wants that role, he will have to fight for it.

Well then you can't judge him in the no10 role this season then as he hasn't played there.

 

[olliec]

It's a long season ahead and having someone like Dembele as back up is not a bad option to be honest...

 

[danielneeds]

I know Poch has been playing him higher up the pitch, but now we're definitely playing with one holding player and one box to box midfielder, as opposed to the double pivot, I'd be surprised if Poch doesn't try Dembele there when Dier needs a rest.

His defensive abilities are severely underrated. He intercepts and reads the game well, and obviously has his strength to call on. As long as we're not asking him to be the dynamic midfielder, I'd be happy with him sitting in.

 

[diamond lights]

Bentaleb has had a great start to his career and taken a dip in form in the few games he has played this season. Had a pretty decent game before the injury if I recall. He's young and works hard in training judging from all the reports. Poch and the coaching staff will be working hard with him to cut out the simple errors.
There's a beast of a player there. He, Dier, Alli and Mason will all get runs in the team over the season and all are vital for us. We may play over 60 games. That's an average of 30 each and for players at age 19, 20, 21 and 23 that's plenty of game time.

 

[ravo]

Dier & Mason in the league.
Bentaleb & Alli in the cups.
Dembele in the cups, but in the three behind the striker.

 

[diamond lights]

Dier & Mason in the league.
Bentaleb & Alli in the cups.
Dembele in the cups, but in the three behind the striker.

At the minute I agree but the beauty of it is that any one of the four can force the issue by their form. Kane was a cup striker at the start of last season until he forced the coaching staff by playing so well in the cups that he made the League side. Great options and all the better as all four look to have great attitudes. You can start to see what Poch is trying to build.

 

[Cravenspurs]

People can look back at my history, not a Bentaleb fan.

Mason > Bentaleb

Better vision, better at going forward, and better tackler

Alli >>>>> Bentaleb

Better vision, better at going forward, and better tackler

Dembele > Bentaleb

Better vision, better at going forward, and better tackler.

Alli > Mason > Dembele > Bentaleb

Dier Alli
Dier Mason
Dembele Alli
Dembele Mason

For me Bentaleb is the player we sell. Young, more value, and I dislike his attitude. From rumors about the new contract he has a big head and I see little fight in him when compared to Dier, Mason, and Alli.

 

[CJMurray]

Dembele > Bentaleb

Better vision.

Better vision

Better vision

Better vision

Better vision

Better vision

 

[spurs9]

This is the strength and 'like to haves' of our CMs:

Mason Strength
High stamina/tries to get forward/decent passing range/willingness to put a foot in/consistent

Mason weakness
Composure in front of goal/not great on the ball/uncreative

Bentalab Strength
Best passing range/accuracy of our CMs; best long shot/most creative/decent on the ball

Bentalab weaknesses
Concentration/rarely gets forward/has not performed since signing contract

Ali Strength
High stamina/tries to get forward/likes to dribble

Alli weakness
Gives the ball away

Dier strength
Aerial attack/defence from CM/high stamina/recovers ball higher up the pitch

Dier weakness
Most limited passing range/not comfortable on the ball under pressure

I think if Bentalab gets back on form our best combo against teams that park the bus is Mason/Bentalab.
If we were to play counter attack its Mason/Dier.
I think we have been lucky that our opponents haven't decided to put someone specifically on Dier; if they do I think we would have trouble playing our game.

Mason is more creative than Bentaleb. Last season, Mason created almost double the amount chances per 90 than Bentaleb and had twice as many assists per 90 too.

 

[JayB]

Milos. Look no further. Very good young player who captained his country to the u 20 World Cup win this year. No need to be looking elsewhere for a young back up DM cum CB.

I completely agree actually, but it seems that Poch doesn't rate him. I stand by the fact that we absolutely need to have a viable alternative to Dier, and if Poch has decided that Veljkovic won't be given an opportunity then we need to look elsewhere. I'm honestly baffled as to why he wouldn't be, though. Some have speculated that he lacks the dynamism to play a pressing game but Dier has been slotting in between the two CBs rather than pressing high up the pitch himself. I know there's the situation with his contract but I'm sure he'd be willing to extend if he were given an opportunity to be involved in the senior squad. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Flashspur]

Interesting topic (maybe partly because I was just thinking about it right now and then I saw the topic headline ).
Before the season started the CMF was a huge concern for several reasons....the 3 main being:
-No quality DM
-No quality box-to-box CM
-Concern about OMF (mainly Erksen not being constant enough).
But Dier has proved most, if not all (even Levy and Poch ) wrong; and when Bentaleb is match-fit there will be a stiff competition - but only if Bentaleb manage to step up his game.
Both Alli and Mason have had outstanding games this season.
Dembele has been far from as bad as a few on SC make it look like.
Now it just remains to be seen if Prtichard too can make the step up and if Carroll can keep on improving.
It is hard to say who's the better between Alli and Mason right now; I am glad it is Poch's decision.
To day's game is a squad game based on rotation so as long as all players are no fire I am not that concerned about who starts...

You would think that for Alli, the potential, if he keeps improving, is huge. The kid is only 19. Dier is only 21 and he is going off like a Hong Kong cracker at the moment. He is looking like a future England prospect at CDM. The boy owned the central midfield the other day and he seems to get better at reading the game each time he plays. With all the games to come, you would think that Mason and Benteleb are going to get a lot of game time as well. Dembele will also come in handy as will Winks and Onomah. Its not an issue who plays CM as much as it is having the players who can cover for each other as injuries and fatigue take their toll.

 

[cliff jones]

simply sell dembele

Simply sell wee Tom. nowhere defensively, including when it mattered v the scum last week.

But md contract situation needs to be resolved. If he wants to play it out he is expendable.

Theres enough games for the others to go around.

 

[Imnotacticalgenius]

IMHO Dembele should be out of this discussion (this season anyway) as he is being played mostly in one of the 3 AM position (Right AM/WF). This is the same for Onomah. So that leaves Dier, Mason, Bentaleb, Alli, Carroll and Winks. 6 players of the DM in the club first team CM2.

Personally to me, i see Bentaleb and Winks as the alternative to Dier. Alli and Carroll as the alternative to Mason at this moment. Best 2 CM2 pairing at this present of time should be Dier and Mason (Alli coming in close behind Mason to partner Dier). I think beside Bentaleb, all 5 of the players mentioned above, has proven to show improvements and able to slot into the team without changing much of the way the first team play. Bentaleb needs to be fully fit and improve fast (cut down on his "same" mistakes), if he is to "dethrone" Dier and i believe that Winks is just a notch behind Bentaleb and constantly improving. I truly see Winks to be "immense" in 2 years time. Personally to me, he has the "upside" to be at least Dier's present level up....

So based on tactical game plan, MoPo has a good selection of players to choose.......tactical plans of playing against team that attacks, team that sits and defend, team that overloads the CM position, team that attacks from the wings etc etc.....

Maybe in 2-4 years time, all of Dier (if he continues to be played as DM), Mason, Alli, Winks and Carroll will be playing in the England senior squad as a DMF (not at the same time though). This is how great, i see the potential these players have in our first team. COYs!!!

 

[Mullers]

Well then you can't judge him in the no10 role this season then as he hasn't played there.

I'm judging him as a player.

 

[Mullers]

Simply sell wee Tom. nowhere defensively, including when it mattered v the scum last week.

But md contract situation needs to be resolved. If he wants to play it out he is expendable.

Theres enough games for the others to go around.

The guy hasn't half the chances Dembele has at the very least he should have a chance to show what he can do during the course of this season.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

I completely agree actually, but it seems that Poch doesn't rate him. I stand by the fact that we absolutely need to have a viable alternative to Dier, and if Poch has decided that Veljkovic won't be given an opportunity then we need to look elsewhere. I'm honestly baffled as to why he wouldn't be, though. Some have speculated that he lacks the dynamism to play a pressing game but Dier has been slotting in between the two CBs rather than pressing high up the pitch himself. I know there's the situation with his contract but I'm sure he'd be willing to extend if he were given an opportunity to be involved in the senior squad. It just doesn't make any sense.

From what I have read, it is more about his contract situation as opposed to Pochettino not rating him. Swings and roundabouts for that argument I suppose. But I do agree that Milos could slot in as an added option.

 

[cliff jones]

The guy hasn't half the chances Dembele has at the very least he should have a chance to show what he can do during the course of this season.

and he wont get that many either. Hes fifth or sixth choice because he lacks an all round game to play in the cdm2.

 

[carpediem1906]

I think in this discussion thus far we have largely focused on individual players' strengths rather than how they fit how the team is going to play

Since Son arrived, it has become obvious what Poch is trying to build all along

1) a solid defence - strong spine of GK, 2 CBs, 1 specialist CDM protector

2) a fluid interchanging attacking 3,4,5 (want to create a goal scoring opportunity with as little time and passes as possible)

We have seen how
1) Son and Alli's running into spaces
2) Lamela Son and Kane's pressing
3) Dier being a rock
have lifted weight on shoulders and allowed us to fly

Hence the 2 CM (all 11 in fact) must know their roles in the bigger scheme of poch's strategy, and why we shipped so many goals last season

Right now it appears to be Dier + Mason/Alli for best fit

And also why it is difficult to envisage Dembele, Caroll, Chadli (even Eriksen tbh) with us beyond 2016/2017

I even reckon that in current best case scenario, all 3 of Mason Bentaleb and Alli are actually fighting for the same spot alongside and if Dier is fit

Bentaleb / Mason and Dembele / Alli being the other possible pairs