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Against the spin

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
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Following a comment by Davidmatzdorf about posters responding to the spin put on comments by players or Harry by the media rather than responding to the words themselves I find the recent Van Der Vaart situation interesting.

Under the headline 'Annoying' Rafael Van Der Vaart on his Official Website comments on either being excluded from the Europa squad for the opening games or for not being consulted about the decision, it is not clear to me which.

'I still think it's a peculiar situation. Spurs could at least have consulted me. Anyway it's up to the point of no return. I will be focusing on the game against Liverpool. I'm pretty convinced I will be fit by then thanks to Dick van Toorn.'

(This phrase is a bit obscure too and may have lost something in translation which is another difficulty.)

Whether he will or not be fit remains to be seen and whether Harry ever intended him to be part of the first phase of the Europa Cup competition is open to doubt

Most media outlets have the bare bones of the story correct but almost all present the matter in a different way with a different slant. Remember all papers have an agenda, most of them love Harry at the moment because he gives good copy and is very accessible and he might well be the next England Manager. Plenty of time for the knives to come out then. In the meantime as far as the media and Harry are concerned what's not too like?

In this case it is fairly easy to access the actual content from the Website but a quick trawl of Newsnow on the day produces the following :
:
'annoying' which is Rafael's own word although even this is not clearly from Van Der Vaart himself but could be a sub heading by an editor; Rafael 'irked' (the Telegraph as you might guess); Van Der Vaart 'snubbed' which may or not be true; 'unhappy' possibly but not in the piece; 'fuming' unsupported by any evidence; 'rants', not in the piece; 'disappointed', possibly but not in the piece.

None of these words appears on the website apart from 'annoying' and are all spin.

When an interview is transferred from sound to print as Harry's often are, there is even more likelihood of misinterpretation or deliberate manipulation.

The words on the page rarely reflect the tone or mood of the interview.

Throwaway lines or 'jokey' asides which are Harry's forte are clear opportunities to distort the meaning of the words. Smiles, raised eyebrows, shakes of the head, telling glances are all missing.
Interviews are often printed as if they were continuous speeches when they are usually question and answer sessions which leads to statements sounding much more positive than they actually are.

'Would you like to play in Italy sometime Mr Sandro?'
Becomes 'Sandro seeks Italy move'.

So when fans on SC spin the spin serious errors can occur particularly if members have an agenda of their own and let's face it most of us do to some extent.

'Harry Haters' will use the situation to criticise Harry's 'man management skills', the typical high-handed Harry not consulting his senior players kind of line. Exactly what 'consulting' means is open to discussion too. Is it informing him before the announcement or discussing the matter with him in advance. It is difficult to tell.

Van Der Vaart haters who regard his injury as a 'blessing in disguise ' will see this as another example of his self important attitude and refusal to accept that he is just a big fish in a smaller pool after Real Madrid.

It now becomes in the media's mind a battle of wills between Harry and the Dutchman which is to insert some sort of back story into an event unsupported by the facts on this occasion.

He says himself that he is 'annoyed' in the same way that Gomes is 'unhappy' about his situation. But unless you access the original material or watch the video then you are responding to someone else's version of events.

Even in this simple situation with the original material short and easily available a quick glance at the Spurs Chat or even the Front page will reveal a host of hidden agendas which have little to do with the original story.

The facts get lost in a whirl of opinions. Fun it may be but a search for truth and beauty it most certainly is not.

So before you go off on one try to make sure that your opinions are supported by the facts; access the original material if possible and make sure you are not building your castle on sand.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
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45,030
That's a really good and detailed summary of the kind of thing I'm always going on about. I may well steal some of that for future use, if it's OK with you.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
That's a really good and detailed summary of the kind of thing I'm always going on about. I may well steal some of that for future use, if it's OK with you.
Steal away Mr. matzdorf, I often nick your stuff without even telling you.:)
 

wee_spur

SC Supporter
Feb 18, 2005
550
435
Good article and raises a lot of very good, valid points. Well done sir! I hope that people take this on board but have a feeling they won't unfortunately.
 

Kingstheman

No longer BSoDL
Mar 13, 2006
5,831
2,991
Good article, however, I often post on these ones just to see my ranking...

And it is David Ginola.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,366
67,005
Following... Davidmatzdorf... I find... interesting.

'Annoying' Rafael Van Der Vaart... excluded... being consulted about... me

'I... peculiar... Anyway. up to the... game against Liverpool... I will be fit by then thanks to Dick.

I will admit, i did skim read, but i'm not sure i like your tone, young man! :think:
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
12,710
16,808
If this was an isolated incident then i think less would be made of it, but this isn't the first time VDV has criticised Harry publicly, which is why i believe more is being made out of it than perhaps is there.
 

Jeremy

Member
Jan 16, 2004
68
1
If this was an isolated incident then i think less would be made of it, but this isn't the first time VDV has criticised Harry publicly, which is why i believe more is being made out of it than perhaps is there.

I think your post highlights the point Jimmy and DM have been making about never letting the truth stand in the way of a good rant...

Its interesting when you do go back to the source.. While the English heading is "Annoying", the Dutch version of the website has the heading "dit is balen!", presumably the correct quote. Which is translated as "This sucks"

I'm no entomologist or phylatelist (clearly), but "This sucks" implies a frustration about the situation, whereas "Annoying" could be aimed at a person.

The site states he was “treated for four days intensively by Dick van Toorn (daily treatments took up to 6 or 7 hours)", "Amsterdam Medical Hospital assured Rafael he would be sidelined for at least a month" and "Harry Redknapp decided not to enlist Rafael because of his injury and expected recovery time of 6 to 8 weeks".

Its understandable that if you go through this all and prove the doctors wrong, it would suck...

The criticism "They could at least have consulted me on this" - note the plural "they" is obviously not pointed at Harry, and in reality Harry would have taken advice from the Spurs medical staff.

Also the frustration "it sucks" and criticism "could at least have consulted me" are small phrases in a longer narrative that highlights the lower prioritisation of the EL, including the collaborative positive statement "so soon Redknapp can now count on an eager player for the game against Liverpool."

Brasil, can you explain how then you can conclude that the website is criticising Harry publicly????
 

tomo

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2003
1,094
425
Bit off topic but the fact of the matter is is that rafa should not be going public with his opinions about this. He is an employee of spurs and Redknapp is his manager. Any issues should stay in house. another example of footballers getting to big for their boots.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
I think your post highlights the point Jimmy and DM have been making about never letting the truth stand in the way of a good rant...

Its interesting when you do go back to the source.. While the English heading is "Annoying", the Dutch version of the website has the heading "dit is balen!", presumably the correct quote. Which is translated as "This sucks"

I'm no entomologist or phylatelist (clearly), but "This sucks" implies a frustration about the situation, whereas "Annoying" could be aimed at a person.

The site states he was “treated for four days intensively by Dick van Toorn (daily treatments took up to 6 or 7 hours)", "Amsterdam Medical Hospital assured Rafael he would be sidelined for at least a month" and "Harry Redknapp decided not to enlist Rafael because of his injury and expected recovery time of 6 to 8 weeks".

Its understandable that if you go through this all and prove the doctors wrong, it would suck...

The criticism "They could at least have consulted me on this" - note the plural "they" is obviously not pointed at Harry, and in reality Harry would have taken advice from the Spurs medical staff.

Also the frustration "it sucks" and criticism "could at least have consulted me" are small phrases in a longer narrative that highlights the lower prioritisation of the EL, including the collaborative positive statement "so soon Redknapp can now count on an eager player for the game against Liverpool."

Brasil, can you explain how then you can conclude that the website is criticising Harry publicly????
Thanks, underlines the problems and difficulties nicely.
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
I think your post highlights the point Jimmy and DM have been making about never letting the truth stand in the way of a good rant...

Its interesting when you do go back to the source.. While the English heading is "Annoying", the Dutch version of the website has the heading "dit is balen!", presumably the correct quote. Which is translated as "This sucks"

I'm no entomologist or phylatelist (clearly), but "This sucks" implies a frustration about the situation, whereas "Annoying" could be aimed at a person.

The site states he was “treated for four days intensively by Dick van Toorn (daily treatments took up to 6 or 7 hours)", "Amsterdam Medical Hospital assured Rafael he would be sidelined for at least a month" and "Harry Redknapp decided not to enlist Rafael because of his injury and expected recovery time of 6 to 8 weeks".

Its understandable that if you go through this all and prove the doctors wrong, it would suck...

The criticism "They could at least have consulted me on this" - note the plural "they" is obviously not pointed at Harry, and in reality Harry would have taken advice from the Spurs medical staff.

Also the frustration "it sucks" and criticism "could at least have consulted me" are small phrases in a longer narrative that highlights the lower prioritisation of the EL, including the collaborative positive statement "so soon Redknapp can now count on an eager player for the game against Liverpool."

Brasil, can you explain how then you can conclude that the website is criticising Harry publicly????

Nice summation adding to quite a good thread. I have spent years on other sites trying to get other posters to understand the importance of first hand information when formulating an opinion. One thing I'm confused about here though ....................

How would being a stamp collector have a bearing on your ability to understand the translation from the Dutch? :grin:
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Nice summation adding to quite a good thread. I have spent years on other sites trying to get other posters to understand the importance of first hand information when formulating an opinion. One thing I'm confused about here though ....................

How would being a stamp collector have a bearing on your ability to understand the translation from the Dutch? :grin:
I didn't want to be picky but since you raise the question how does the study of insects help either.
Perhaps it lost something in translation:)
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
I had been refraining, but since someone else has refrained from refraining:

Etymologist
Philologist
 

Jeremy

Member
Jan 16, 2004
68
1
I had been refraining, but since someone else has refrained from refraining:

Etymologist
Philologist

Spose I was just obliquely making the point that (against the direness of many posts) that its all a bit of fun and we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Spose I was just obliquely making the point that (against the direness of many posts) that its all a bit of fun and we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously.
45 posts in 7 years; 'shurely shome mishtake'

If its true then you should definately post more often.
Get Rob to sub you from the 'philately' fund
as the cost of posting from Australia
must be excessive.
 

mawspurs

Staff
Jun 29, 2003
35,109
17,801
Goods points Jimmy (and David of course). I think most of us have learned to read between the lines of media stories, although not al of us have acquired that skill yet. ;-)
 
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