An FA Cup Revamp

[taricco]

Ok hear me out. I have a great idea on how we could completely revamp the fa cup to make it much more popular, watchable and exciting. I've put a lot of thought into it and think its generally a really interesting idea and would love to hear the thoughts of other sc'ers. I warn you now that it is very 'out there' (definitely not for the conservative football fan) and not fully developed (perhaps you guys could help).

Anyway, the first thing to do is abolish the FA cup in its current format and get rid of the Carling cup altogether. In place of those fixture, put in a European style Christmas break every year.

That's the boring bit. The idea would be to have, during every alternative odd numbered year (so that it falls in between euros and World Cup) an intense FA cup that happens at the end of the season in the same style as a World Cup for the domestic teams. Group stages and then knock out. Imagine it. 32 domestic teams playing each other on a pretty much daily basis for a football feast! The winner gets a spot in the Champions League.

Which 32 teams can take part? I imagine that most premiership teams would be automatically entered plus qualifiers from the lower leagues. This way if a non league team qualifies for the FA cup 'group stage' they get a guaranteed 3 games on the highest stage - what the FA cup is all about!

This new format would be super exciting (much more so than the current FA cup), allow for extra revenue (tv rights could probably be sold around the world) and allow English players and teams to get used to real tournament football. Hell, we could even say 5 plus English players per team to give younger English players a bit of much needed first team experience.

Anyway, I know it's completely theoretical, but let me know your thoughts.

 

[Syn_13]

Ok hear me out. I have a great idea on how we could completely revamp the fa cup to make it much more popular, watchable and exciting. I've put a lot of thought into it and think its generally a really interesting idea and would love to hear the thoughts of other sc'ers. I warn you now that it is very 'out there' (definitely not for the conservative football fan) and not fully developed (perhaps you guys could help).

Anyway, the first thing to do is abolish the FA cup in its current format and get rid of the Carling cup altogether. In place of those fixture, put in a European style Christmas break every year.

That's the boring bit. The idea would be to have, during every alternative odd numbered year (so that it falls in between euros and World Cup) an intense FA cup that happens at the end of the season in the same style as a World Cup for the domestic teams. Group stages and then knock out. Imagine it. 32 domestic teams playing each other on a pretty much daily basis for a football feast! The winner gets a spot in the Champions League.

Which 32 teams can take part? I imagine that most premiership teams would be automatically entered plus qualifiers from the lower leagues. This way if a non league team qualifies for the FA cup 'group stage' they get a guaranteed 3 games on the highest stage - what the FA cup is all about!

This new format would be super exciting (much more so than the current FA cup), allow for extra revenue (tv rights could probably be sold around the world) and allow English players and teams to get used to real tournament football. Hell, we could even say 5 plus English players per team to give younger English players a bit of much needed first team experience.

Anyway, I know it's completely theoretical, but let me know your thoughts.

Sorry, but with the risk of sounding like someone off Dragon's Den - I'm out.

The reason why it drags on through the year is because it starts early, where the non-league teams will play in their rounds in order to challenge the big boys. Part of the FA Cup magic for me is when you get small clubs with part timers playing against teams like United and sometimes pulling results out of their arses.

At the end of a season clubs want to unwind and start pre-season/transfer window preperations and not have to think about another competition. It's different with the Internationals as it's a different kettle of fish.

As for giving the FA Cup winner a CL spot. If you'd have said that to me about 10 years ago I'd have been all for it, but right now it makes me panic as we'd just end up getting shat on again knowing our luck.

I wouldn't be against scrapping the League Cup or doing something different with that instead. Most countries don't even have a competition like that.

 

[taricco]

Thanks for the feedback.

Sorry if it wasn't clear but the non league clubs would still get a chance to qualify as normal for the group stages. In fact, if they do they get three games against different high profile opposition. In fact the magic would still be there.

Clubs, players and managers are constantly moaning for a winter break. This way they get one and get fewer games in a season but have a great tournament at the end. A few extra weeks of football could benefit clubs from a monetary perspective without taking up too much summer time.

Finally to not want a competition as we may get shat on is a bit defeatist (although as a spurs fan I suppose this is our normal level of feeling) anyway, it's not for everyone but for me would revive a dated and lousy competition.

 

[UncleBuck]

dead duck my friend and on that basis I'm out too ;-)

 

[taricco]

dead duck my friend and on that basis I'm out too ;-)

I'm looking for a little bit of entrepreneurialism here. Not the Deborah Meaden kind.

 

[nightgoat]

No.

 

[kr1978]

Nope- I love the barrage of non stop football over Christmas so I'm out too

 

[taricco]

They all laughed at Christopher Colombus...

 

[Monkey Bastard Hands]

Nah. The only thing they need to do to the FA Cup is bring the final back to Saturday afternoons at the very end of the season.

 

[mattdefoe]

theres no real build up to games, no random one off ties because of group stages. Its all a bit crammed and the security and other issues etc.. just wouldn't work... Concept would be cool for the carling cup I think minus the CL bit , could be used as the last opportunity to win a trophy that season.

 

[werty]

They only need to change three things to make it better. 1) Giveit to someone (anyone!) other than ITV, 2) Move the semi's to the Millennium Stadium and/or Old Trafford and 3) Move it to the week (or following week if one of the teams is in the CL final) after the league ends.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I don't think the FA Cup needs to be changed too much other than what people have already said (semis not at Wembley and have the final as the last game of the season...and not at 5.30pm!).

I do wonder though what the point of the League Cup is these days. Not many people seem to be going to the games, even the smaller teams don't take it that seriously (Bradford excepted) and it creates a backlog of fixtures if you get into the final few rounds.

It might be better just to scrap it and give the extra Europa place to the league.

 

[sherbornespurs]

They only need to change three things to make it better. 1) Giveit to someone (anyone!) other than ITV, 2) Move the semi's to the Millennium Stadium and/or Old Trafford and 3) Move it to the week (or following week if one of the teams is in the CL final) after the league ends.

Agree wholeheartedly. The 'suits' at the FA are keen to remind us every season of the magic of the FA cup yet we all know these are empty words, and as a result of their destructive actions season after season they go out of their way to tarnish the competition.

Insisting on playing the semi-finals at Wembley - wrong. Playing league matches on the same day as the final - wrong. Playing league matches after the Cup Final - wrong. Arranging a kick-off time for the Final so that fans miss the last train home - wrong. Allowing a club to 'opt out' for a season (Manchester United 1999/2000) - wrong.

The Cup Final should be the glorious culmination of the domestic English football season, and I find it outrageous that the custodians of the worlds greatest domestic knock-out trophy treat it with so much contempt.

A few years back I did the 'FA cup run'. Selecting a non-league team at random, in this case Odd Down FC from Bath at the 1st stage of the competition in August (Extra Preliminary round), I followed the subsequent winners from each round through to the final the following May. It included trips to Taunton, Merthyr Tydfil (3 times), Bournemouth, Crewe, Walsall and Barnsley amongst others. I almost got snowed-in coming back from Barnsley, arrived home at 3am following a replay at Crewe on a cold, wet Tuesday night in October and nearly got a kicking from Chelsea and Liverpool fans (long story) at the semi-final stage.

Perhaps the idiots at the FA should think about doing something similar. Foregoing their chauffeur driven limo's, along with their corporate hospitality and hermetically sealed private boxes, and try mixing it with the fans for once in their lives. That way they might actually get a proper feeling for the competition and what it means to grass-root football fans.

Good OP. Well done for opening up the debate, it's a pity the FA don't do something similar.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Agree wholeheartedly. The 'suits' at the FA are keen to remind us every season of the magic of the FA cup yet we all know these are empty words, and as a result of their destructive actions season after season they go out of their way to tarnish the competition.

Insisting on playing the semi-finals at Wembley - wrong. Playing league matches on the same day as the final - wrong. Playing league matches after the Cup Final - wrong. Arranging a kick-off time for the Final so that fans miss the last train home - wrong. Allowing a club to 'opt out' for a season (Manchester United 1999/2000) - wrong.

The Cup Final should be the glorious culmination of the domestic English football season, and I find it outrageous that the custodians of the worlds greatest domestic knock-out trophy treat it with so much contempt.

A few years back I did the 'FA cup run'. Selecting a non-league team at random, in this case Odd Down FC from Bath at the 1st stage of the competition in August (Extra Preliminary round), I followed the subsequent winners from each round through to the final the following May. It included trips to Taunton, Merthyr Tydfil (3 times), Bournemouth, Crewe, Walsall and Barnsley amongst others. I almost got snowed-in coming back from Barnsley, arrived home at 3am following a replay at Crewe on a cold, wet Tuesday night in October and nearly got a kicking from Chelsea and Liverpool fans (long story) at the semi-final stage.

Perhaps the idiots at the FA should think about doing something similar. Foregoing their chauffeur driven limo's, along with their corporate hospitality and hermetically sealed private boxes, and try mixing it with the fans for once in their lives. That way they might actually get a proper feeling for the competition and what it means to grass-root football fans.

Good OP. Well done for opening up the debate, it's a pity the FA don't do something similar.

That sounds awesome! Would love to do that at some stage.

Completely agree with everything you say though with regards to the way the FA have cheapened the tournament.

 

[mpickard2087]

I posted some suggestions for its improvement (mainly of the final and making it more prestigious) back during the game a couple of weeks ago. Lets find it quickly and C&P it...

"Its probably been done to death, but in my opinion it would be nice if they tried to raise the profile/aura of the FA Cup rather than seeming to aid the downward spiral it has been on the last 10-15 years. Some of the things they could do:

- First of all, playing at Wembley has to be seen as 'special' and a sense of achievement. Playing the semi-finals there should be scrapped ASAP. Its a joke.

- To add to that point, I don't think the League Cup can be saved so would not play the final of that at Wembley. I would have the final of that at alternating venues (Old Trafford, Millennium Stadium, Emirates etc), maybe even try out other stadia (eg. Twickenham), look to take it to neighbouring countries where English football still gets a lot of support (Aviva Stadium, Hampden Park) or even further abroad still. Keep rotating the venue each year adds some interest and variety, linking back to the FA Cup, if only the final of that is at Wembley it gains more importance and honour with the decreased chance of playing there.

- Kick off time: I understand they want TV viewers, its a difficult one though with traditionalists. It should be though either at 3pm or prime time at 7.45pm. 5.15pm is a nothing, inbetween time slot that is the worst option.

- Look to up the prize money, easier said than done though I guess.

- It should be the last game of the season, and no other games played on that weekend. Again, symbolic to the importance/magnitude of the event."

That's my input

 

[taricco]

All I'm proposing here is a domestic football feat every two years. It would be like the World Cup, only better, as it would be with spurs and not boring old England. It would be intense, exciting and make the FA cup actually mean something again.

I don't agree with the posters that say it needs a few changes to make it better. It's currently a poor product, playing a second fiddle (by a long way) to the premier league. For me I don't care about it at all unless we reach the latter stages. It's often an unwelcome distraction from the excitement of the premiership rather than something to properly look forward to. Changing the venue or the date of the final may be decent suggestions but aren't the drastic revamp this cup needs.

Take a second to actually think about my initial proposal. It would be amazing - one of the amazing tournaments in global football.

 

[spud]

Good OP. Well done for opening up the debate, it's a pity the FA don't do something similar.

As sherbornespurs said, kudos for the OP and opening the debate, even though I don't agree with much of what was said. For example:

All I'm proposing here is a domestic football feat every two years. It would be like the World Cup, only better, as it would be with spurs and not boring old England. It would be intense, exciting and make the FA cup actually mean something again.

While this is in theory an appealing idea, to stage a 32-team tournament with group stages followed by knockout would take weeks, possibly the whole of the summer. For that reason alone, it's a non-starter.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the current format of the Cup. What is wrong is the tinkering (such as semi-finals at Wembley, limiting the number of replays etc.) and - primarily - the way that the FA has let it be sidelined by the Prem. It is this latter aspect that needs to be addressed for it to regain its lost prestige (and consequent importance) rather than employing gimmicks to make it 'different'.

 

[Annabel]

I loved the FA cup in the 80s / 90s. It was really special, Wimbledon beating Liverpool, great TV and FA Cup day was exciting even if your team wasn't in it!

However, I really like your tournament cup idea. Get rid of the league cup, don't let ITV have anything to do with it, and ensure clubs have to play at least 3 home grown under 23s.

I don't like the Xmas break idea though. It's bad enough having the stupid international breaks.