Are we the next Sevilla?

[Krafty]

2005 Sevilla sell Sergio Ramos and Julio Baptista to Real Madrid for around 50 million euros.

They then go onto to win the uefa cup twice, spanish cup and super cup.

Something to think about.

 

[Shanks]

I'd be chuffed to bits if that happened, but of course change the spanish cup to the FA Cup...

 

[mil1lion]

Thats what Ramos was famous for. Achieving great things with lesser players. He now has his best squad ever. I am still very confident that we can achieve great things this season.

 

[SlunkSoma]

its all about the squad with Ramos, not so much 'star' players as such just all round quality. He is focusing not on a couple of players skill but developing the unit which we have not been doing previously. Once these boys gel we'll see a bloody strong team, each with an understanding of how their team mates work.

 

[addlestonespur]

I'd be happy to see us win the FA cup especially if United or liverpool didn't win anything and we beat either of them them in the final.

 

[thetallaghttiger]

our carling cup success was built upon great forward and attacking play.

I think our future success will be built upon a very strong defence, if Ramos can get our team defending as a unit, we could achieve similar success that Ramos had at Sevilla

 

[addlestonespur]

our carling cup success was built upon great forward and attacking play.

I think our future success will be built upon a very strong defence, if Ramos can get our team defending as a unit, we could achieve similar success that Ramos had at Sevilla

swap Corluka for the Zok seen that video of him playing DM for citeh against Newcastle, passes like that finding Bentley/Gio/Lennon/Bent :drool:

 

[SpurSince57]

That might have to wait until Hutton gets back.

 

[thetallaghttiger]

swap Corluka for the Zok seen that video of him playing DM for citeh against Newcastle, passes like that finding Bentley/Gio/Lennon/Bent :drool:

well for the next game, Corluka will come straight into the team at RB. After that, he may fill in at CB if King needs to be rested. Personally, I just don't see Corluka ever playing as a DM. We have Hudd and Zokora for that.

 

[danielneeds]

swap Corluka for the Zok seen that video of him playing DM for citeh against Newcastle, passes like that finding Bentley/Gio/Lennon/Bent :drool:

We don't need the defensive midfielder to be spraying balls around, that is Modric's job. We need someone with pace to cover holes infront of the defence and fill the holes when Bale and Hutton bomb forward.

 

[SpurOfGlory]

Good to see positive posts about the future and the Sevilla story under Ramos was inspiring and I was delighted we got him.
People tried to put it down to Monchi etc but Ramos built the side and got the best out of them playing some of the most devestating attacking football you will see,he got the best out of Julio Baptista which no one else did and had this player no one could be sure what was his position as he scored 50 league goals in two seasons,the side defended and attacked like madmen for 90 minutes all season and produced unknown talents into world class players under Ramos.
It's early stages for us so far,the foundations are being built still but there have been big upgrades in quality and a effort to improve our weaknesses,once the side settles and gets into a rhythm we will very hard to beat.
All the Man City stuff these last few days has been funny,talking dream teams that will cost millions and realistically won't happen would be pointless if it was possible because the best sides are built from scratch and are developed over time even with more than one manager,the squad now is getting very close minus two or three players to being a superb squad with all the right ingredients for sustained success.
Up front natural finishers,the full backs being strong committed challengers with good attacking ability and quality delivery while a midfield that is so comfortable and passes and moves and understands retaining possession and being positionally aware to pass and move will rip teams open.
Im more excited about this side than a club that wants go the Real Madrid galactico's way and that never worked even for Real.
We need players fighting for the club not big ego's,everyone does their job and not leave the side unbalanced and disjointed.
Im certain great times are just around the corner.

 

[tRiKS]

I understand the comparison. Sells best two players, goes on to build a better team.
But really there is more to it, Ramos and Baptshita were from two differnt areas of the pitch where as keane and Berb are both the starting CF's.

If Keane and *King had been sold, would the squad as it is cope better than it has done so far?

*assume for this question Berbatov wants to stay and it's kings dream to play for utd (YAWN)

 

[yanno]

Just for the record, Juande Ramos joined Sevilla in the summer of 2005.

Reyes was sold to the scum in 2004; both Julio Baptista & Sergio Ramos went to Real Madrid during the summer of 2005. So these three "big players" were out the door before Juande put his first Sevilla team on the pitch.

Given their subsequent form, Sevilla got good money for Reyes (now on loan at Benfica) & Baptista. Sergio Ramos was often a RB for Sevilla, and they already had Dani Alves at the club, who imo is a better player.

Juande personally targetted Kanoute as the replacement for Baptista, and Kanoute is a much better linking striker than Baptista. Baptista may have a Brazilian passport, but it's Fredi who's got the skill & technique of a Brazilian. Reyes was replaced by the likes of Adriano, Puerta and eventually Capel.

Our biggest losses this summer are obviously Berba and Keane. They've effectively been replaced with Pavlyuchenko and Bent. However, the rest of the team (GK, defence & midfield) is definitely stronger than the side Juande inherited, and it's now up to him to mould a strong squad into a team that can win, week in, week out.

 

[fazza]

Interesting post, the big star has moved on and with that the cancer that had been infecting the club the last year, I can see Ramos building a very good team here, a good solid unit. We could suprise alot this season as although nobody stand's out like the Ronaldo's, Torres's or Fabregas's we do have an excellent bunch of players with great skill and technique, I wouldn't be suprised if we did go on and win the UEFA.

 

[kcmei]

The team we have at the moment is still very raw and game by game the team will build in confidence and will be considerable stronger than the previous game. Players will realise what works and what doesnt and begin to find openings in games. If we beat villa in the next game i believe we will have reached a level to compete with the top 4.

 

[walworthyid]

Now that I am starting to get over my post-window depression I honestly believe that Ramos can build a very strong team. If you look at the type of players he has brought in they are exactly the type you would expect in a Ramos squad; young, technically strong, fit and quick players that will be prepared to work their socks off for the team. In all honesty, apart from the scum, Seville played the best attacking football in Europe during the period that Ramos was in charge and while we have been less than impressive for the most part since he took over he hasn't really had a chance to impose himself on the players.

Our main problems are in central midfield and up front. Darren Bent will never, NEVER, be technically proficient enough to help with ball retention. It is simply not in his game, he is a finisher, pure and simple. This means that we have to move the team up slowly or sit deep and play balls over the top or into the channels. If we play him and Pavylichenko, who I must confess I have never watched properly, they will need to hit it off well because Bent has not shown at any point in his career that he can play off of or in front of a partner.

In midfield, Jenas is simply not the type of player that we need. In effect, he is a very neutral influence, as he neither contributes to attacking play or defensive. Yes he can track back and tackle and yes he can get forward and shoot, but he does neither of these things on a consistent or predictable basis. On Sunday we essentially played with 8 outfield players for long periods because Bent stood in the centre circle waiting for the ball Jenas did what Jenas does, not alot.

When we replace these 2 players we will begin to see a real team develop that can retain the ball when under pressure and who can win away from home.

 

[yanno]

Now that I am starting to get over my post-window depression I honestly believe that Ramos can build a very strong team. If you look at the type of players he has brought in they are exactly the type you would expect in a Ramos squad; young, technically strong, fit and quick players that will be prepared to work their socks off for the team. In all honesty, apart from the scum, Seville played the best attacking football in Europe during the period that Ramos was in charge and while we have been less than impressive for the most part since he took over he hasn't really had a chance to impose himself on the players.

I agree. Frankly, if Woodgate - as a senior player - did have a go at Berbatov in training, then it may be just what our squad needed. Berba is a fabulous player, but the team have to get used to life without him. Fast.

We're very strong in goal and in defence, and packed with technically outstanding attacking midfielders. If Pavlyuchenko can come in and a do a good job linking the play (and scoring some goals too), and Ramos can build what Mourinho calls a "group mentality", then we should have a good season.

Our main problems are in central midfield and up front. Darren Bent will never, NEVER, be technically proficient enough to help with ball retention. It is simply not in his game, he is a finisher, pure and simple. This means that we have to move the team up slowly or sit deep and play balls over the top or into the channels. If we play him and Pavylichenko, who I must confess I have never watched properly, they will need to hit it off well because Bent has not shown at any point in his career that he can play off of or in front of a partner.

I entirely agree that Bent will never "help with ball retention". He's not the type of striker who plays with his back to goal and links play. However, didn't he have a very successful season at Ipswich playing off Shefqi Kuqi, who is a target man?

 

[walworthyid]

I agree. Frankly, if Woodgate - as a senior player - did have a go at Berbatov in training, then it may be just what our squad needed. Berba is a fabulous player, but the team have to get used to life without him. Fast.

We're very strong in goal and in defence, and packed with technically outstanding attacking midfielders. If Pavlyuchenko can come in and a do a good job linking the play (and scoring some goals too), and Ramos can build what Mourinho calls a "group mentality", then we should have a good season.



I entirely agree that Bent will never "help with ball retention". He's not the type of striker who plays with his back to goal and links play. However, didn't he have a very successful season at Ipswich playing off Shefqi Kuqi, who is a target man?

He did I think but I am not convinced that he knows how to make runs or to show for shorter balls.

I think he will continue to struggle.

 

[Hoowl]

I was listening to a pod cast that said we should concentrate a bit more on coaches actually coaching the players he has. Whenever a manager gets sacked and someone else gets brought in fans always call for new signings but we often don't think about the coach improving what he's got. You get the feeling like managers like wenger are particulalr good at this and whatever arsenal team goes onto the pitch they will give a good performance. I think ramos has a great pool of players to pick from and given his record at Seville I'm expecting big things from our players.

Sorry if I went slightly off topic

 

[yanno]

He did I think but I am not convinced that he knows how to make runs or to show for shorter balls.

I think he will continue to struggle.

Imo Bent is now competing for one position with Fraizer Campbell as, from what I've seen, they're very similar types of player who both look to run in behind.

If Pav, our creative midfielders and Bent get on the same wavelength, and Bent can get on the end of through balls and flick ons, I would expect him to score a lot of goals. He is a good finisher. Indeed, his finishing is by far the strongest part of his game.

Luis Fabiano has scored 40 goals in 80 games playing ahead of Kanoute at Sevilla in a formation designed by Ramos. Fabiano had a cheap buyout clause but neither Real Madrid nor Barca came in for him this summer. Perhaps because that Sevilla formation, with its pace and skill down the flanks, creates a ton of chances for the player in the Fabiano position. So, as well as scoring lots, Fabiano has probably missed too many for the big clubs to regard him as a top top player.

My point being that the player who plays furthest forward in that Ramos Sevilla/Spurs formation doesn't have to be the most technically gifted player in the team. Primarily he has to make the right runs, and know how to score goals.

Realistically, Bent & Fraizer Campell have until to the Xmas window to prove to Ramos that they can play the Fabiano role for Spurs, and stick the ball in the net on a regular basis. In they take their chances, great. If they don't, I'm sure we'll look to sign a pacy goalscorer in January.

EDIT: unless Juande decides to change his system radically, and sign Arshavin to play off Pavlyuchenko.