Arsenal

[StartingPrice]

I think this hits the nail on the head really

They've got the cash to change things eventually and added to that, teams such as Everton, Newcastle, Southampton, Watford, etc, just haven't stepped up a level to put Arsenal under even more pressure.

The only two things that might effect them in the short to medium term are fans' expectations and ownership mis-management.

With regards to the former, I think Arsenal fans are deluding themselves if they think they're going to become title-challengers in 2 or 3 seasons. This is a new era in the PL, where there are already 5 very good clubs established at the top of the league. A team could play out of their skin all season and still end up 4th or 5th, with no shame. If their fans don't modify their expectations, that extra pressure could be unfairly passed onto a new manager who will need time to change things.

So essentially their fans have to be patient. Our rebuilding process was much easier in some respects, because our expectations were lower; we were willing to give Poch time. I just wonder whether they'll give their new manager (whenever that will be) the 3 or 4 seasons he'll need to sort things out?

True. But this league is unremitting and unforgiving. City, United and Chelsea can outspend them. We will be closing the financial gap with them penny by penny, once our stadium if finished, at which point we will have managerial and boardroom stability, a great young manager, a great young team, a better youth set-up, state-of-the-art training facilities and a bigger and better in every way stadium. Even the Mickeys have a better team than them. But they are geared up for CL qualification. That is five teams they have to try to hunt down, with only four CL places, and a squad that, for a number of reasons, is virtually moribund. They are going to have to hope that their managerial appointments are pretty flawless, that the huge influx of new players they will have to buy all stick, and that they can overhaul at least two of their rivals, all in a fairly short time. That is nothing to do with fan expectations, and everything to do with a club and stadium built for CL football. United have more money and have spent more, and it took them three managerial appointments and even now is not certain to succeed - and at the expense of alienating large swathes of their fan-base due to the attritional nature of the football. Schadenfreude aside, it will be really interesting viewing seeing where they go in the next five/ten years.

 

[spurs9]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/mar/02/arsenal-players-arsene-wenger-meeting

Wow.....things are pretty bad:

"but he did not finish it. He choked".

Fixed

 

[spurs9]

I must be honest and say that while I am loving arsenals predicament, I do empathise with how their fans must feel. We have been worse than they are now for the majority of my spurs supporting life. It sucks real hard when your team are shit!

That being said, listening to their fans telling me that "spurs can never finish above arsenal" got real tiresome over the years. Football is a cyclical thing, it is just our turn at the moment. We should enjoy it but never forget how it feels when times aren't so great!

My dislike for Chelsea is far greater and I would love it if they ceased to exist. I really wouldn't want that to happen to Arsenal. Our rivalry is a huge part of being a spurs fan.

They're 6th, got to a cup final, where they were beaten by the best team in the country and still in the EL. Not that long ago, that would have been a very good season for us, so my heart bleeds for them.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I am not saying I wouldn't have sacked Wenger, but those who think it is a quick fix are probably wrong (unless they get very lucky).

I don't think its a quick fix at all. The longer they keep Wenger the longer it will take to sort out.

I hope they give Wenger an extension this summer.

 

[StartingPrice]

In that article the players are bemoaning the fact that they need "more help" from the coaches

Not being funny lads, but are you saying you don't know how to defend?

Pull the other one; some of you are World Cup winners

You just need to knuckle down in training and grow a pair when you step over the white line on a Saturday afternoon

No wonder you're a bunch of no-hopers...

Funnily enough, that is exactly the point. If you look at, to take an example close to hand, Pochettino, observers have talked about him working incessantly on positioning and drills, using a variety of dummies, cones and sic. He works tirelessly on this and we have one of the best defences around and one of the best any Spurs fan can ever remember seeing. Wenger's methodology, on the other hand, can large be called boiled down to buying the very best players available and assuming they are overflowing with initiative and on field tactical nous. But the quality of players has been dropping every since Chelsea pushed them out of their title as United's chief rivals, and if they don't have sufficient tactical nous it is his job to give them it. Maybe some of them should have some more, though you do have to appreciate the place confidence takes in the ability to function effectively. But the fact is, they quite clearly don't. Firstly, he is responsible for them being in the squad, if they aren't good enough, the buck stops with him, and secondly, he can't just hope things will imporve. If he can't coach them into being better maybe it just means his methodology is moribund.

 

[Gb160]

I must be honest and say that while I am loving arsenals predicament, I do empathise with how their fans must feel. We have been worse than they are now for the majority of my spurs supporting life. It sucks real hard when your team are shit!

That being said, listening to their fans telling me that "spurs can never finish above arsenal" got real tiresome over the years. Football is a cyclical thing, it is just our turn at the moment. We should enjoy it but never forget how it feels when times aren't so great!

My dislike for Chelsea is far greater and I would love it if they ceased to exist. I really wouldn't want that to happen to Arsenal. Our rivalry is a huge part of being a spurs fan.

Fuck their fans, they deserve no sympathy.
Do u think they were sympathetic towards us when we were shit in the 90s and 00s while they were hoovering up trophies? Were they bollocks, they were unbearable.
Im loving every minute of this, but I'm wary that they have the finances to turn this around very quickly if the board so wish, which we didn't have the luxury of back then.

 

[spursfan77]

Don’t think this has been posted. Craig Burley really enjoying himself here tearing into Arsenal. Enjoyable listening.

 

[spursfan77]

And therein hangs a tale. The problem with the argument that you are making is that the devil is in the detail. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point and would have been making it myself until relatively recently. But then the problem with Wenger became clearer and clearer.

Firstly, the defensive issues that permeate the team have been coming into sharper and sharper focus. Initially, he inherited a solid, British back-line. And his methods, fitness, nutrition, psychology, even improved them. But even then, in his habitually myopic way, he never saw his players being thugs but complained constantly about how physical the English league was, and how his players weren't 'protected by the referees'. Then when he lost that core of a British defensive unit, what did he do? How long had he been a manager in the English league? He must have 'known' the physical requirements. He must have had some idea of what type of defensive unit was required. They were pretty much the second team in England and a huge draw throughout the country, Europe and the World. And, moving into the new stadium, they were set to establish a financial dominance over the likes of us for all of eternity. So, just what exactly did he do about his defensive unit?

He continued to whinge about how physical the English game was. He stated publicly, over and over again, that English players were 'too expensive'. He scabbed R'Sol Campb*ll off us in a dirty, underhand manner, but otherwise, steered well clear of paying the going rate for top level English defenders or defensive midfielders.Instead he bought in a succession of cheap Continental alternatives that never quite managed to evolve into a truly solid defensive unit. It was his choice to do this. But he point blank refused to change his opinion. He thought his team should be protected because English football was too rough and never, ever, reversed that into thinking maybe he should create a team robust enough to deal with the physical side of the English game. I still remember watching his team come out against Stoke at the end of the 00s, and every Stoke player loomed over ever corresponding Arsenal player. It was so obvious how the game was going to pan out, and it did. But it was only a few clubs a season and they were still finishing well up in the league...so it didn't really matter. And Wenger was right after all, wasn't he!?! How could he not be?

And that situation has continued to this crew they have now. And what did he do in the last transfer window, the one where you are quoting his spending? I saw him being interviewed after we overran them at Wembley. He was asked about the link with Johnny Evans (now don't ask me why everyone thinks JE is some kinda universal panacea for clubs with defensive woes). He said, and I quote: "We couldn't afford him." The interviewer pressed the issue and asked why he could afford the players he did buy but not Evans, and he said he bought them first and didn't have enough money left to buy Evans. The interviewer asked him again, why, why would he pay for more attacking midfielders first when everyone could see the team needed strengthening defensively. Eventually, he just admitted the truth - he decided buying a defender just wasn't important enough. All of this is on him. For a long time the Arsenal board have been saying he has money to spend, and he has confirmed that plenty of times. He has had money to spend. I have joked, repeatedly, season after season, that no doubt he would be buying several attacking midfielders to add to the forty seven he already had, but wouldn't shell out on a proper defender or two. Then I realised it wasn't even a joke (well, it is to us ). That is really just what he does. No doubt he still boo hoos inside whenever opponents bully his beautiful side out of the game. But the reality is a team has to be built from the back. It is necessary to cut your jacket to suit your cloth - and the cloth, in this case, is English football.

He's a stubborn arrogant man who can't conceive that he could be wrong, even now that it is clear his methodologies are outdated. As for the trophies argument, when we won the CC they celebrated St Totteringham's days - indicating clearly that league position took priority over the 'minor' trophies. His obstinacy has thrown away a position where they had a team that won the league without defeat, moving into an iconic stadium, with the best youth set-up in the country, and twice the revenues we had. And rather than taking remedial action sooner rather than later, he has blustered his way through season after season, smugly pointing to finishing above us, even if it was only just and dodgy, as though that meant all is well. And now we are above them in the league, and they want to reverse their stance on league position over Cups. They are a club and a fan-base geared up to CL qualification, and for a second successive season they are primed to watch us attain it while they don't. How many more seasons can they cope with this? That is the issue. Their FA Cup triumphs of the last view seasons, while we, starved of success, wouldn't mind them, are ultimately Pyrrhic victories unless they do something drastic now, but their squad is a shambles. And that is the real issue, all of which is on Wenger.

Plus, and I’ve said this before, he’s always been shit at buying centre backs. Pascal cygan, stepenovs, paulista, djouru, senderos. The list is endless.

 

[dagraham]

Can’t believe some are feeling sorry for Arsenal fans.

They’re sixth, lost a cup final to possibly the best team in Europe and are still in the EL. Have won several FA Cups in the last 5 years.

I hope they go down even further and Wenger carries on trolling the whiney, self entitled twats until they’re all forced to gain some humility and sense of perspective.

Fuck the lot of them.

 

[spursfan77]

Can’t believe some are feeling sorry for Arsenal fans.

They’re sixth, lost a cup final to possibly the best team in Europe and are still in the EL. Have won several FA Cups in the last 5 years.

I hope they go down even further and Wenger carries on trolling the whiney, self entitled twats until they’re all forced to gain some humility and sense of perspective.

Fuck the lot of them.

Anyone who does has very very short memories. They’ve loved lording it over us for 2 decades FFS. There’s no sympathy at all. I hope they get relegated next season.

 

[Dougal]

Anyone who does has very very short memories. They’ve loved lording it over us for 2 decades FFS. There’s no sympathy at all. I hope they get relegated next season.

Not relegated, I want to be beating them every season as they struggle in the bottom half.

 

[Marty]

My dislike for Chelsea is far greater and I would love it if they ceased to exist. I really wouldn't want that to happen to Arsenal. Our rivalry is a huge part of being a spurs fan.

This I completely agree with. I have no sympathy for Arse fans or the club though. It was high time one of the big guns fell off the perch.

 

[Gb160]

Not relegated, I want to be beating them every season as they struggle in the bottom half.

Id like that to happen solely to watch AFTV after the match that confirmed their relegation....look how those clowns are reacting to sinking to the lowly depths of 6th, it'd be just glorious.

 

[hellava_tough]

Id like that to happen solely to watch AFTV after the match that confirmed their relegation....look how those clowns are reacting to sinking to the lowly depths of 6th, it'd be just glorious.

It'd be even funnier if the club confirmed that they had given Wenger a new contract, so he can take them out of the Championship and back into the Premier League

Yes folks, we're sticking with the tried and tested Frenchman

 

[dagraham]

Id like that to happen solely to watch AFTV after the match that confirmed their relegation....look how those clowns are reacting to sinking to the lowly depths of 6th, it'd be just glorious.

It would probably be a suicide pact with Troopz in the role of David Koresh..... cyanide pill is the only way out, blud.

 

[dontcallme]

Have just started reading Poch's book. Just finished reading a section on us finishing 3rd but got hammered against Newcastle. He talks for ages about the embarrassment this caused and the fact we'd just finished our highest ever Prem finish wasn't enough.

There was still something wrong in the club and changes had to be made.

This is Arsenal's problem at the moment,they are the opposite. At board and management level they seem content with how they are doing. They are making money and winning a few domestic trophies.

I have mentioned before but one of my friends is a coach and is in the Emirates on occasion. He has constantly told me about how relaxed everyone in the club is now.

They are doing OK but there is no desire to improve things.

I don't think firing Wenger is going to solve everything.There is an issue at board level as well.

Some on here have moaned at Levy for not communicating with the fans. This is despite yearly statements and interviews when big changes are made. The Arsenal board literally don't say anything. The fans are up in arms and not one word has been said.

This creates the impression that the board couldn't care less about the club or has any plan to make things better.

I think it's great.

 

[Lilbaz]

Not relegated, I want to be beating them every season as they struggle in the bottom half.

Nah. I'd love it if there was only one london club in the prem. All the kids in london growing up being spurs fans. It would be utopia.

 

[MyNameIsNicolaBerti]

Have just started reading Poch's book. Just finished reading a section on us finishing 3rd but got hammered against Newcastle. He talks for ages about the embarrassment this caused and the fact we'd just finished our highest ever Prem finish wasn't enough.

There was still something wrong in the club and changes had to be made.

This is Arsenal's problem at the moment,they are the opposite. At board and management level they seem content with how they are doing. They are making money and winning a few domestic trophies.

I have mentioned before but one of my friends is a coach and is in the Emirates on occasion. He has constantly told me about how relaxed everyone in the club is now.

They are doing OK but there is no desire to improve things.

I don't think firing Wenger is going to solve everything.There is an issue at board level as well.

Some on here have moaned at Levy for not communicating with the fans. This is despite yearly statements and interviews when big changes are made. The Arsenal board literally don't say anything. The fans are up in arms and not one word has been said.

This creates the impression that the board couldn't care less about the club or has any plan to make things better.

I think it's great.

You are absolutely right and I have been saying exactly this for the past couple of seasons.

What few Arsenal fans know is that despite their decline on the pitch, off the pitch their profit has gone up again this year. They have a chairman who just doesn't care as long as he's earning money from the club and Wenger isn't likely to go anywhere unless he himself resigns or the profits take a significant hit. Until then Kroenke is content to sit at his ranch taking little interest in the competitiveness of the club. As the old saying goes, the fish rots from the head down and the disinterest of the owner means that the board is not only hamstrung but will feel little motivation to shake it up through fear of harming the profits. Therefore the old structure remains in place. Wenger hasn't moved with the times and so just goes through the same motions season after season and the players themselves know that they are there to do just enough to take home their salaries and keep the profits rolling in. From top to bottom there is no true trophy winning mentality. There is no feeling of progression. There is no desire or drive for anyone in the club to truly push themselves.

Replacing Wenger is a band aid. It may help the club in the short term in terms of results, but how long before the institutional mentality interferes with the new stewardship? How long before a new manager walks if that manager wants to win things?

In my opinion Arsenal are doomed for as long as Kroenke stays around and fails to take an interest in competitiveness. Arsenal fans can bitch and whine all they want about the manager, the players, the board, but until Kroenke decides to sell up I think they're fucked. Good for us, but at the same time it is sad to see such a big and historic club shamelessly run into the ground by an owner who just doesn't give a shit. One thing is for sure though, the new generation of Arsenal fans, those loathsome ones with an over inflated sense of entitlement, would do well to perform a reality check and realise it's likely to either stagnate or get worse before it gets better. We'll see how many of the plastics on Arse Fan TV stick around through the dark times.

 

[hellava_tough]

Echoing sentiments already raised in this thread, the way in which Arsenal are falling apart is the biggest problem for them.

No desire, no fight, no pride; just happy to coast into mediocrity.

Compare that with the way in which we spectacularly lost the Premier League title at Stamford Bridge a couple of seasons ago. Opposition fans couldn't understand why a lot of Spurs fans were actually quite happy with the performance, as opposed to the result.

It was because for years (possibly decades) Spurs were a soft touch; a team that would lay down and die at the first sign of a contest. They were a team that opposition players thought "Great, we've got Spurs at the weekend".

Well all that ended at Stamford Bridge, where a message was sent out to every opposition player that win, lose or draw, they were doing to be in a contest when playing Spurs in the future and you'd have the bruises to prove it.

There's none of that at Arsenal.

After losing the CC, they should have come out on Thursday evening and kicked City off the park; they should have properly battered them. Even if they had lost the game by 4 or 5, red cards and all, they should have made City doubt their decision to humiliate them in a final. Give the City players a few cuts and bruises, a few aches for the week ahead. Have a brawl at half-time...throw some pizza at full-time (lol). Show the fans there's still some fight in the old-girl!!

Anyway, they'll probably lose at Brighton...

 

[dontcallme]

You are absolutely right and I have been saying exactly this for the past couple of seasons.

What few Arsenal fans know is that despite their decline on the pitch, off the pitch their profit has gone up again this year. They have a chairman who just doesn't care as long as he's earning money from the club and Wenger isn't likely to go anywhere unless he himself resigns or the profits take a significant hit. Until then Kroenke is content to sit at his ranch taking little interest in the competitiveness of the club. As the old saying goes, the fish rots from the head down and the disinterest of the owner means that the board is not only hamstrung but will feel little motivation to shake it up through fear of harming the profits. Therefore the old structure remains in place. Wenger hasn't moved with the times and so just goes through the same motions season after season and the players themselves know that they are there to do just enough to take home their salaries and keep the profits rolling in. From top to bottom there is no true trophy winning mentality. There is no feeling of progression. There is no desire or drive for anyone in the club to truly push themselves.

Replacing Wenger is a band aid. It may help the club in the short term in terms of results, but how long before the institutional mentality interferes with the new stewardship? How long before a new manager walks if that manager wants to win things?

In my opinion Arsenal are doomed for as long as Kroenke stays around and fails to take an interest in competitiveness. Arsenal fans can bitch and whine all they want about the manager, the players, the board, but until Kroenke decides to sell up I think they're fucked. Good for us, but at the same time it is sad to see such a big and historic club shamelessly run into the ground by an owner who just doesn't give a shit. One thing is for sure though, the new generation of Arsenal fans, those loathsome ones with an over inflated sense of entitlement, would do well to perform a reality check and realise it's likely to either stagnate or get worse before it gets better. We'll see how many of the plastics on Arse Fan TV stick around through the dark times.

I agree with everything you say except "Arsenal are doomed for as long as Kroenke stays around." In a way their situation is worse.

When Levy took over he fired a manager and brought in a club legend. He saw the same pattern emerging and eventually we'd get relegated unless we change many aspects of our club.

Arsenal still have a high wage budget and doing what they are will get them consistent top 6. They are in purgatory. Things aren't so bad that they will become a mid-table club or decline further.

Their setup won't see any improvement either though. They can buy highly rated players like Lacazette and Aubameyang ensuring doing well but that's it.

My ex-flatmate is an Arsenal fan. He says he is simply bored of the club now.