Attitude or Tactics?

[Cavehillspur]

Instead of blaming the midfield he needs to look at himself, he has had a hand in all 3 goals we have conceded so far this season.

He's admitted it was his mistake for the pen but he's saying the defense still needs more protection and higher workrate from the midfield to close down opponents quicker.

Common problem highlighted by many on here over the course of the last season. Hopefully we address it.

 

[rio bryan]

He's admitted it was his mistake for the pen but he's saying the defense still needs more protection and higher workrate from the midfield to close down opponents quicker.

Common problem highlighted by many on here over the course of the last season. Hopefully we address it.

I know what he is saying, but if he hadn't left Rooney all alone against Utd, if him or his mate Verts had sorted out who was marking Diof then perhaps he wouldn't be blaming the def mids,like i implied, perhaps he needs to concentrate on his own game rather worrying about the midfield.

 

[idontgetit]

I don't get the attitude argument so much these days, we used to be fucking awful for a long time. Ever since AVB came in though we've been grinding out wins, we've not been blowing teams away. We worked very hard and fought hard under AVB but where we did have a problem was a lack of killer instinct and desire and enjoyment in going out and slaying teams. Under Poch last year again I thought we fought hard and one a lot of late points. I remember us even adding a bit of nastiness to our game when things seriously weren't going our way, just to try make something happen (think Villa away maybe was an example?).

 

[TropicalYid]

I know what he is saying, but if he hadn't left Rooney all alone against Utd, if him or his mate Verts had sorted out who was marking Diof then perhaps he wouldn't be blaming the def mids,like i implied, perhaps he needs to concentrate on his own game rather worrying about the midfield.

Bottom line is that Toby is right. Something is not working with our CMs

 

[Japhet]

I know what he is saying, but if he hadn't left Rooney all alone against Utd, if him or his mate Verts had sorted out who was marking Diof then perhaps he wouldn't be blaming the def mids,like i implied, perhaps he needs to concentrate on his own game rather worrying about the midfield.

difficult when the CBs play left and right and the striker moves all over the place. More to do with lack of communication IMO.

 

[rio bryan]

difficult when the CBs play left and right and the striker moves all over the place. More to do with lack of communication IMO.

My comment re the marking was aimed at the particular moment that the ball was crossed in.

 

[Japhet]

My comment re the marking was aimed at the particular moment that the ball was crossed in.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Bentaleb should have tackled, blocked or at the very least tracked Ireland to stop him getting his cross in. He did none of those things and merely jogged back by which time Ireland was well away. The CBs were within their rights to expect Bentaleb to do a better job and their positioning was compromised as a result.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I don't get the attitude argument so much these days, we used to be fucking awful for a long time. Ever since AVB came in though we've been grinding out wins, we've not been blowing teams away. We worked very hard and fought hard under AVB but where we did have a problem was a lack of killer instinct and desire and enjoyment in going out and slaying teams. Under Poch last year again I thought we fought hard and one a lot of late points. I remember us even adding a bit of nastiness to our game when things seriously weren't going our way, just to try make something happen (think Villa away maybe was an example?).

Complacency still a problem though. We thought the game won at 65 mins and a couple of players eased up. Which is all it takes to let the other team back into the game in the premiership.

 

[yido_number1]

Fact is both the Defence and MF need to improve. Ireland had way too much time for the cross with no pressure and Alderweireld got beat far too easily. The UTD goal was a sloppy pass when we were in possession and theres not much a defence can do about that.

Its early in the season and I'm confident we are working on these things.

 

[rio bryan]

Fact is both the Defence and MF need to improve. Ireland had way too much time for the cross with no pressure and Alderweireld got beat far too easily. The UTD goal was a sloppy pass when we were in possession and theres not much a defence can do about that.

Its early in the season and I'm confident we are working on these things.

Well apart from defend properly and not make school boy errors.

 

[tototoner]

Main thing we lack is quality players, too many squad fillers who we have to play because we have no one else

 

[voxy28]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Bentaleb should have tackled, blocked or at the very least tracked Ireland to stop him getting his cross in. He did none of those things and merely jogged back by which time Ireland was well away. The CBs were within their rights to expect Bentaleb to do a better job and their positioning was compromised as a result.

Many didn't realize that.... When he came on we drop 2 pts....

 

[double0]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Bentaleb should have tackled, blocked or at the very least tracked Ireland to stop him getting his cross in. He did none of those things and merely jogged back by which time Ireland was well away. The CBs were within their rights to expect Bentaleb to do a better job and their positioning was compromised as a result.

This where I completely disagree as CB's they should taking greater responsibility being the last line of defence. knowing and seeing the bigger picture in front of them they should be positioned to mop up mistakes.

Vertonghen for example doesn't like to defend this is unacceptable.

 

[yido_number1]

This where I completely disagree as CB's they should taking greater responsibility being the last line of defence. knowing and seeing the bigger picture in front of them they should be positioned to mop up mistakes.

Vertonghen for example doesn't like to defend this is unacceptable.

If you give quality players loads of time to pass balls into the box you will concede. You can blame the defence for their own portion but you can't allow premier league midfielders to ping dangerous balls into the box because you will concede.

 

[voxy28]

Just look at David Silva vs Eriksen in terms of pressing then u see why we concede goals. The gaps is the midfield is generous and we leave the defending to 2 central defenders. Firstly taking an industrious Mason out and replace him with showman Bentelab requires more bodies in the MF to cut the supplies.... But with Eriksen not pressing that leaves the 2 MF to close passes down....

Even Willian runs back to defend..... Chadli and Eriksen go missing when defending. To me it's a tactical problem. U cannot repel an attack with 4 defenders and 2 CM.

 

[Japhet]

This where I completely disagree as CB's they should taking greater responsibility being the last line of defence. knowing and seeing the bigger picture in front of them they should be positioned to mop up mistakes.

Vertonghen for example doesn't like to defend this is unacceptable.

Half the reason why Alderwiereld was out of position was because he was trying to get across to cover for the tackle Bentaleb didn't make. That isn't being the 'last line of defence', it's trying to cover somebody else's error.

 

[double0]

Just look at David Silva vs Eriksen in terms of pressing then u see why we concede goals. The gaps is the midfield is generous and we leave the defending to 2 central defenders. Firstly taking an industrious Mason out and replace him with showman Bentelab requires more bodies in the MF to cut the supplies.... But with Eriksen not pressing that leaves the 2 MF to close passes down....

Even Willian runs back to defend..... Chadli and Eriksen go missing when defending. To me it's a tactical problem. U cannot repel an attack with 4 defenders and 2 CM.

Even with Silva pressing or William pressing both teams will concede chances. It is impossible at this level of football chances will not be come to the opposition but you'd expect the top teams to have at least one outstanding defender that knows how to defend not a footballer playing CB.

To be frank I think we have more problem at CB who should be Barking orders but aswell maybe our full backs and mid should be more proactive

 

[voxy28]

Even with Silva pressing or William pressing both teams will concede chances. It is impossible at this level of football chances will not be come to the opposition but you'd expect the top teams to have at least one outstanding defender that knows how to defend not a footballer playing CB.

To be frank I think we have more problem at CB who should be Barking orders but aswell maybe our full backs and mid should be more proactive

Let's not kid ourselves that both goals are conceded from key passes from 3/4 of our field. What can the CB shout when there is no one cutting the supplies. It's way beyond their defending range.

While some of u are defending Bentelab, Eriksen, Chadli, I think they had let in those goals with their sloppy defending. It's a top flight and hence you defend as a unit and not let others cover your liability. Poch tactics basically implode in his face when he substituted players that cannot hold the ball and pass the ball out of danger....

 

[Sevens]

Just to add a bit of perspective. Since 2005/06 we've only finished outside of the top six on two occasions. That's almost a decade. So we're not the soft touch the media likes to portray us to be. Indeed when you look at the teams around us, their wealth and/or revenue, we're about where we should be year after year. We perform to par.

It's very difficult to make the next step up. But if we continue to make par then we are doing what is expected.

To the original question, I think successful Managers are ones who play to their players strengths rather than trying to shoehorn players into a system that doesn't suit them.