TottenhamLegend
Well-Known Member
- Jun 13, 2012
- 3,273
- 9,439
Shall we try this against Liverpool?
It worked for United!
It worked for United!
AVB's high line / The Offside Trap
- Thread starter TottenhamLegend
- Start date
michaelden
Knight of the Fat Fanny
- Aug 13, 2004
- 26,474
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what a weird tictac
Wardy
Well-Known Member
- Nov 13, 2008
- 1,015
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Speaking of random tactics... does anyone remember the Reading tactic when they were last in the premiership? On a free kick they would all rush up the pitch as soon as the ball was kicked, let the keeper catch it (hopefully) and then counter attack and would have like 8 men in attack against 2-3 
cjsimba
Well-Known Member
- Dec 5, 2006
- 2,643
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At Spurs, AVB has implemented his favoured high defensive line and high pressing tactic with now seemingly good success. We have a keeper in Lloris who is able to come off his line and sweep, allowing our defence to push up and make our side more compact. This allows players such as Bale to achieve the success he is getting through having options closer to him to pass to and take the defenders' attention (as the brilliant Jonathan Wilson article - posted not so long ago on here - highlighted) whilst also allowing the lone frontman in the 4-2-3-1 not to become so isolated. All this of course requires high pressing up the field to negate the opposition through ball in behind threat that such a high defensive line tactic can bring.
However, we as a team are still one of the best counter-attacking sides in the league, utilizing the quick speed of a number of our players to catch teams on the counter as we have done a number of times this season.
So my question is could somebody please shed some light for me on how we transition between these 2 tactics? Do we transition between them? Can they both be utilized in the same system? As somebody looking to learn more about tactics, but not knowledgeable enough yet, it seems that these 2 tactics are rather opposite to each other; ie. a counter-attacking team tends to sit back, rather than press high up, and allow the other team to attack them before springing the quick counter attack. So how are we currently combining these 2 tactics?
No trick question, just asking for a bit of tactical explanation from those of you more knowledgable than me in this area.
However, we as a team are still one of the best counter-attacking sides in the league, utilizing the quick speed of a number of our players to catch teams on the counter as we have done a number of times this season.
So my question is could somebody please shed some light for me on how we transition between these 2 tactics? Do we transition between them? Can they both be utilized in the same system? As somebody looking to learn more about tactics, but not knowledgeable enough yet, it seems that these 2 tactics are rather opposite to each other; ie. a counter-attacking team tends to sit back, rather than press high up, and allow the other team to attack them before springing the quick counter attack. So how are we currently combining these 2 tactics?
No trick question, just asking for a bit of tactical explanation from those of you more knowledgable than me in this area.
The Spurs Lad
Ye more thou know
- Jun 18, 2012
- 634
- 953
At Spurs, AVB has implemented his favoured high defensive line and high pressing tactic with now seemingly good success. We have a keeper in Lloris who is able to come off his line and sweep, allowing our defence to push up and make our side more compact. This allows players such as Bale to achieve the success he is getting through having options closer to him to pass to and take the defenders' attention (as the brilliant Jonathan Wilson article - posted not so long ago on here - highlighted) whilst also allowing the lone frontman in the 4-2-3-1 not to become so isolated. All this of course requires high pressing up the field to negate the opposition through ball in behind threat that such a high defensive line tactic can bring.
However, we as a team are still one of the best counter-attacking sides in the league, utilizing the quick speed of a number of our players to catch teams on the counter as we have done a number of times this season.
So my question is could somebody please shed some light for me on how we transition between these 2 tactics? Do we transition between them? Can they both be utilized in the same system? As somebody looking to learn more about tactics, but not knowledgeable enough yet, it seems that these 2 tactics are rather opposite to each other; ie. a counter-attacking team tends to sit back, rather than press high up, and allow the other team to attack them before springing the quick counter attack. So how are we currently combining these 2 tactics?
No trick question, just asking for a bit of tactical explanation from those of you more knowledgable than me in this area.
The game never sticks in one situation, we counter when we don't have the ball if we get pushed back. Usually away from home we won't have as much possession so get pushed back, we still try to push as high as we can but it's not always possible.
The best way to play the high pressing system is obviously to keep possession, if we lose possession we can still press high but inevitably they do push us back eventually if we do not win the ball off them high up the pitch. When we win it deeper in our own half, we can spring them and break.
We would be silly to simply apply one single tactic, the game is fluid and so are our systems.
Jamturk
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2008
- 9,934
- 23,056
Well for me, the high line and pressing is used to win the ball back further up the pitch. Meaning when we win the ball from the opposition they are in their transition into attack their defensive shape will be off balance therefore leaving more openings for a counter. Doing this when sitting deep lends itself to a more long direct game with balls over the top whereas being further up the pitch the through balls can be more accurate and precise. Also a high line means our team conservere more energy by having to cover less of the pitch in our transitions.
When we have the ball we tend to keep possesion trying to draw the oppo onto us, however we tend to struggle against teams that just sit back (Lyon) with great discipline.
i don't think there are 2 tactics at work here,
When we have the ball we tend to keep possesion trying to draw the oppo onto us, however we tend to struggle against teams that just sit back (Lyon) with great discipline.
i don't think there are 2 tactics at work here,
The Spurs Lad
Ye more thou know
- Jun 18, 2012
- 634
- 953
There aren't two because "counter attack" and "high pressing" aren't tactics. Tactics is the general word for styles of play and gameplans. We counter through our reaction to winning the ball deeper. I personally wouldn't class winning the ball high up and playing it forward again as 'counter attacking', to me that is simply just part of the high pressure part. Counter attacking to me is and always has been winning it in your own half and springing on them when they have pushed up themselves. It does come down to your personal definition of the terms though.
padgateyids
Active Member
- Nov 27, 2006
- 446
- 122
I missed one like that last night, thats made me feel better.
RichieS
Well-Known Member
- Dec 23, 2004
- 11,916
- 16,436
I'm sure you would have said the same about Walcott.
cjsimba
Well-Known Member
- Dec 5, 2006
- 2,643
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I agree. My first thought was like you say, we counter when the high pressing 'fails' and they are pushing us further back. And as you say our systems are fluid and there is no one 'tactic' we set out to do. It changes depending on the situation we find ourselves in. I think we have always been a great counter attacking team as we have always had an abundance of pace. What AVB has done this year I think is give us that extra system, that Plan B (well not Plan B really, more like Plan A II). We are now great at counter attacking teams but have also become good at pressing high and stifling teams defensively before building our compact attacks.
Suarez is way ahead of Walnut in terms of footballing intelligence and finishing ability.
idontgetit
Well-Known Member
- Aug 21, 2011
- 14,608
- 31,270
At Spurs, AVB has implemented his favoured high defensive line and high pressing tactic with now seemingly good success. We have a keeper in Lloris who is able to come off his line and sweep, allowing our defence to push up and make our side more compact. This allows players such as Bale to achieve the success he is getting through having options closer to him to pass to and take the defenders' attention (as the brilliant Jonathan Wilson article - posted not so long ago on here - highlighted) whilst also allowing the lone frontman in the 4-2-3-1 not to become so isolated. All this of course requires high pressing up the field to negate the opposition through ball in behind threat that such a high defensive line tactic can bring.
However, we as a team are still one of the best counter-attacking sides in the league, utilizing the quick speed of a number of our players to catch teams on the counter as we have done a number of times this season.
So my question is could somebody please shed some light for me on how we transition between these 2 tactics? Do we transition between them? Can they both be utilized in the same system? As somebody looking to learn more about tactics, but not knowledgeable enough yet, it seems that these 2 tactics are rather opposite to each other; ie. a counter-attacking team tends to sit back, rather than press high up, and allow the other team to attack them before springing the quick counter attack. So how are we currently combining these 2 tactics?
No trick question, just asking for a bit of tactical explanation from those of you more knowledgable than me in this area.
It doesn't matter so much whether you play high or deep but more that you play as a unit. When we played poorly at the start of the season you could see that the forwards were trying to drive us on and stayed isolated high up the pitch, the defenders were scared and stayed deep and the midfielders didn't have a fucking clue. It left us really open and easy to pass around. Thankfully at the moment we seem to be moving as a real unit. I think ideally AVB would want us to play high all the time but he and the team know that Parker/Dembele won't always dominate the midfield at the moment and that it's ok to drop a little deeper at times. It's not exactly like we're sitting that far back either, the pressing in our half was tenacious all game against Arsenal and when we saw weakeness we pressed higher as a unit. The balance against Arsenal was perfect, real hunting in packs mentality with everyone covering each other. When we drop off it's still defending with intent, like a trap waiting to spring. Everyone's ready to drive forward as soon as we get a chance. It's a mentality and understanding within the team. At the start of the season when we went deep it felt more like we were trying to hang on.
cjsimba
Well-Known Member
- Dec 5, 2006
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Definitely. And also it is impossible to play high and press all the time because 1) it knackers you out and 2) you have to press only at opportune times when the whole team can press and really worry the opposition player (rather than just one of your strikers pressing and running around like a headless chicken while his team mates arent in a position to press similarly). So yer, lots of times the team has to drop off and i agree i think we do this well now AS A TEAM (like you say).
Can you answer me one question though. I agree that when we drop off we still do so with the intent to quickly break on the counter, but given that our counter attacking football is so strong, do you think that AVB is ever tempted to set up from the start to play on the counter - ie. drop deeper on purpose and not play high pressing football in order to draw the other team out so that we can punish them on the counter with our quicker players? I understand that during a high pressing system there are times when you have to drop deep and from there counter attacks can be made, but if that counter attack is such a powerful weapon, is it ever a temptation simply to look to use it from the start of the game as your primary approach?
