Carlton Palmer on racism

[Dharmabum]

'Grow up and accept it!' Palmer believes racism victims should concentrate on playing instead of reacting to the abuse
By John Drayton

PUBLISHED: 11:15 GMT, 21 February 2014 | UPDATED: 18:07 GMT, 21 February 2014

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Carlton Palmer believes that footballers who suffer racial abuse whilst playing should just "grow up and accept" the barbs.

The former England international said he was the subject of discriminatory taunts in his professional career, but that he just "laughed it off."

The ex-Sheffield Wednesday defender believes opponents use it merely as a technique to distract an opposing player from playing their normal game.



Palmer told talkSPORT: 'If you want to intimidate me about my colour, which has happened loads of times, then I’ll just laugh it off. If I’m stupid enough to get involved with you because you’re calling me a black something or other, I’ll just laugh it off.

'I played at West Ham and they were chucking bananas on the pitch, I ate the bananas. I love them! It doesn’t worry me. I’m not interested in that. I’m just interested in winning the football game.

'If someone is on a football pitch or in a boxing ring or whatever, you’re in there to win. It is part and parcel of it [to try to put someone off]. And you have to grow up and accept that. And anybody who thinks different is lying. It’s been going on for years.



'When you say it’s not right, if I can intimidate you by saying something that puts you off your game, why isn’t that right?

'That’s not racism. Not for me, it’s not. It depends on the context. Whenever it’s happened to me, and I’m not mentioning any names, I never thought that person was a racist. If they can get me sent off because I react, that’s different. On the pitch, the laws are different.

'Some people for me, and some players, some black players, have used this as an excuse. And then the ones that have actually been racially abused, those incidents are not being dealt with.'




On FIFA president Sepp Blatter’s claim that on-pitch racism can be settled with a handshake at the end of the game, Palmer added:

'I agree with Blatter 100%. At the end of the day it’s an easy excuse for colour. Just be the best you can be. And that’s what I’ve done – 750 league games, 18 England caps. You can call me black – it doesn’t matter to me.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ing-instead-reacting-abuse.html#ixzz2u5fauX3E
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[Nine while nine]

Just be the best you can be. And that’s what I’ve done

To be fair, Carlton, it still wasn't that great though, was it?

 

[Syn_13]

Yes, because we're all exactly the same emotionally, and if one black man can get over being abused then surely all must be able to. He's just basically making it okay for people to act like twats, because it's just 'banter'.

He's not the black man David Cameron once met, is he?

 

[Dinghy]

Yes, because we're all exactly the same emotionally, and if one black man can get over being abused then surely all must be able to. He's just basically making it okay for people to act like twats, because it's just 'banter'.

He's not the black man David Cameron once met, is he?

But he's not saying it's banter. Is he not really saying that if you let them get under your skin they've won?

 

[Geyzer Soze]

In a way I kind of agree with him tbh

 

[Syn_13]

But he's not saying it's banter. Is he not really saying that if you let them get under your skin they've won?

He is, but ultimately if you ignore them you're not tackling the problem. It enables them and they've still won.

Fair enough if he can brush it off and keep his head held high, but many others will simply not be able to do so. We should be challenging and re-educating the morons of this world, not ignoring them.

 

[al_pacino]

I suppose an easy example of his point is the Suarez/Evra situation. Is Suarez racist? I've no idea but I am pretty sure that Suarez abused Evra to get a reaction and possibly a little slap so he could role about on the floor and get Evra sent off. That's poor very behaviour and you deserve any ban you get but probably doesn't mean you're a racist.

John Terry doesn't come into this as he's a proven , 100% certified ****.

 

[RButch]

I think the world is fundamentally flawed when it comes to racism, people are too afraid of being called a racist if they refuse to something for an individual who has a different heritage to yours. Now I do not condone any form of abuse, whether it be racist, prejudice, discriminatory or sexist but sometimes people who lack any common sense rush to conclusions without thinking about the context of the situation.

In the past I have been accused (and almost arrested) for being supposedly racist. I said to my mates in the queue to a club, 'check out the lass over there.' there was multitudes of girls over then so they were like 'Which one' I replied 'the Indian girl.' After people in the queue called me an 'f***ing racist' bouncers swarmed me and attempted to pull me over the railings (baring in mind I am bigger than every bouncer I have ever met so it was a a long struggle for them.) and called the bypassing police, so I had to explain what happened and eventually went over to the lady and asked what here nationality is, to which she responded 'Indian' and I rested my case saying 'how can stating somebody's nationality be racist, if I called you British would you be offended.'

In many situations in the modern world, you have to be so careful what you say or do, even it the workforce (I was completing a summer internship for Uni) when my then boss was forced by the hierarchy to diversify the ethnicity of the workplace, which gave an unfair advantage for people who has a foreign background, which ironically is racist to white individuals. Linking in a book which states that if you have a workforce which the majority is white and you are looking to hire one individual, where there are two perfect candidates of equal ability, academic results and talent etc, but one is white and one is black then you should hire the black person over the white person as if you didn't it would look suspicious to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission who can take you to court for not giving equal opportunity.

Yet this doesn't take into account the personality of the person, where the black person might be arrogant, self-worshiped and can potentially cause problems in the workplace, yet the white may be a charming, kind and considerate person.

There are so many situations where there is a fine line between being racist or not.

 

[Tott66]

A very good friend of once professed he would rather his daughter marry a fellow Jew.
Does that make him racist the line know days is very thin.
I myself once lost some friends why cos I was dating a girl from a different race.
The subject is vast and hazardous.
Carlton Palmer clearly has a very open mind and very lenient on such abuse or is he from a bygone area where situations were not reported and more widely accepted

 

[beats1]

A very good friend of once professed he would rather his daughter marry a fellow Jew.
Does that make him racist the line know days is very thin.
I myself once lost some friends why cos I was dating a girl from a different race.
The subject is vast and hazardous.
Carlton Palmer clearly has a very open mind and very lenient on such abuse or is he from a bygone area where situations were not reported and more widely accepted

Not really, if he wouldn't allow it and etc. then you can suggest it is racist but even then it still a bit murky

 

[beats1]

I think the world is fundamentally flawed when it comes to racism, people are too afraid of being called a racist if they refuse to something for an individual who has a different heritage to yours. Now I do not condone any form of abuse, whether it be racist, prejudice, discriminatory or sexist but sometimes people who lack any common sense rush to conclusions without thinking about the context of the situation.

In the past I have been accused (and almost arrested) for being supposedly racist. I said to my mates in the queue to a club, 'check out the lass over there.' there was multitudes of girls over then so they were like 'Which one' I replied 'the Indian girl.' After people in the queue called me an 'f***ing racist' bouncers swarmed me and attempted to pull me over the railings (baring in mind I am bigger than every bouncer I have ever met so it was a a long struggle for them.) and called the bypassing police, so I had to explain what happened and eventually went over to the lady and asked what here nationality is, to which she responded 'Indian' and I rested my case saying 'how can stating somebody's nationality be racist, if I called you British would you be offended.'

In many situations in the modern world, you have to be so careful what you say or do, even it the workforce (I was completing a summer internship for Uni) when my then boss was forced by the hierarchy to diversify the ethnicity of the workplace, which gave an unfair advantage for people who has a foreign background, which ironically is racist to white individuals. Linking in a book which states that if you have a workforce which the majority is white and you are looking to hire one individual, where there are two perfect candidates of equal ability, academic results and talent etc, but one is white and one is black then you should hire the black person over the white person as if you didn't it would look suspicious to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission who can take you to court for not giving equal opportunity.

Yet this doesn't take into account the personality of the person, where the black person might be arrogant, self-worshiped and can potentially cause problems in the workplace, yet the white may be a charming, kind and considerate person.

There are so many situations where there is a fine line between being racist or not.

Anyone thinking that's racist really doesn't get it. Like americans with the use of black, some americans think that is racist and would call my ex, african american! She was half black and neither african or american.

We had a lot of comments that could be judged as racist but the only ones that I deemed racist were the ones that made you feel alone and isolated.

As for the equal opportunities stuff, I don't know much about it but imo it should only be taken in to court if it can get proved that the colour of their skin did play a factor. Otherwise it is causing more harm than good.

However whatever happens you have to give a reason for the hiring, as picking someone because of the equal opportunity commission, could lead to a lawsuit itself(though unlikely that anyone has tried it yet).

 

[CornerPinDreamer]

if racist banter is acceptable then kicking racists in the nutsack should also be acceptable

 

[beats1]

if racist banter is acceptable then kicking racists in the nutsack should also be acceptable

Still makes me laugh

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Was listening to this when he called in Talksport - i'll be honest, i thought he had been drinking when he first went on there, and it didn't help that the host was some proper smug twat who thought he had been tasked by the Lord to be the horn that summons everyone to stamp out racism in his radio slot.

Unfortunately, as i listened on, i had to find myself agreeing with Carlton, and not just so i could disagree with the host. The host said that entire teams refusing to play would make such a huge statement and FIFA would have to take notice - well, hasn't the protest vote been tried before? How does a bunch of guys refusing to play change the view some of those on the terraces who have a hatred for another race?

Football isn't about morals or anything like that, it's about playing a game in style and winning. If a player is being barracked by a whole section of support then yes, that's a team concern, it's a huge section of the stands and will clearly be a disruption and a bad advertisement for that clubs fans, but one player getting a bit of abuse from a handful of fans - the easiest way to shut them up is to try that hard/be that good for the team that they either a) if the guy is on their team, start respecting you for being that good/trying that hard, or b) if he's on the oppo team, start hating him for being that good/trying that hard. The race thing suspiciously goes out of the window when talent is bought into the equation - just take a look at clubs with hardcore right wing fans, then have a look at the non-white (cos lets face it, it's 99% a white problem from our perspective and in the throws of this argument - it's not like you see hordes of Nigerian fans barracking a white guy often) players who were that talented that have earned the respect of the fans regardless of their skin colour. To just walk off the pitch, or refuse to play, simply gives the bigots more ammo to fling and puts the abused player on a pedestal as a target.

I grew up through the 80's, i saw the black players dodging bananas flung from the crowd but there was a few players of non-white parentage who had that much skill, were that dangerous in the tackle or were that devoted to a clubs fight that their skin colour became a non-point to even the racist fans and they were treated with respect. Happened in football, happened in cricket, happened in athletics - boxing is perhaps the one sport where black competitors have flourished from early on, but that i suppose is for two reasons; 1) Boxing, or fighting with rules, is a base "sport", it has been used to settle disputes since the dawn of time regardless of skin colour and 2) It's far less likely that a footballer being abused will have the power and skills to punch your neck out from under your chin.

Play on, soldier on, march on, do whatever it takes to get on with YOUR lives. It might sting a bit now and then but that's the point, that's exactly what the person shouting that abuse wants - to upset you and get a rise out of you, so don't. It defuses everything about it. Refusing to play on and making yourself a martyr to the whole thing just puts more spotlights on you and draws more bigots, who will use that attitude your showing as just another stick to beat you with.

 

[Syn_13]

Sorry, but I still stand my view. @OmarsComing - you rated my post negatively and you clearly support the views of Carlton Palmer with your winner ratings on the other posts. I'd like to understand why. I'm not bothered about the neg rep, just confused as to how my point merited a rating that implies it was stupid.

Palmer is wrong. They've won whether you let them get under your skin or not. There are many ways to taunt a player on the football field, physically and verbally, but resorting to racism is completely unnecessary. Suarez, for example, could've tried winding Evra up in a multitude of ways but it says a lot about his character that the first thing he did was reach for a race motivated insult. It's worse that his club tried to actually stand by him, and look what happened, a legion of Liverpool fans monkey chanting and booing Evra every time he touched the ball in future games. Allowing players to do that in the name of 'banter' doesn't tackle the issue whatsoever, it enables them.

You're putting the focus on the victim of the abuse instead of on the aggressor by telling them that they should just 'deal with it'. They shouldn't have to be put in that situation in the first place, where they have to 'deal with it' and 'not let them get under their skin'. It sends out the wrong messages to people if you're saying, as Blatter has, that you should shake hands and forget about it after the game. Palmer claims that "on the pitch, the laws are different", but how the fuck are they? Football is still a workplace and we shouldn't tolerate racism, even when it's used merely as 'banter'.

As I said earlier, we all have different ways to deal with these problems. Fair enough if that works for Palmer, but IMO, that's not dealing with the situation at all. You're just giving an excuse to the aggressors and giving them the opportunity to carry on with this ridiculous behaviour.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Not really, if he wouldn't allow it and etc. then you can suggest it is racist but even then it still a bit murky

So if I were to tell you that I would rather my daughter married a white guy?

 

[Geyzer Soze]

if racist banter is acceptable then kicking racists in the nutsack should also be acceptable

Well, there is verbal and there is physical abuse. They stand differently in the eyes of the law I am afraid.

 

[punky]

Growing up, I felt this.

If you were called a fat bastard, no one cared. If you were called a black bastard, everyone gasped and the offenders suspended and probably with the police involved. I was bullied a lot and because the abuse I received was mainly because I was fat, no one gave a shit. If I was black it would have been a different story.

Also I don't like how "racially-aggrievated" ha led to this 2-tier justice system. You punch someone because you don't like them If they reason is anything other than race you'll get a sentence of X, but if is because of race then you get X+Y. You punched them with the same force. The impact is the same. Why should one person get a strong sentence than another?

 

[Rocksuperstar]

I think it's better to try and be pro-active about things generally, so those saying react and refuse to play/walk off etc, can you explain to me how you see events unfolding after that?

As far as i can work out, players leave the field, or stand in the centre circle, and refuse to play on so the ref abandons the game. This is big news and FIFA/UEFA/theFA are called on to... do what?

Punish the club with fines and sanctions? Yeah, that's how you teach racists how to not be arseholes! You don't punish them at all, in fact you don't even address them, you take away their favorite toy? The club is forced to play games behind closed doors, punishing the normal fans too and taking money away from the coffers, as soon as the doors open up, back come the racist fans.

I must admit, i can't see how any of the options they would have actually improve the situation. I can't see how anything that the footballing authorities can do. Racism and abuse is an issue of law, it's up to the Police and the clubs themselves to work together, use CCTV and identify the individuals/groups and act on them not as a bunch of football fans in a stadium, but as a bunch of racists in society.

We can't expect the FA or FIFA to change the human race, but we can make our own decisions about what defines us - i'd much rather be defined as someone who was that damn good my skin colour became a non-issue for even those who hate my race, than someone who was defeated by a few haters and wasn't able to go about my job.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Also I don't like how "racially-aggrievated" ha led to this 2-tier justice system. You punch someone because you don't like them If they reason is anything other than race you'll get a sentence of X, but if is because of race then you get X+Y. You punched them with the same force. The impact is the same. Why should one person get a strong sentence than another?

I've met you, you didn't look fat, you looked more like a bit of a powerhouse to be fair - i assumed you played rugby.

And with regards to the punch, it's the catalyst that drove the punch that matters, it demonstrates an intolerance for other races if even 1% of the punch was generated because the recipient was of a different creed or colour. If you punch them for simply being a dick then that's just human nature, but if you were already judging them before the altercation because of their skin colour and wouldn't have been so aggressive toward a white-English person in the same situation then that's intolerance/hate as well as violence, so the crime hikes up a rung.