Celtic fans walkout protest against poppy rememberance strip, thoughts?

[Leo]

My house mate and massive celtic fan was pissed off some of his comerades did this. I don't know that much about irish history and was just wondering what people thought about this? Do you think they were right as the british fought against Ireland? Or should they remember that they are from Glasgow and a lot people from scotland gave their life?

This is what the celts against imperialism have to say:

PROTEST AGAINST BRITISH IMPERIALISM

WALK OUT OF STADIUM ON 10 MINUTE MARK

CONTINUE PROTEST - MEET AT WALFRID STATUE

The SPL has decided that all Scottish Premier League clubs should support the Poppy Scotland Appeal. Celtic PLC without proper reference even to its own board, supporters groups or employees has decided to comply with the SPL’s recommendation and has produced a special strip embroidered with a red poppy to be worn by all players in today’s match against Motherwell.

For Celtic to support such an enterprise is extremely insensitive to the huge fan base that the club has in Ireland. In recent times many of our supporters in Ireland have suffered directly at the hands of the British Army, an army whose soldiers we are expected to applaud and commemorate today.

This is an insult to our supporters in Ireland and to all of the many thousands with Irish heritage and ancestry that follow the club. How can the Celtic PLC board expect our supporters to lend support to an army that has plundered and murdered many of our own people?

blinking Sunday, The Ballymurphy Massacre, the murders of Aiden McAnespie and Peter McBride – these are just a few of the atrocities committed by British troops in Ireland.

This is not about the fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers who were conscripted to fight in two world wars. This poppy day is about the British Army in the here and now - and is being given extra impetus this year because of the falling recruitment figures as a result of its involvement in unpopular conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Our protest is not aimed at individuals who wear the poppy, it is against the idea that Celtic as an institution should be backing British imperialism in any way shape or form.

We believe that the poppy appeal has long passed its original aims to commemorate the fallen conscripts of two world wars and has now become a focal point to rally support for the modern professional volunteer soldiers of the British Army and its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

An honourable compromise could have been reached if the club had opted to wear the White Poppy which symbolises peace and opposition to all wars, but it seems that other political agendas are now at work in our club.

The Celtic Chairman John Reid is fond of telling us to “leave your politics at the door” yet this former minister in the British war cabinet continues to bring his own British imperialist and unionist politics into our club. Dr Reid should follow his own advice.

It is a disgraceful turnaround in the history of our club that we should even consider endorsing a celebration of the British Army. Celtic was founded by Irishmen who opposed British military involvement in Ireland and whose lives were devoted to this club, the Irish community in Scotland and the struggle to free their homeland from British rule.

It’s time to reclaim our club from those who would prefer to wrap it in the Union Jack rather than the Irish Tricolour.

Printed & Published by Celts Against Imperialism
Supported by Cairde Na hEireann, TAL Fanzine, Green Brigade

I can sort of see what their saying, but also they seem to ignore they play in scotland?

 

[niall]

Sounds to me like the type of bile spewn out in Republican rags such as An Phoblacht. I doubt that any right-minded Celtic fan will support this protest.

 

[KentuckyYid]

It's not a celebration of the British army, it's remembrance of those who died including members of Royal Irish regiments!

BTW Celtic is a British team and if the fans don't like it then support a different team in Ireland.

Also it's not as if the Irish didn't do anything themselves. I believe it was the Irish way back in history who started the history of violence when they supported Scottish incursions into the north of England. Some years later they took sides in our civil war which had nothing to do with them either. Those two acts are what made England look closer at our neighbours to the west as enemies as prior to that we hadn't done anything to them. They set the tone for the future so fuck them (only those who hate Britain).

 

[Leo]

Exactly its such a lack of respect to the dead, surely (WW2 speaking) Hitler would have fucked over Ireland eventually.

 

[mackay59]

My house mate and massive celtic fan was pissed off some of his comerades did this. I don't know that much about irish history and was just wondering what people thought about this? Do you think they were right as the british fought against Ireland? Or should they remember that they are from Glasgow and a lot people from scotland gave their life?

This is what the celts against imperialism have to say:

PROTEST AGAINST BRITISH IMPERIALISM

WALK OUT OF STADIUM ON 10 MINUTE MARK

CONTINUE PROTEST - MEET AT WALFRID STATUE

The SPL has decided that all Scottish Premier League clubs should support the Poppy Scotland Appeal. Celtic PLC without proper reference even to its own board, supporters groups or employees has decided to comply with the SPL’s recommendation and has produced a special strip embroidered with a red poppy to be worn by all players in today’s match against Motherwell.

For Celtic to support such an enterprise is extremely insensitive to the huge fan base that the club has in Ireland. In recent times many of our supporters in Ireland have suffered directly at the hands of the British Army, an army whose soldiers we are expected to applaud and commemorate today.

This is an insult to our supporters in Ireland and to all of the many thousands with Irish heritage and ancestry that follow the club. How can the Celtic PLC board expect our supporters to lend support to an army that has plundered and murdered many of our own people?

blinking Sunday, The Ballymurphy Massacre, the murders of Aiden McAnespie and Peter McBride – these are just a few of the atrocities committed by British troops in Ireland.

This is not about the fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers who were conscripted to fight in two world wars. This poppy day is about the British Army in the here and now - and is being given extra impetus this year because of the falling recruitment figures as a result of its involvement in unpopular conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Our protest is not aimed at individuals who wear the poppy, it is against the idea that Celtic as an institution should be backing British imperialism in any way shape or form.

We believe that the poppy appeal has long passed its original aims to commemorate the fallen conscripts of two world wars and has now become a focal point to rally support for the modern professional volunteer soldiers of the British Army and its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

An honourable compromise could have been reached if the club had opted to wear the White Poppy which symbolises peace and opposition to all wars, but it seems that other political agendas are now at work in our club.

The Celtic Chairman John Reid is fond of telling us to “leave your politics at the door” yet this former minister in the British war cabinet continues to bring his own British imperialist and unionist politics into our club. Dr Reid should follow his own advice.

It is a disgraceful turnaround in the history of our club that we should even consider endorsing a celebration of the British Army. Celtic was founded by Irishmen who opposed British military involvement in Ireland and whose lives were devoted to this club, the Irish community in Scotland and the struggle to free their homeland from British rule.

It’s time to reclaim our club from those who would prefer to wrap it in the Union Jack rather than the Irish Tricolour.

Printed & Published by Celts Against Imperialism
Supported by Cairde Na hEireann, TAL Fanzine, Green Brigade

I can sort of see what their saying, but also they seem to ignore they play in scotland?

Seems like "the Famine Song "sung by Rangers fans has some merit.

The famine is over, go back to Ireland if you feel that way.

 

[mackay59]

Exactly its such a lack of respect to the dead, surely (WW2 speaking) Hitler would have fucked over Ireland eventually.

Dead on !!

 

[Bonjour]

The ignorance is astounding.

 

[niall]

Seems like "the Famine Song "sung by Rangers fans has some merit.

The famine is over, go back to Ireland if you feel that way.

No, The Famine Song has no merit whatsoever; it's bigotry of the highest order.

 

[Leo]

No, The Famine Song has no merit whatsoever; it's bigotry of the highest order.

I agree. 2 wrongs etc.

 

[SpurSince57]

It's not a celebration of the British army, it's remembrance of those who died including members of Royal Irish regiments!

BTW Celtic is a British team and if the fans don't like it then support a different team in Ireland.

Also it's not as if the Irish didn't do anything themselves. I believe it was the Irish way back in history who started the history of violence when they supported Scottish incursions into the north of England. Some years later they took sides in our civil war which had nothing to do with them either. Those two acts are what made England look closer at our neighbours to the west as enemies as prior to that we hadn't done anything to them. They set the tone for the future so fuck them (only those who hate Britain).

Because Charles I and his advisors invited them to.

 

[LSUY]

Is anyone else getting sick and tired of all this poor little innocent Irish getting trampled upon by the baby eating British army view? Yes we did bad things over there but the Irish weren't totally innocent.

Obviously the Celts Against Imperialism have forgotten that a lot of Irishmen from the North and the Republic served within the British army in both world wars.

 

[KentuckyYid]

Because Charles I and his advisors invited them to.

Still SS57, the point is they set the tone for the histories of our two countries, just like France did in 1066. Admitted the French were actually Norsemen but they invaded England as French with official French backing.

I won't have all this Britain this and Britain that without replying. I'm sick of hearing what bastards we are. If we were bastards it's because they made us bastards so screw the lot of them.

 

[mackay59]

No, The Famine Song has no merit whatsoever; it's bigotry of the highest order.

then you must agree that a section (and seemingly a significant section) of the Celtic support is bigoted - pretty simple isn't it - they shut up or go and live in Eire where their sympathies are reciprocated - nothing bigotist about that just common sense

 

[SpurSince57]

Still SS57, the point is they set the tone for the histories of our two countries, just like France did in 1066. Admitted the French were actually Norsemen but they invaded England as French with official French backing.

I won't have all this Britain this and Britain that without replying. I'm sick of hearing what bastards we are. If we were bastards it's because they made us bastards so screw the lot of them.

Oh, I quite agree that the clowns behind this protest are a bunch of tossers. And as Teemu says, many thousands of Irishmen, Catholic and Protestant, served with the British army in both world wars. Not to mention all through the 18th and 19th centuries, in highly disproportionate numbers.

 

[mackay59]

not forgetting German U boats refueled in Irish ports in WW 2

 

[TheChosenOne]

Neutrality:
Ireland was officially neutral during the Second World War (see Irish neutrality during World War II) . So much so that it was not even called "the war" in Irish discourse, but "The Emergency". Although Dublin escaped the mass bombing of the war due to Ireland's neutrality, the German air-force bombed Dublin on May 31, 1941, and hit the North Wall – a working-class district in the north inner city – killing 34 Irish civilians and wounding another 90.[4] The bombing was declared accidental, although many suspected that the bombing was deliberate revenge for de Valera's decision to send fire engines to aid the people of Belfast following major bombing in that city. One faction of the IRA hoped to take advantage of the war by getting German help and invading Northern Ireland. In December 1939 they successfully stole almost all the Irish Army's reserve ammunition in a raid on the Magazine Fort in Dublin's Phoenix Park. In retaliation, De Valera interned the IRA's members and executed several of them. The war years also saw rationing imposed on Dublin and the temporary enlargement of the small Jewish community by Jews who fled there from Nazi persecution.
Other bombings:
26 August 1940, German bombs were dropped on County Wexford, the bombs hitting Duncormick and Ambrosetown did no discernible damage. However, a bomb hit a restaurant in Campile killing 3 persons. In 1943, the German government paid £9000 in compensation.
20 December 1940, German bombs hit Carrickmacross, County Monaghan, and Dun Laoghaire and the Sandycove railway station, both near Dublin. There were no fatalities, but 3 persons were injured.
1 January 1941, German bombs hit Duleek and Julianstown (both County Meath), without casualties.
2 January 1941, German bombs hit Terenure in Dublin, destroying several houses and injuring 7 persons, and Ballymurn (County Wexford) without casualties. Dublin itself (Fortfield Road) was hit, without damage or casualties, and the nearby and Curragh Racecourse was hit with incendiary devices, and other bombs hit County Wicklow. German bombs also destroyed a house in Knockroe (County Carlow), killing 3 persons.
3 January 1941, Dublin was again hit by German bombers, this time injuring 20 persons.
2 June 1941, Arklow was bombed by the luftwaffe.
4 July 1941, George’s Quay, Dundalk was bombed by the luftwaffe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dublin_in_World_War_II

As a young child in Ireland my mother saw a few Germans during WW2 - Dead ones were quite regularily washed up on the beaches.

Viscount Cranborne, the British Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, wrote a letter to the British War Cabinet regarding Irish-British collaboration during 1939-1945

“ They agreed to our use of Lough Foyle for naval and air purposes. The ownership of the Lough is disputed, but the Southern Irish authorities are tacitly not pressing their claim in present conditions and are also ignoring any flying by our aircraft over the Donegal shore of the Lough, which is necessary in certain wind conditions to enable flying boats to take off the Lough.
They have agreed to use by our aircraft based on Lough Erne of a corridor over Southern Irish territory and territorial waters for the purpose of flying out to the Atlantic.
They have arranged for the immediate transmission to the United Kingdom Representative’s Office in Dublin of reports of submarine activity received from their coast watching service.
They arranged for the broadening of reports by their Air observation Corps of aircraft sighted over or approaching Southern Irish territory. (This does not include our aircraft using the corridor referred to in (b) above.)
They arranged for the extinction of trade and business lighting in coastal towns where such lighting was alleged to afford a useful landmark for German aircraft.
They have continued to supply us with meteorological reports.
They have agreed to the use by our ships and aircraft of two wireless direction-finding stations at Malin Head.
They have supplied particulars of German crashed aircraft and personnel crashed or washed ashore or arrested on land.
They arranged for staff talks on the question of co-operation against a possible German invasion of Southern Ireland, and close contact has since been maintained between the respective military authorities.
They continue to intern all German fighting personnel reaching Southern Ireland. On the other hand, though after protracted negotiations, Allied service personnel are now allowed to depart freely and full assistance is given in recovering damaged aircraft.
Recently, in connection with the establishment of prisoner of war camps in Northern Ireland, they have agreed to return or at least intern any German prisoners who may escape from Northern Ireland across the border to Southern Ireland.
They have throughout offered no objection to the departure from Southern Ireland of persons wishing to serve in the United Kingdom Forces nor to the journey on leave of such persons to and from Southern Ireland (in plain clothes).
They have continued to exchange information with our security authorities regarding all aliens (including Germans) in Southern Ireland.
They have (within the last few days) agreed to our establishing a Radar station in Southern Ireland for use against the latest form of submarine activity.

 

[mkkid]

What the green brigade has a problem with is British imperalism,after the war.
I know 2 Celtic fans ,who walked out on Saturday and they have told me,they wont have a minute silence for or wear a poppy for what our troops in in N Ireland.
As much as i dont agree with them,its there right protest.
The info on the green brigade website.

 

[LSUY]

What the green brigade has a problem with is British imperalism,after the war.
I know 2 Celtic fans ,who walked out on Saturday and they have told me,they wont have a minute silence for or wear a poppy for what our troops in in N Ireland.
As much as i dont agree with them,its there right protest.
The info on the green brigade website.

Thankfully most of the Celtic fans have common sense and didn't do what the two fans you know and what the rest of the minority did. Thankfully they realised that the vast majority of British troops that have died have never been anywhere near Ireland. I'm glad that the ones that walked out got booed by other Celtic fans.

As one fan pointed out, seven Celtic players died fighting for Britain in the First World War so to protest against the minute's silence would be disrespectful to them.

The ones that moan about the atrocities committed by British troops tend to be the ones that sing Pro-IRA songs. Talk about double standards.

 

[mkkid]

In a way i disagree with you republicanism and Ireland is an essential part of Celtic DNA and they sell there brand on it and Rangers are just as bad.
When i go to Ibrox the union jack is everywhere and Celtic park,seems to be getting worse with every visit,It was like an Ireland theme park.
Both clubs must be forced to remember that they are Scottish and Not Irish.
What needs to happen is the SPL need to ban all flags and songs that both clubs claim that are political.

 

[TheChosenOne]

It is refershing to see some nice sensible posts on this thread, I woke up this morning expecting some extremist and bigoted replies.

Here's hoping !