Challenging the best - the last obstacle

[WhiteHart4Ever]

I think we'll all agree we've developed tremendously with Harry, and we're currently in with an outside chance both to go very far in the CL and be in contention for the EPL title. This calendar year we've beaten Chelsea at home, Arsenal home and away, Liverpool at home (as usual) and Inter at home, and have a number of strong away wins at hard-working mid-table teams like Stoke and Man City :razz:. However, as we can no longer be seen to struggle with the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal, the main obstacle to challenge for the title is to see off the Wigans, Wolverhamptons and West Hams of this world (yes, lousy teams starting with a W). We just don't seem to be able to break down hard-working wrong-end-of-the-table kind of teams that park the bus in their half and leave one guy upfront to counter in the one goal they need. Here's my view on how to change all that:

In general, we seem to line up in a similar way no matter the opponent: classic 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. When we attack, it normally looks like this:

Dawson King

Hutton Huddlestone Modric BAE

Lennon VDV Bale
Crouch

There are three problems with this. The first is that we become vulnerable to counter-attacks because we only have two dedicated defenders. The second is that Hutton and BAE don't contribute enough going forward, they are not good enough as attacking players. The third is that we don't get enough bodies in the box.

Hence, here are some alternatives:

1) The 4-4-2 with Bale as LB and a destroyer in midfield

Gomes

Hutton Dawson King Bale

Lennon-Palacios-Huddlestone-Modric

VDV Crouch

When we attack, this is will look like this:

Dawson King

Palacios

Hutton Huddlestone Modric

Lennon Bale

VDV Crouch

The main elements are: Palacios holding and almost part of the defensive trio, Modric drifting out towards the left and Bale becoming more a LW than a LB. In reality, this is a 3-5-2 with a libero/sweeper.

2) The 3-5-2 VDV in midfield

This is a 4-4-2 with a defensive-minded RB and a regular CM. On paper, it would look like this:

Corluka Dawson King Bale

Lennon VDV Huddlestone Modric

Crouch Defoe

In reality, when we attack, it would look like this:

Corluka Dawson King

Huddlestone Modric

Lennon VDV Bale

Crouch Defoe

Corluka can be replaced with Hutton, but I choose Corluka because he is a stronger defender than Hutton and comfortable in CB as well. In this formation, Corluka the RB is a RB/CB and King the CB will have to cover towards the left as well, with Bale further up the pitch.

I strongly prefer alternative 2), for the following reasons:

- With three dedicated defenders we have more defensive security
- All 7 players contributing going forward are skillfull on the ball, most of them also with reasonable pace. The problem with Hutton/BAE going forward for me is that they sometimes slow down the play a bit - Hutton in particular.
- All 7 players going forward can score. BAE cannot. Hutton can rarely (I think he's been lucky this year)
- We get more players in the box. If we have to make us of the long ball towards Crouch then Defoe, VDV, Lennon and Bale will all be around him to get the second ball, while Modric and Huddleston are nearby to pick up whatever goes backwards.

Conclusion: Bale at LB with two strikers in addition to VDV and a defensive-minded RB the key to win games at home to lesser opposition. It provides good cover against counter-attacks (remember, Huddlestone is also a good defensive player in CM while he contributes forward at the same time) and plenty of able finishers and players that can either provide the sublime final pass (Hudd, Modders, VDV) or beat a defender or two (Bale/Lennon in particular, but also Defoe, Modders, VDV).

Against all other opposition I'm happy with the 4-4-2 we're normally playing..

Thoughts?

 

[Adam456]

This seems to be a very long post to suggest playing Bale at LB

This was debated absolutely ad nauseum this year (the LB camp's main argument was that he needed to run from deep to build up speed) but the debate seems to have dried up recently

 

[Benspur]

To be honest I think that the last obstical is for our injuries to disapear so our defenders and midfield can be fit and for us to buy a top top striker in Jan.

 

[WhiteHart4Ever]

This seems to be a very long post to suggest playing Bale at LB

This was debated absolutely ad nauseum this year (the LB camp's main argument was that he needed to run from deep to build up speed) but the debate seems to have dried up recently

Well, while it does argue to not have anyone behind Bale, but that the main defensive duties will be covered by three defenders (and Huddlestone/Sandro/Palacios). So, unless we call it by it's name and say it's a suggestion to play 3-5-2 at home then, yes, it suggests Bale at LB but ONLY at home and ONLY against opposition that is likely to park the bus in front of their goal. However, it also suggests to play with two strikers + VDV, and to limit the offensive contributions of the RB (if we still call it a 4-4-2)...

 

[spudtrader]

nah i gotta say i like the thought of playing bale LB; not because it would suit him better, because it would suit the team better. He definitely gets forward more often and far more effectively than BAE.

Obviously only against these smash and grab teams you mention.

 

[ShelfSide18]

I certainly think that Bale coming from deeper is something we shouldn't rule out, and another string to our very impressive bow. Certainly the very fact that you can't double mark a full back means that a left sided midfielder drifting infield could expose Bale running at a more exposed back line, in theory. It's worth considering.

I do think though, that the main problem we have when we come across these teams is more of a mental nature - that ruthless killer instinct, even when a team has made a hard day of it for you, the best teams just get it done by any means possible.

 

[gibbs131]

I think BAE and Bale have a great understanding.

I also think some howler passes are clouding some peoples opinions of BAE. BAE knows when to spray those balls into space for Bale.

 

[Adam456]

Well, while it does argue to not have anyone behind Bale, but that the main defensive duties will be covered by three defenders (and Huddlestone/Sandro/Palacios). So, unless we call it by it's name and say it's a suggestion to play 3-5-2 at home then, yes, it suggests Bale at LB but ONLY at home and ONLY against opposition that is likely to park the bus in front of their goal. However, it also suggests to play with two strikers + VDV, and to limit the offensive contributions of the RB (if we still call it a 4-4-2)...

Fair enough but the last time it was tried was the 1-0 loss at home to bottom of the table Wet Spam. As I remember and was pointed out repeatedly by myself and others, Bale was blunted from going forward due to defensive duties but then when he did he was AWOL for 3 attacks in less than 10 mins - the second of which was very close to a goal and third that was very definitely a goal.

Same thing happened at the end of last season - most classically against ManUre

 

[mil1lion]

I think Bale has to stay where he is. He's like a wide left striker now and has 9 goals to show for it. VDV is scoring goals in the hole. Lennon is really behind in this department. We've missed Defoe up top though. Even though last season we still struggled in these games when Defoe was up top, we didn't have a bang in form Bale until January (incidently we lost fewer of those type of games) and we didn't have a goalscoring central attacking midfielder like VDV/Gerrard/Fabregas/Lampard.

We now have serious goal threats from wide left and central attacking midfield. Its all about having a number of matchwinners in various positions. We're much closer to that now. We just need Lennon and Modric to chip in with a few more goals and a more consistent striker than Defoe.

 

[WhiteHart4Ever]

I think Bale has to stay where he is. He's like a wide left striker now and has 9 goals to show for it. VDV is scoring goals in the hole. Lennon is really behind in this department. We've missed Defoe up top though. Even though last season we still struggled in these games when Defoe was up top, we didn't have a bang in form Bale until January (incidently we lost fewer of those type of games) and we didn't have a goalscoring central attacking midfielder like VDV/Gerrard/Fabregas/Lampard.

We now have serious goal threats from wide left and central attacking midfield. Its all about having a number of matchwinners in various positions. We're much closer to that now. We just need Lennon and Modric to chip in with a few more goals and a more consistent striker than Defoe.

All your points are valid. However, having read all the comments I think I'll change my argument a bit. First of all, it's not about moving Bale. It's about dropping BAE and Hutton for an extra central defender and an extra striker. Because our problem against these teams is not only that we dont score, it's that they score as well. So, while my suggestion would look like a 4-4-2 with Bale as LB on paper - I guess - this is what I'm really looking for:

Gomes

Kaboul Dawson King

Lennon Hudd Modric Bale

VDV

Crouch Defoe

So, defensive security with three defenders against counter-attacks. And an extra man up front.

 

[Dan Ashcroft]

Think we are slowly moving to a 4-2-3-1 and the sooner we get there the better:

Huddlestone - Modric

Lennon - vdV - Bale

---------New

 

[sparx100]

I think BAE and Bale have a great understanding.

I also think some howler passes are clouding some peoples opinions of BAE. BAE knows when to spray those balls into space for Bale.

This.......

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

Nice ideas, WhiteHart4Ever; the thrust being, if I understand correctly, that we can employ a seven man attack to break down those obdurate W-teams. Worth a try!