Comollis' signings.

[mackay59]

When you look at that list it's unbelievable that he's lasted as long as he has.

Levy must look at that and wonder what he's been spending his money on, and for someone who is pretty shrewd with his cash I'm amazed he's kept giving it to DC.

There's no doubt in my mind that DC needs to go. I'm just not sure that it'll make that much positive difference.

well you see its pretty simple really - comolli has not made the decision to buy those players - its been levy, ramos/jol and comolli so they cant/wont sack just one of them for that particular reason.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

True, maybe not such a "bad buy", but not a bargain as things didn't work out in the end. This can't be blamed on Comilli though, as he wasn't to know that mido wouldn't be used or come good in the end I suppose.

Cost = 4m
Goals = plenty
Sold to Boro = 7m

If 3m or 75% profit (in itself evidence that people who know the game more than me or you - even if that is Gareth Southgate - rate him) is something not working out (however fat and unmotivated he may have been in your (and my, to be fair) eyes), then it's no wonder you don't rate Comolli. Perhaps you should reexamine your expectations.

 

[thebenjamin]

Is that what Comolli or the club promised? I found this article on the BBC saying he wants to bring in good young English players [e.g. Bentley, Rose, Parrett, Bostock] and also sign foreign talent [e.g. Berbatov, Modric, Gomes, GDS, Corluka]. I also found this saying that he would work on the acadamy and this listing his role at the club:

Main Responsibilities:

-To oversee the recruitment of the coaching staff and to advise the Board on the matter.
-In charge of senior and youth scouting and development of a new scouting network (main First Team signings: Zoumana Camara, Didier Zokora, Frederic Pïquionne, Damien Perquis).
-To oversee the development of the Youth Academy both in terms of infrastructure and personnel.
-Involved in the players transactions (deals and contracts) with the Chairman and the managing director.
-In charge of all negotiations concerning youth players with parents, agents and clubs (i.e contracts, signing fees, compensation fees).
-Development of partnerships, locals, nationals and internationals (3 partnerships signed with amateur clubs from the St Etienne area, 1 signed with a 2nd division club, projects of youth academies in Guinea and Brazil)
-Use of international network made of scouts, sporting directors, managing directors, chairmen, agents...

I presume by Arsenal model you mean the work on the acadamy but this kind of thing takes time to setup and it's a while before prospects start coing through the acadamy. It's not something that can be done overnight otherwise every club would have done it. The are also a lot of aspects in which we aren't in a position to judge how well he is doing, such as the the infrastructure of the acadamy.

Good points mate. But as Daniel Levy said when Comolli joined:

"Damien has a long and impressive track record of scouting and signing many talented and successful youth and senior players."

I don't think anyone can deny that a large part of the reason we signed Damien was because we thought we were getting the inside track on Wenger's scouting and signing methods? IE signing unknown players for little money who go on to be stars. This is the holy grail for any chairman and this is what Danny wanted (who can blame him?).

I think if you told Daniel Levy that three years later we'd be changing almost the entire squad, most of the players signed under his new SD were overpriced flops, some of whom we simply cannot offload, and that in particular the players bought from Damien's previous home, the French league, were absolutely dire, we would've had a different appointment from the one we got.

Man that's a lot of commas.

 

[WhiteStripe]

Cost = 4m
Goals = plenty
Sold to Boro = 7m

If 3m or 75% profit (in itself evidence that people who know the game more than me or you - even if that is Gareth Southgate - rate him) is something not working out (however fat and unmotivated he may have been in your (and my, to be fair) eyes), then it's no wonder you don't rate Comolli. Perhaps you should reexamine your expectations.

My expectations of Comolli are not based on Mido whatsoever. If I were in the same position, I would have probably signed Mido based on what he had shown in the beginning part of his 18 month loan. My judgement of Mido as a miss is based on how effective he was after his permanent signing, and I do not hold Comolli responsible for that 1 bit.

My expectations are based on consolidating 2 x 5th placed finishes by making sure we have the correct manager and bring in a suitable amount of "successful" players into the team. I was never one of the dillusioned fans that thought we were going to walk into the top 4, i agreed with Jol that we needed to continue to aim for UEFA cup qualification to the league as a platform to build for the future.

Comolli (and levy to an extent) have made all the final decisions when it comes to personel, and frankly, it is not good enough. We have made out WORST EVER start to a season, I'll repeat that, WORST EVER. After our 2 BEST EVER premiership finishes. again, its not just a bad start, it is our WORST START.

 

[Hoowl]

Comolli (and levy to an extent) have made all the final decisions when it comes to personel, and frankly, it is not good enough. We have made out WORST EVER start to a season, I'll repeat that, WORST EVER. After our 2 BEST EVER premiership finishes. again, its not just a bad start, it is our WORST START.

I imagine none of us believe we have the worst squad in the premiership. I think we have a squad of players that may be capable of getting into the top six and is almost certainly capable of getting more than 1 point in the Home games against Sunderland, Wigan and Hull. Our immediate problems lie with the performance of Ramos and the players, almost all of whom we we're happy to have signed and have shown they can do much better than they are at present.

 

[brasil_spur]

EekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEekEek

I'm not saying that Zokora was the best buy ever, but you'd struggle to get anyone of his quality and versatility for that price these days. He's an extremely useful squad player, it's because everyone thought he would replace Carrick that we built him up beyond what he is.

Was Mido such a bad buy?

We bought him off the back fo a season where his goals got us to within 1 game of 4th place. He cost about £4m.

I thought he was an absolute bargain.

Holy shit i'm about to agree with Kendall - perhaps this is a sign that hell's about to freeze over or better that Spurs might start winning again! Anyway back on point, Mido was a quality buy, we had a very good couple of seasons with him, he cost peanuts and we sold him on to Boro for a profit.

 

[SpurSince57]

So are you happy with the player trading before Ramos's arrival? Kaboul Bent Boateng Zokora Taarabt Mido Ghaly Murphy etc.

We finished 5th because of a good midfield and sold the key players.

Having been bottom half all season we then finished 5th because of Keane and Berbatov's goals. So we sold them and got rid of the coach and Comolli brought in his man.

If Comolli has no accountability for player trading, or the coach, or the gaping holes in the squad EVERY SEASON, or the team's results, what is the point of him?

Honestly mate, I respect your views but if you think the player trading by our club over then last 3 years has been anything short of scandalous, then we see things very differently indeed.

It is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for Tottenham Hotspur.

No, I wasn't, but since I don't know what constraints were put upon Comolli and Jol in regard to player signings, particularly in the matter of the experienced CB, I don't know where to point the finger.

In any case, for a million Ghaly was hardly a disaster, and could have developed into a very useful squad player; in 2005-2006, pre-ANC, anyway, Mido was a very useful player indeed, and his contribution in goals and assists compared very well with Berbatov's the following—as insurance for Berbatov turning out to be a flop he was a sensible buy, and we turned a handy profit; £15.5m for Bent was over the odds, but if we'd succeeded in offloading Defoe that summer his and Mido's fees would have more or less cancelled it out; Boateng—Sevilla wanted him too; Zokora—hardly anyone thought he wasn't a good signing at the time; Kaboul—maybe we should have signed Curtis Davies for the same price and complained about him; Taarabt—anyone think he isn't an extremely talented player?

Was anyone complaining about this summer's signings before the season started? No, they weren't. If Pavlyuchenko's cup-tied for Europe Ramos has only himself to blame—he would, surely, have noticed that Spartak got thumped by Kyiv in the first leg of their qualifier, and realised what that meant?

Oh, I blame Comolli for a lot, but I blame Ramos at least equally, if not more. On current evidence the only magic Juande appears to have woven is a smoke-and-mirrors trick that persuaded everyone he actually knew what he was doing.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Leaving last summer aside, it seems to me that this year Comolli and Levy have been pursuing players Ramos either specifically wanted or at the very least was entirely happy with. Does anyone seriously believe it was their idea to dismantle the squad?

Ramos has been signed what amounts to a whole new squad. The fact that he doesn't appear to be able to get it to play as a coherent unit is hardly Comolli's fault.

I don't think they are not playing as a coherent unit al over the pitch. We have dominated possession in all but one game - Chelsea. We are just very poor up front. The one area where Comolli actually confessed to failing in on the official site.

How was it inadequate? It achieved two fifth places, did it not? It was, I understand, fit to challenge for a top four spot last summer.

Forget the players. There's one disastrous signing above all that he's responsible for, and that's Ramos. So, yes, I'd demand accountability on that score.

I think it is way to early, and for the above reason, to decide if Ramos was a mistake. If we get in a couple of strikers and we still fail as a team then questions will rightly be asked. But instead of jumping on the sack Ramos bandwaggon why not first ask yourself what he is doing in games that is so wrong. Because most games this season I couldn't grumble with the team selection, tactics or effort. So if that's the case what are you seeing Ramos do wrong. You say he's getting it wrong but how do you see himgetting it wrong ? Bent was signed before he got here, and I'm sure he didn't ask for Campbell. And he sure as shit didn't want Keane and Berbatov to go without ready replacements.

Is that what Comolli or the club promised? I found this article on the BBC saying he wants to bring in good young English players [e.g. Bentley, Rose, Parrett, Bostock] and also sign foreign talent [e.g. Berbatov, Modric, Gomes, GDS, Corluka]. I also found this saying that he would work on the acadamy and this listing his role at the club:

Main Responsibilities:

-To oversee the recruitment of the coaching staff and to advise the Board on the matter.
-In charge of senior and youth scouting and development of a new scouting network (main First Team signings: Zoumana Camara, Didier Zokora, Frederic Pïquionne, Damien Perquis).
-To oversee the development of the Youth Academy both in terms of infrastructure and personnel.
-Involved in the players transactions (deals and contracts) with the Chairman and the managing director.
-In charge of all negotiations concerning youth players with parents, agents and clubs (i.e contracts, signing fees, compensation fees).
-Development of partnerships, locals, nationals and internationals (3 partnerships signed with amateur clubs from the St Etienne area, 1 signed with a 2nd division club, projects of youth academies in Guinea and Brazil)
-Use of international network made of scouts, sporting directors, managing directors, chairmen, agents...

I presume by Arsenal model you mean the work on the acadamy but this kind of thing takes time to setup and it's a while before prospects start coing through the acadamy. It's not something that can be done overnight otherwise every club would have done it. The are also a lot of aspects in which we aren't in a position to judge how well he is doing, such as the the infrastructure of the acadamy.

Some very valid points in there.

In this article it says.....

Played a role in Arsenal signing Thierry Henry, Robert Pires and Robin van Persie....

thats like me saying i played a role in helping Spurs achieve 2 top 5 finishes and winning the Carling Cup. I did, I was there, but come on. That is complete horse shit!

Well no it's not really, because you haven't got a clue what role Comolli played in those players signimg for arsenal whereas we know that all you did was sing a bit and clap.




This is a really interesting debate. I strongly believe in the DOF system. I have more often than not defended the rationality of Comolli's signings. But was really baffled by his wilingness to sign off on the Bent deal. Even if Jol was screaming for him Comolli should not have sanctioned it. But how do we know that he didn't caution against it ? And if we blame him for Bent then we must credit him for Berbatov, Modric, Hutton, Woodgate, Gomes to a certain degree also. Not in the "he discovered them" way but in the "he must have watched, reported, researched background, maybe negotiated and sold the club to them" kind of way.


Then you have the whole question of him having to work within certain parametres inevitably laid down by levy. Again these are perfectly understandable parametres as we must be run sustainably.

And Hoowl raises some very valid points too with regards to us perhaps not seeing the fruits of various labours yet.

I also think that Joey's comparison with Monchi at Sevilla is also a bit harsh as he doesn't throw in any of the other many DOF's in europe who possibly have been less successful or competant than Comolli. And I'm not sure how long it took Monchi to perfect his art. Was he shit hot from the get go ? Did he not take a few years to master his craft ? If so how long ? Will Comolli not get better ?


I think my opinion at the moment has reached the "Jol" stage. I have been able to mitigate many of Comolli's mistakes/failings up to now (just as I did with Jol for so long). But there comes a point where you have to say if there is a better candidate out there - and apart from Monchi I couldn't think of one, maybe people like Joey might - then maybe it's time to think about improving. But I wouldn't rush into it willy nilly. It is far harder to find someone with the skillset needed for a successfull DOF than a manager. As even Joey has acknowledged.

 

[AngerManagement]

Im not sure comparing the players brought in by their indivdual merit and cost/resale value tells the whole story.

What the management team should be judge on is their buying of the right players, by this I mean not how good they are on paper or should I say how good they are as an indivdual but how good they are for our team. (in terms of how they fit in to the system, other players, management style etc.)

This is where our transfer policy has, thus far (in recent times), fell short. We have bought players of much higher quality (on paper) then the likes of Villa have although what has happened there is they have bought the players they need to complement the other memebers of the squad and steadily build a stronger and competitive team/unit.

With this is because the wrong players have/have not been signed (which I would suggest to an extent seeing as we seem to have failed to sign players in key postions) or simply a failure of the coach to build a solid team out of the quality players at his disposal (a fair arguement in itself).

I think its a combination of the wrong players being signed, or atleast the right players not being signed and the delay in moulding what we do have into a unit (notice I say delay rather then failure )

 

[kali]

I think Commoli also bought in Dean Parrett

 

[thebenjamin]

Was anyone complaining about this summer's signings before the season started?

Yes, I was getting flamed on here all summer for being negative and saying we were in big trouble.

Once again, we signed the wrong players, at the wrong time, in the wrong positions, as we have done every window since Comolli has been at the club (with the possible exception of last Jan if we just pretend Gilberto didn't happen and that we didn't pay £2.2M for him when we could've got him free 4 months later).

With Comolli it's not just about the players we did sign, but more about the ones we didn't. IE No spine. No leaders. No experience. No strength... blah blah blah ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

 

[DoublePivot]

Yes, I was getting flamed on here all summer for being negative and saying we were in big trouble.

Once again, we signed the wrong players, at the wrong time, in the wrong positions, as we have done every window since Comolli has been at the club (with the possible exception of last Jan if we just pretend Gilberto didn't happen and that we didn't pay £2.2M for him when we could've got him free 4 months later).

With Comolli it's not just about the players we did sign, but more about the ones we didn't. IE No spine. No leaders. No experience. No strength.

Same boat. I quit the site for a month because I was getting hammered (neg reps, fuck offs, bans) for not drinking the kool-aid. I've always maintained that Comolli hasn't built a team but an FM squad. And I've hated the douche bag, since day one.

 

[WhiteStripe]

Well no it's not really, because you haven't got a clue what role Comolli played in those players signimg for arsenal whereas we know that all you did was sing a bit and clap.

True, but I have, from comments heard/read in the past formed the opinion, rightly or wrongly, that Comolli was not all that instrumental in the signings of Arsenals most successful players.

This is a really interesting debate. I strongly believe in the DOF system. I have more often than not defended the rationality of Comolli's signings. But was really baffled by his wilingness to sign off on the Bent deal. Even if Jol was screaming for him Comolli should not have sanctioned it. But how do we know that he didn't caution against it ? And if we blame him for Bent then we must credit him for Berbatov, Modric, Hutton, Woodgate, Gomes to a certain degree also. Not in the "he discovered them" way but in the "he must have watched, reported, researched background, maybe negotiated and sold the club to them" kind of way.

Credit where credit is due, yes, Comolli has managed to broker deals for some excellent players, even if some are not showing it at the moment.

It is far harder to find someone with the skillset needed for a successfull DOF than a manager. As even Joey has acknowledged.

I don't necessarily agree, I think both are hard to find, you don't get a Wenger or Ferguson come around every day. The problem is finding 2 people who can work together. Ok, so maybe the judgement of the Ramos Comolli partnership is premature, but what do we have to go on? The current situation is what, and its clearly miles short of acceptable. I believe if we still had Arnesen and Jol, then we would be in a better situation than with Comolli and Ramos, as they appeared to gel better than the current pairing, but hey, thats just my opinion based on speculation, not fact.

 

[thebenjamin]

Same boat. I quit the site for a month because I was getting hammered (neg reps, fuck offs, bans) for not drinking the kool-aid. I've always maintained that Comolli hasn't built a team but an FM squad. And I've hated the douche bag, since day one.

The thing is, it's clear to everyone who watches Spurs what the problems are. And yet, season after season, the club studiously ignores the problem areas, instead creating new ones. It should be heartening that people still have faith in these cretins, but why they expect them to suddenly start building the squad properly after years of hard evidence proving they can't / won't, is beyond me.

Ramos I kind of get because he's had success before. Comolli was one of Wenger's scouts and then SD at St Etienne for 1 season. What an amazing CV.

:duh:

 

[WhiteStripe]

just heard an interesting stat last night.....
....In four years, Tottenhams' turnover of players (in and out) is......wait for it.......


84

mg:mg:mg:mg:

 

[SpurSince57]

I don't think they are not playing as a coherent unit al over the pitch. We have dominated possession in all but one game - Chelsea. We are just very poor up front. The one area where Comolli actually confessed to failing in on the official site.


I think it is way to early, and for the above reason, to decide if Ramos was a mistake. If we get in a couple of strikers and we still fail as a team then questions will rightly be asked. But instead of jumping on the sack Ramos bandwaggon why not first ask yourself what he is doing in games that is so wrong. Because most games this season I couldn't grumble with the team selection, tactics or effort. So if that's the case what are you seeing Ramos do wrong. You say he's getting it wrong but how do you see himgetting it wrong ? Bent was signed before he got here, and I'm sure he didn't ask for Campbell. And he sure as shit didn't want Keane and Berbatov to go without ready replacements.

Yes, we've had plenty of possession.

I've asked myself what he's done so wrong. And the answer I get is, 24 points from 26 games in a calendar year.

 

[guy]

Has anyone else noticed diego milito has scored 5 in 4 for genoa so far?

just typical :bang:

 

[SpurSince57]

Doesn't necessarily follow that he'd have done it for us. But yes, we could almost certainly have signed him, and in time for the start of the season, too.